Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse

[kirku 1,338]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Nations League is not a friendly, it’s a full tournament. You do understand that, and that we had the joy of being relegated. Great stuff.

Hats off to you if you actually believe the Nations League is a "full tournament". A marketeers dream..

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Hats off to you if you actually believe the Nations League is a "full tournament". A marketeers dream..

Well hats off to you for thinking it’s impressive beating sides like Wales and Iran. 

[kirku 1,338]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

You obviously don’t spend any of your hard earned following England, you’d not be laughing if you did. They’ve been crap this year, one decent World Cup game which we didn’t even win doesn’t make up for that.

1 decent World Cup game?

England scored 12 goals across 3/4 other games..

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

1 decent World Cup game?

England scored 12 goals across 3/4 other games..

Christ, you’re easily pleased. England beat the 18th, 19th and 20th ranked sides and got lucky against the 16th. And lost to the only good side we played.   That’s stunning. 

[kirku 1,338]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well hats off to you for thinking it’s impressive beating sides like Wales and Iran. 

Senegal, Wales and Iran are ranked 18th, 19th and 20th in the world.

It's quite hard to claim on the one hand that a single Nations League result is indicative of anything (and a "full tournament") while decrying the quality of opponents at the World Cup.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Senegal, Wales and Iran are ranked 18th, 19th and 20th in the world.

It's quite hard to claim on the one hand that a single Nations League result is indicative of anything (and a "full tournament") while decrying the quality of opponents at the World Cup.

 

Oh right, you don’t like facts that counter your ‘argument’.  The fact that we had an astonishingly favourable draw clearly goes over your head.

And what ‘single nations league result’? We were doubled by the mighty Hungary, and were relegated  

 

 

 

 

 

[kirku 1,338]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Christ, you’re easily pleased. England beat the 18th, 19th and 20th ranked sides and got lucky against the 16th. And lost to the only good side we played.   That’s stunning. 

This is currently your argument:

England lost to the 36th ranked team in a glorified friendly, England are rubbish.

England scored 12 goals in 3 games against teams in the top 20, England are rubbish.

Italy didn't qualify, Germany got dumped out at the group stages, Spain and Brazil got knocked out by much smaller sides yet you're upset that England largely outplayed the reigning champions and were a missed penalty away from taking the game into extra time?

Forget being easily pleased, you need to get some context.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Unlike the people in charge at NCFC he has a young vibrant group playing attractive football. Glad he is staying.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

Just now, kirku said:

This is currently your argument:

England lost to the 36th ranked team in a glorified friendly, England are rubbish.

England scored 12 goals in 3 games against teams in the top 20, England are rubbish.

Italy didn't qualify, Germany got dumped out at the group stages, Spain and Brazil got knocked out by much smaller sides yet you're upset that England largely outplayed the reigning champions and were a missed penalty away from taking the game into extra time?

Forget being easily pleased, you need to get some context.

Nope, wrong again. Well Done for missing the point.

[kirku 1,338]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Oh right, you don’t like facts that counter your ‘argument’.  The fact that we had an astonishingly favourable draw clearly goes over your head.

And what ‘single nations league result’? We were doubled by the mighty Hungary, and were relegated  

My first post in this thread was about 54 years of England results at major tournaments. Yours was about a single result in a friendly. It's beyond hilarious that you're now claiming the above.

Please quantify your claim that England had an "astonishingly favourable draw". This should be fun.

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

At least we don't have to watch England for another year and a half.

[Well b back 3,274]

5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

You obviously don’t spend any of your hard earned following England, you’d not be laughing if you did. They’ve been crap this year, one decent World Cup game which we didn’t even win doesn’t make up for that.

We spend our money travelling all over the world watching England ( my sons far more than me ). Concentrating on my sons ( I was born in 1960 so can’t remember the World Cup ) they have had far more excitement under Southgate than I had the previous 40 years or so. As a family we have been in the 3 most amazing atmosphere games I have been to ( Germany, Denmark and Italy ). 
Southgate knows how to play the major tournaments, and brings kids through from under18 - Under 21’s. Had it not been for the reforms Southgate made, I wonder how many of Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Mount, to name but a few would have made it.

Tournament football is about winning, not playing attractive football and losing Ala Spain and the current German team. Who do you think could do better ( at winning games ), maybe Eddie Howe, who 90% on here reckon is s***, or maybe Thomas Tuchel who will be twice as boring as Southgate. Should we not win the Euros then that’s the time to move on, clearly the players think he’s the man for the job.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

My first post in this thread was about 54 years of England results at major tournaments. Yours was about a single result in a friendly. It's beyond hilarious that you're now claiming the above.

Please quantify your claim that England had an "astonishingly favourable draw". This should be fun.

You obviously can’t read - only playing sides ranked 16th - 20th to reach the last 8 is pretty fortuitous in most people’s minds, clearly not yours.

And, again, we were doubled by Hungary. That isn’t one result. Counting is perhaps not your forte.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

We spend our money travelling all over the world watching England ( my sons far more than me ). Concentrating on my sons ( I was born in 1960 so can’t remember the World Cup ) they have had far more excitement under Southgate than I had the previous 40 years or so. As a family we have been in the 3 most amazing atmosphere games I have been to ( Germany, Denmark and Italy ). 
Southgate knows how to play the major tournaments, and brings kids through from under18 - Under 21’s. Had it not been for the reforms Southgate made, I wonder how many of Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Mount, to name but a few would have made it.

Tournament football is about winning, not playing attractive football and losing Ala Spain and the current German team. Who do you think could do better ( at winning games ), maybe Eddie Howe, who 90% on here reckon is s***, or maybe Thomas Tuchel who will be twice as boring as Southgate. Should we not win the Euros then that’s the time to move on, clearly the players think he’s the man for the job.

Ah, right - I wasn’t aware of the idea that it’s ok to write off dreadful games as irrelevant and only go with the ok ones. 

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

The stupid thing here is I’m not particularly pro or anti Southgate - it’s just astonishing how it’s so easily forgotten how dreadful we were pre the World Cup.  Beating sides we shouldn’t come close to losing against simply isn’t that impressive to me - I’d hope we could do better, but seems we can’t. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Well b back 3,274]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Ah, right - I wasn’t aware of the idea that it’s ok to write off dreadful games as irrelevant and only go with the ok ones. 

So do you go to Norwich friendlies and consider the result or the performance important ? We often go to Wembley and leave twenty minutes early just to get our fan points. Our last 5 tournaments under Southgate have resulted in a SF, a S/F a Final a relegation and a 1/4 final. We have also qualified for these tournaments with ease.

My main point was who would you replace him with, and who would the players really want to play for ? Can you see most of them wanting to play under somebody like Tuchel ?

 

[kirku 1,338]

26 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

You obviously can’t read - only playing sides ranked 16th - 20th to reach the last 8 is pretty fortuitous in most people’s minds, clearly not yours.

And, again, we were doubled by Hungary. That isn’t one result. Counting is perhaps not your forte.

How many times are you going to say "we were doubled by Hungary"? I think we understand already this incredible importance you put on the highly prestigious Nations League.

As I've said previously, you seemingly have a poor understanding of how international football works. England's group was the only one where all the teams were inside the top 20.

• France: Australia (38th), Tunisia (30th), Denmark (10th), Poland (26th), England (5th) and Morocco (22nd)
• Argentina: Saudi (51st), Mexico (13th), Poland (26th), Australia (38th), Netherlands (8th) Croatia (12th)
• Spain: Germany (11th), Costa Rica (31st), Japan (24th), Morocco (22nd).
• Brazil: Serbia (21st), Switzerland (15th), Cameroon (43rd), South Korea (28th), Croatia (12th).

So "only playing sides ranked 16th - 20th" is "fortuitous in most people's minds" - only if they don't understand the context very well, don't understand group seeding, or think that drawing France in the QFs qualifies as good luck.

Edited December 18, 2022 by kirku

[kirku 1,338]

23 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

The stupid thing here is I’m not particularly pro or anti Southgate - it’s just astonishing how it’s so easily forgotten how dreadful we were pre the World Cup.  Beating sides we shouldn’t come close to losing against simply isn’t that impressive to me - I’d hope we could do better, but seems we can’t. 

You have an extremely skewed vision of what England's major tournament performances have been throughout history, forgetting previous struggles to even qualify for said tournaments, and an unrealistic view on the expected quality of opponent that teams tend to draw at World Cups (as evidenced by my most recent post).

Be glad you're not Spanish, Brazilian, German, Italian, or Belgian - you'd be really upset..

Edited December 18, 2022 by kirku

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

Just now, kirku said:

You have an extremely skewed vision of what England's major tournament performances have been throughout history, forgetting previous struggles to even qualify for said tournaments, and an unrealistic view on the expected quality of opponent that teams tend to draw at World Cups (as evidenced by my most recent post).

Wrong again.  You really do presume a lot.  I’m fully aware of tournaments missed, and the various defeats along the way. But the relevance for the here and now is rather questionable. It’s a different era and with more teams so easier to qualify, for starters.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

9 minutes ago, kirku said:

How many times are you going to say "we were doubled by Hungary"? I think we understand already this incredible importance you put on the highly prestigious Nations League.

As I've said previously, you seemingly have a poor understanding of how international football works. England's group was the only one where all the teams were inside the top 20.

• France: Australia (38th), Tunisia (30th), Denmark (10th), Poland (26th), England (5th) and Morocco (22nd)
• Argentina: Saudi (51st), Mexico (13th), Poland (26th), Australia (38th), Netherlands (8th) Croatia (12th)
• Spain: Germany (11th), Costa Rica (31st), Japan (24th), Morocco (22nd).
• Brazil: Serbia (21st), Switzerland (15th), Cameroon (43rd), South Korea (28th), Croatia (12th).

So "only playing sides ranked 16th - 20th" is "fortuitous in most people's minds" - only if they don't understand the context very well or think that drawing France in the QFs qualifies as good luck.

Big deal, and after all that pointless typing, too.

We played no one inside the top 15 until we reached the the last 8.  You just carry on thinking we played all the top sides, I’m sure it pleases you somehow. 

[kirku 1,338]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Wrong again.  You really do presume a lot.  I’m fully aware of tournaments missed, and the various defeats along the way. But the relevance for the here and now is rather questionable. It’s a different era and with more teams so easier to qualify, for starters.

There's nothing to presume - it's all in your posts. There's very little factual content in them to engage with, unless we're talking about being "doubled", of course.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

15 minutes ago, Well b back said:

So do you go to Norwich friendlies and consider the result or the performance important ? We often go to Wembley and leave twenty minutes early just to get our fan points. Our last 5 tournaments under Southgate have resulted in a SF, a S/F a Final a relegation and a 1/4 final. We have also qualified for these tournaments with ease.

My main point was who would you replace him with, and who would the players really want to play for ? Can you see most of them wanting to play under somebody like Tuchel ?

 

My main point isn’t whether we’ve done ok under Southgate, as obviously we have. It’s more about whether we might do better with someone else, and actually win something.   I’m sure there must be options, unless you’re wedded to it being an Englishman, as then there aren’t so many. 

[kirku 1,338]

7 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Big deal, and after all that pointless typing, too.

We played no one inside the top 15 until we reached the the last 8.  You just carry on thinking we played all the top sides, I’m sure it pleases you somehow. 

 

48 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Oh right, you don’t like facts that counter your ‘argument’.  The fact that we had an astonishingly favourable draw clearly goes over your head.

I hope you have the self-awareness to realise how hilarious these two posts are in combination.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

11 minutes ago, kirku said:

There's nothing to presume - it's all in your posts. There's very little factual content in them to engage with, unless we're talking about being "doubled", of course

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

 

I hope you have the self-awareness to realise how hilarious these two posts are in combination.

You’re deluded.  You appear to think only your ‘facts’ are valid while dismissing others .  It’s an interesting concept, but wrong.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Well b back 3,274]

@Branston Pickle

You still haven’t said who you would replace him with, that would give us a better chance of winning the Euros in just 18 months time. We need to qualify as well so any new manager would not have the opportunity of trying out new systems. My other concern would be should a new manager come in what guarantee is there that players will want to play for them or under their system. There is also no chance of any of our up and coming youngsters being thrown in as any new manager would be terrified of losing. You can start planning now Southgate successor, which will probably be Eddie Howe.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

5 minutes ago, Well b back said:

@Branston Pickle

You still haven’t said who you would replace him with, that would give us a better chance of winning the Euros in just 18 months time. We need to qualify as well so any new manager would not have the opportunity of trying out new systems. My other concern would be should a new manager come in what guarantee is there that players will want to play for them or under their system. There is also no chance of any of our up and coming youngsters being thrown in as any new manager would be terrified of losing. You can start planning now Southgate successor, which will probably be Eddie Howe.

I wasn’t aware i was under any obligation to name someone - pay me a huge FA salary and I might!  I don’t actually like the assumption they have to be English, for starters. 

[kirku 1,338]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Ah right. so your facts are facts and mine - while also being facts - aren’t.  Well done. You must be very happy. 

 

You’re deluded.  

You've only said two factual things in this entire exchange:

• England lost to Hungary ("were doubled", repeated about 4 times)
• England played teams ranked in the top 20 and lost to France

The rest has been subjective guff that doesn't stand up to the slightest breeze of scrutiny, such as England's draw being "astonishingly fortuitous".

As for the second part, I knew it was too much to ask.

You've probably still got a huge chip on your shoulder from that time you spent recently defending Dean Smith - another one of your arguments which has made you look more than a little silly.

Edited December 18, 2022 by kirku

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

You've only said two factual things in this entire exchange:

• England lost to Hungary ("were doubled", repeated about 4 times)
• England played teams ranked in the top 20 and lost to France

The rest has been subjective guff that doesn't stand up to the slightest breeze of scrutiny, such as that England's draw was "astonishingly fortuitous".

As for the second part, I knew it was too much to ask.

You've probably still got a huge chip on your shoulder from that time you spent recently defending Dean Smith - another one of your arguments which has made you look more than a little silly.

Yawn. Are you really this utterly tedious?  You seem so set on ‘winning’ an argument which you can’t win, as it’s largely down to opinion.

And what the hell has Smith got to do with anything?  I’m perfectly entitled to have had a that he deserved to be given a chance.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[kirku 1,338]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Must be a different guy who saw us doubled by the mighty Hungary earlier this year.

 

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

We were doubled by the mighty Hungary, and were relegated 

 

55 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

And, again, we were doubled by Hungary.

 

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Yawn. Are you really this tedious?

I hope you have the self-awareness to realise how hilarious these posts are in combination.

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

 

 

 

I hope you have the self-awareness to realise how hilarious these posts are in combination.

Ah yes - I forgot you are the one who has to think he’s ‘won’ - it’s very strange and not something you can possibly do.  Sorry about that. 

….and me having to repeat things (ie facts that you don’t like) says more about you than me.  Deluded doesn’t come close.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Branston Pickle