Jury-riggball 22-23 - Smithball 23-24?

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

Not a flash German coach but is that just what we're going to have to deal with this season? 

Prior to Norwich Dean Smith's sides have been high energy pressing outfits. Bar 20 minutes here and there we have not seen that here. 

Most of our wingers, attacking midfielders and forwards are not designed for a dynamic pressing game. Interestingly a lot of these players are also out of contract next summer. I'd imagine most won't be reupped meaning we'll be able to sign players that fit our new profile. 

We'll be better next year, right?

 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Depends if Smith is the long term plan. 

If it is then be ready for a torrid time in the prem if we do get promotion. 

More likely 24/25 unless we fire Smith and start over again? Then it's 27/28

Here lies my "fire Smith now and build now" theory 

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

I would assume that the being a more physical and pressing side is something that Stuart Webber has decided is something we need to do now. So whether it's Smith or somebody else I would assume that's the type of manger we will have. 

 

[Mason 47 1,391]

Whilst I don't know if I'd make the point as severely, I can see a version of this being the truth. 

Precision Farkeball was glorious at Championship level but was A. Nothing special at PL level in an attacking sense and B. Lacking in defensive and athletic solidity. A wonderful dream but, ultimately, being an 8/10 in Sexy Attacking Flair won't outweigh 3s and 4s in the fundamentals.

As OP says, players assembled primarily under Farke are designed to operate as playmaker first and anything else second. Our time in the Prem recently demonstrated that you can't just have a team of playmakers floating about and compete, it isn't Fifa- you have to earn the right to play.

If you look to the Lambert side, there was plenty of grafters. Even the wingers like Bennett + Pilkington, even Hoolahan, were hard workers at the same time as playing a bit, some more than others. 

Sara, Gibbs, Ramsey, Nunez, Hayden all have high physical numbers. I don't think its by accident.

 

 

 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,574]

41 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Whilst I don't know if I'd make the point as severely, I can see a version of this being the truth. 

Precision Farkeball was glorious at Championship level but was A. Nothing special at PL level in an attacking sense and B. Lacking in defensive and athletic solidity. A wonderful dream but, ultimately, being an 8/10 in Sexy Attacking Flair won't outweigh 3s and 4s in the fundamentals.

As OP says, players assembled primarily under Farke are designed to operate as playmaker first and anything else second. Our time in the Prem recently demonstrated that you can't just have a team of playmakers floating about and compete, it isn't Fifa- you have to earn the right to play.

If you look to the Lambert side, there was plenty of grafters. Even the wingers like Bennett + Pilkington, even Hoolahan, were hard workers at the same time as playing a bit, some more than others. 

Sara, Gibbs, Ramsey, Nunez, Hayden all have high physical numbers. I don't think its by accident.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree with everything you say here. 

Speaking of Lambert, I can't remember anyone playing a midfield diamond since Lambert's Premier League season here, but I digress. 

 

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Completely agree with everything you say here. 

Speaking of Lambert, I can't remember anyone playing a midfield diamond since Lambert's Premier League season here, but I digress. 

 

I've not heard the interview but on the the Michael Bailey podcast it was commented that Smith's plan wasn't a diamond, it just kind of played like that and he was unhappy with it. He wanted the midfield to be a lot flatter. So yeah, I don't think a diamond be a part of Smith's side going forward.

[chicken 2,640]

2 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Whilst I don't know if I'd make the point as severely, I can see a version of this being the truth. 

Precision Farkeball was glorious at Championship level but was A. Nothing special at PL level in an attacking sense and B. Lacking in defensive and athletic solidity. A wonderful dream but, ultimately, being an 8/10 in Sexy Attacking Flair won't outweigh 3s and 4s in the fundamentals.

As OP says, players assembled primarily under Farke are designed to operate as playmaker first and anything else second. Our time in the Prem recently demonstrated that you can't just have a team of playmakers floating about and compete, it isn't Fifa- you have to earn the right to play.

If you look to the Lambert side, there was plenty of grafters. Even the wingers like Bennett + Pilkington, even Hoolahan, were hard workers at the same time as playing a bit, some more than others. 

Sara, Gibbs, Ramsey, Nunez, Hayden all have high physical numbers. I don't think its by accident.

Absolutely spot on. I would add that those players assembled by Farke to operate as "playmaker first" generally are not fantastic at that either IMHO. 

We're looking at Hernandez, Sinani, Dowell with Rashica, Placheta and Tzolis all loaned out. 

Now that isn't a slight on the recruitment or coaching, I think when you consider Stiepermann, Vrancic and Buendia also go into that pot and probably on form Leitner too. I think the reality is that it is much harder to find an affordable player that is as good going forward as Buendia than it is to find someone like a Bradley Johnson who played a season on the left and scored some cracking goals despite being seen as a more solidly defensive player.

Your correct with Lambert, I think it says a lot that Bennett became a right back and Lansbury, though only a loan, went from an attacking midfielder to holding. Surman was the same, typically playing wide or AM midfield and then moved to Bournemouth where he was played centrally and deep.

In reality, many fan's critique of Farke was "no plan B", we played one way and as such substitutions were generally like for like and towards the end of a game. It was his biggest criticism from the support base. Perhaps it's why last season he tried to change it all. Perhaps the proof was in the pudding of "no plan B" by failing to formulate one, getting the first win by reverting to 4-2-3-1.

The greats at mosts sports can do it all. Ali was a great because he could take the hits as well as give them. He had to. When against the best in sport, you have to 'box clever'.

[Mason 47 1,391]

25 minutes ago, chicken said:

Absolutely spot on. I would add that those players assembled by Farke to operate as "playmaker first" generally are not fantastic at that either IMHO. 

We're looking at Hernandez, Sinani, Dowell with Rashica, Placheta and Tzolis all loaned out

Individually maybe not, but certainly Dowell when played with Emi, Cantwell and Pukki looked perfectly at home. Sinani was a punt who has proven with Hudds he can do OK at this level, the others all really fall under what I class as 'attempted plan B' where we would attempt to use wingers (but never ever did this well)

With the dedicated system to enable our players to play, and played all together, it worked. Until we got a level up and found other teams were at least as good on the ball, but also faster, stronger and more disciplined- bad news.

I often asked this of posters last season, when they'd spit out the 'we've lost our identity' line. I can't say I feel the majority of Prem teams have a Farkesque identity, just generically good teams who can do most things to a high-ish level. And I think that is now the aim- if we are to progress.

[KeiranShikari 1,426]

Embracing this project only for it to come to light that the best man at the club is interviewing for a new job at Chelsea is some cosmic balance bull ****.

Edited October 12, 2022 by KeiranShikari