Tyrese Omotoye

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly. Apples and oranges. Stearman/Rudd are errors, a standing leg slipping is just bloody unlucky.

Plenty of goals are scored from errors - in fact you could argue most are scored from errors in some way. Some are just more blatant, like the Stearman/Rudd cases.

The Derby winner came from an error by one of our players - a simple three or four yard pass that went straight to a Derby player. The fact that it happened on the edge of the Derby penalty area doesn't make it any less of a crucial error that cost a goal. There are probably very few goals that don't have a defensive error somewhere in the build-up.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Derby winner came from an error by one of our players - a simple three or four yard pass that went straight to a Derby player. The fact that it happened on the edge of the Derby penalty area doesn't make it any less of a crucial error that cost a goal. There are probably very few goals that don't have a defensive error somewhere in the build-up.

Exactly. Some errors are far more crass than others, so saying we only scored from an error and dressing it up as a bad thing, which was what @CDMullins said, is a little bit moot.

Misplaced pass = error. Let your man run on = error. Mistime a jump = error. Fumble a bouncing skidder into your net = crass error. Relatively few goals are scored against settled defences (and Egil Olsen knew all about that as that was the prime rationale for him coining his long ball style of play with a wide target man to terrorise small full backs). Consider errors to be the result of pressure exerted during the game. Errors can be legislated for.

Losing the standing leg on a penalty is outside that. Doesn't happen very often at all.

[CDMullins 436]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly. Some errors are far more crass than others, so saying we only scored from an error and dressing it up as a bad thing, which was what @CDMullins said, is a little bit moot.

Misplaced pass = error. Let your man run on = error. Mistime a jump = error. Fumble a bouncing skidder into your net = crass error. Relatively few goals are scored against settled defences (and Egil Olsen knew all about that as that was the prime rationale for him coining his long ball style of play with a wide target man to terrorise small full backs). Consider errors to be the result of pressure exerted during the game. Errors can be legislated for.

Losing the standing leg on a penalty is outside that. Doesn't happen very often at all.

Lets be right,

Short back passes and GK's dropping the ball in the net dont happen very often at all either.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Lets be right,

Short back passes and GK's dropping the ball in the net dont happen very often at all either.

Errors happen all the time. Undercooked backpasses and goalie errors are far more frequent.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Derby winner came from an error by one of our players - a simple three or four yard pass that went straight to a Derby player. The fact that it happened on the edge of the Derby penalty area doesn't make it any less of a crucial error that cost a goal. There are probably very few goals that don't have a defensive error somewhere in the build-up.

I'm going to disagree.

A player who plays a short backpass that leaves an opposition striker one-on-one with the goalkeeper or a goalkeeper who drops one over his line have directly caused an opposition goal with their error.

A team who benefits from and opponent losing possession midway inside their own half (something which happens dozens of times a game) still has an awful amount of work to do, and the opponents still have many opportunities to stop them, which means that several other smaller errors also contributed to the goal.

[CDMullins 436]

29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Errors happen all the time. Undercooked backpasses and goalie errors are far more frequent.

Nonesense.

Underhit back passes that lead direcrtly to goals and GKs dropping the ball in the back of the net are not far more frequent.

[curious yellow 184]

Derby scored because we pushed too many players forward and got caught on the break. 

We have become too predictable, we think of our full backs as attackers. This is why we are having to rely on bad mistakes. 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Nonesense.

Underhit back passes that lead direcrtly to goals and GKs dropping the ball in the back of the net are not far more frequent.

Nonsense. Count the number of goalie errors in a season, then count the number of slips on penalties. On top of that, there are far more undercooked backpasses - they don't all have to lead to goals. When Idah scored his, he just took advantage of it.

Beckham, Terry, Pukki - about the only three slips on penalties I can vaguely remember in years as opposed to being a clean connection that was saved or off target. Put it in perspective, Pickford's made 5 errors leading to goals in the Premiership since the start of last season, and that's just one goalie in the Premiership. According to the Premiership stats last season, 47 goalie errors lead to goals.

I don't think you'll find any specific stats for penalties missed due to slipping when hitting it, but as a rule of thumb, you're generally looking at 70-75% of penalties going in.

If you were to compare to a total of missed penalties, I'd think you're about right. But missed as the standing leg gave way? That's very rare.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

6 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Lets be right,

Short back passes and GK's dropping the ball in the net dont happen very often at all either.

You're probably right about that, and not least because it certainly hasn't happened with us this season. If you mean our first goal against Preston, Rudd gets his positioning a bit wrong and makes a weak-fisted attempt to palm the ball away, so it goes behind him rather than past the post for a corner, but he certainly doesn't just drop it into the net. To do that he first have had to catch it and have control of it, and he never did.

In reality it was just kind of mistake you would expect a Championship keeper to make from time to time, rather than some bizarre fluke for us. Just as (according to posters who know more about football than I do) both the Preston goals came from similarly normal mistakes by Skipp.