can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="Indy"]Doesn''t the fact that the introduction of Bowkett & MacNally making a huge difference to our club not show that you should not be scared of change?Some on here are so fixed on our current owners that they can only see a negative outcome should they go.It''s always a risk but sometimes you need to take a risk or two.[/quote]Great points well made. Agree with bury too. I Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,207 Posted September 10, 2015 Yep op I bet they were all enthusing at the Palace with all the star names coming inS. Dobbie from Brighton - loaned to Blackpool appearances 1D. Gayle from Peterborough ( many reckoned just a couple of weeks ago not good enough for us appearanaces 8 + 15 subJ. Thomas - free agent - appearances 3J. Campana from Sevilla Loaned to Numberg appearances 4K. Phillips - sprightly youngster signed from Blackpool lol released 1/1/2014 appearances 0 but did come on as sub 4Elliot Grandin from Blackpool - Released 1/1/2014 appearances 0M. Chamakh from Arsenal 27 + 5 sub ( 5 goals lol )Neil Alexander from Rangers 0 appearancesF. Marange - from Bordeaux - released 1/1/2014 0 appearancesJ. Kebe from Reading - Loaned to Leeds 2 appearances + 4 subsJ. Hunt from Huddersfield 0 appearancesA. Mariappa from Reading 23 appearances B. Bannon from Aston Villa 13 appearances + 2 subA Guedioura from Forest 4 appearancesS. Dann from Blackburn 14 appearancesW. Hennesey - Wolves 1 appearanceJ. Ledley - Celtic 14 appearances ( 2 goals lol )Loans Puncheon, Jerome and Ince So tell us again where were they so ambitious ? If McNally had sanctioned this business would you be holding up in the same way as you are holding up the Palace chairman ? I think not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessingham Canary 99 Posted September 10, 2015 Some interesting points, especially around the introduction of McNally and Bowkett, that shows it doesn''t have to be revolution, and apologies for the cliche''s, but of course its about the continous evolution of our club, we have seen that in recent years, both at CR and at other clubs around us.Change is a challenge (apologies again) not a threat, but change guarantee''s nothing, so my view is whilst our board occasionally get it wrong, they get it right just that bit more often, i can live with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Bury Yellow"]Nutty, we all know that McNally and Bowkett are still with us don''t we (Yes yes you''re being facetious) My problem is/was that the dynamics changed during the period of the second year in the Prem. That''s my opinion and you''ve got yours buddy. I''m cool with that.[/quote] Did the dynamic change to spend so much money in that third season then? The most ambitious window in our history? And if so how has it changed since then?[/quote]Id say that losing one of the best managers we''ve had played a part. Especially with rumours rife of him not being backed. They had to invest especially with change of dynamics with the incoming manager.[/quote] I thought that was because the debt had to be paid off due to the negotiations by Bowkett a a few seasons earlier. You could almost say that it was through Bowkett that Lambert left. Although he had no choice at the time of the negotiations and it isn''t his fault that people who lauded him for that struggle to remember anything that happened last week let alone previous yerars. And the break down between those two was obvious to anyone who heard our chairman speak for months after Lambert left. That is until the lawyers advised him to stop exploding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="Well b back"]Yep op I bet they were all enthusing at the Palace with all the star names coming inS. Dobbie from Brighton - loaned to Blackpool appearances 1D. Gayle from Peterborough ( many reckoned just a couple of weeks ago not good enough for us appearanaces 8 + 15 subJ. Thomas - free agent - appearances 3J. Campana from Sevilla Loaned to Numberg appearances 4K. Phillips - sprightly youngster signed from Blackpool lol released 1/1/2014 appearances 0 but did come on as sub 4Elliot Grandin from Blackpool - Released 1/1/2014 appearances 0M. Chamakh from Arsenal 27 + 5 sub ( 5 goals lol )Neil Alexander from Rangers 0 appearancesF. Marange - from Bordeaux - released 1/1/2014 0 appearancesJ. Kebe from Reading - Loaned to Leeds 2 appearances + 4 subsJ. Hunt from Huddersfield 0 appearancesA. Mariappa from Reading 23 appearances B. Bannon from Aston Villa 13 appearances + 2 subA Guedioura from Forest 4 appearancesS. Dann from Blackburn 14 appearancesW. Hennesey - Wolves 1 appearanceJ. Ledley - Celtic 14 appearances ( 2 goals lol )Loans Puncheon, Jerome and Ince So tell us again where were they so ambitious ? If McNally had sanctioned this business would you be holding up in the same way as you are holding up the Palace chairman ? I think not[/quote]Probably not to dissimilar in stature to lambert a signings in the first year. I was asked what ambition was shown re money. More than we''ve spent in a season was the answer. I''m sure you''d have taken there finishing position in 13/14. Or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 Nutty your perfect for the OP. wanting to challenge where we are. Change perceptions. Not being careful what we wish for but more be careful what you settle for. the palace chairman talks about how change is uncomfortable for some. I think he''s bang on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,207 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Well b back"]Yep op I bet they were all enthusing at the Palace with all the star names coming inS. Dobbie from Brighton - loaned to Blackpool appearances 1D. Gayle from Peterborough ( many reckoned just a couple of weeks ago not good enough for us appearanaces 8 + 15 subJ. Thomas - free agent - appearances 3J. Campana from Sevilla Loaned to Numberg appearances 4K. Phillips - sprightly youngster signed from Blackpool lol released 1/1/2014 appearances 0 but did come on as sub 4Elliot Grandin from Blackpool - Released 1/1/2014 appearances 0M. Chamakh from Arsenal 27 + 5 sub ( 5 goals lol )Neil Alexander from Rangers 0 appearancesF. Marange - from Bordeaux - released 1/1/2014 0 appearancesJ. Kebe from Reading - Loaned to Leeds 2 appearances + 4 subsJ. Hunt from Huddersfield 0 appearancesA. Mariappa from Reading 23 appearances B. Bannon from Aston Villa 13 appearances + 2 subA Guedioura from Forest 4 appearancesS. Dann from Blackburn 14 appearancesW. Hennesey - Wolves 1 appearanceJ. Ledley - Celtic 14 appearances ( 2 goals lol )Loans Puncheon, Jerome and Ince So tell us again where were they so ambitious ? If McNally had sanctioned this business would you be holding up in the same way as you are holding up the Palace chairman ? I think not[/quote]Probably not to dissimilar in stature to lambert a signings in the first year. I was asked what ambition was shown re money. More than we''ve spent in a season was the answer. I''m sure you''d have taken there finishing position in 13/14. Or not?[/quote]They are in their 3rd season. Any team that stays in the prem for 2 seasons can move on. We are doing just as much as they did when we came up. In fact if you would have been at the first game you would have seen that had it not been for a certain Mr Hooper we would have beaten this huge club Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted September 10, 2015 Not the first time the OP has been envious of another club........http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun-forums/cs/forums/1654676/ShowPost.aspx[:)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 Shoulda woulda coulda eh. A draw at best. They are in there 3rd season we are in our 4/5th with a much retained squad. Or if you want. They are in their 3/5th. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="lappinitup"]Not the first time the OP has been envious of another club........http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun-forums/cs/forums/1654676/ShowPost.aspx[:)][/quote]"Why would he leave to go to villa? He won''t go. No way"Touché Lapps 😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 What happened to Arthur whittle? The Keane appt tied in with our non ambitious appt of gunn I believe. Didnt you think he was the man for the job? "He knows the club. He''s a Norwich man!" Similar to the Adams appt....😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 That didn''t answer my point buddy. That''s your view of my perspective. I much prefer to post factually like iI did in reply to your post about Lambert. If we''re going to discuss personalities and perspectives you are never happy with our club but always ecstatic by your perceived ambition in others. most of the other clubs you''ve been jealous of in the past are now in our shadow. Including the binners who you reckoned were soooo ambitious in going for that dream ticket of Evans and Keane.We don''t get everything right but over the past 6 seasons we''ve got more right than most. And when we did mess up we managed to put that right with an instant return to the PL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,300 Posted September 10, 2015 You start a very good debate on something which is of interest to us and in the near future will be something we will have to face in a change of ownership, DS & MJ are not getting any younger, and some just try to score cheap points by trolling up old threads.Why not just debate this thread, after all it''s in line with Palace chairman points raised.The fundamental issue is that without a Man City type take over a club like ours will never be able to compete in the big boy transfer market or like Southampton, hang into our best players, so a sustained challenge over many years will never happen.There will be 12 or so teams who will become established premiership teams others will at some point have a poor season and drop out, then there will be the yo-yo clubs who will have a couple or so seasons then go down.Until squads are aligned in money and numbers this will always be the case, and the big boys will never allow the playing field to be evened out as it would cost them far too much wealth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="nutty nigel"]That didn''t answer my point buddy. That''s your view of my perspective. I much prefer to post factually like iI did in reply to your post about Lambert. If we''re going to discuss personalities and perspectives you are never happy with our club but always ecstatic by your perceived ambition in others. most of the other clubs you''ve been jealous of in the past are now in our shadow. Including the binners who you reckoned were soooo ambitious in going for that dream ticket of Evans and Keane.We don''t get everything right but over the past 6 seasons we''ve got more right than most. And when we did mess up we managed to put that right with an instant return to the PL.[/quote]The Ipswich post was highlighting appointing Keane rather than gunn. Fair to say both failed. Swansea are my barometer. Remember the hughton v laudrup comparisons? So in hindsight we did mess up then? Something you couldn''t see at the time?The only period I''ve not been happy with was the hughton debacle which resulted in relegation, which as you admit "we did mess up". Adams I was disillusioned with but stuck with him, The point of the Op Has been summed up quite perfectly. I''m not attacking the board, far from it. But don''t be afraid of what change may have around the corner or what changing perceptions may bring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erik the Viking 0 Posted September 10, 2015 How refreshing to see a reasoned post challenging the current status quo and the position of our club.Dare to dream however that seems to unsettle many, why is that perhaps a reflection on their own lives and values? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="Indy"]You start a very good debate on something which is of interest to us and in the near future will be something we will have to face in a change of ownership, DS & MJ are not getting any younger, and some just try to score cheap points by trolling up old threads.Why not just debate this thread, after all it''s in line with Palace chairman points raised.The fundamental issue is that without a Man City type take over a club like ours will never be able to compete in the big boy transfer market or like Southampton, hang into our best players, so a sustained challenge over many years will never happen.There will be 12 or so teams who will become established premiership teams others will at some point have a poor season and drop out, then there will be the yo-yo clubs who will have a couple or so seasons then go down.Until squads are aligned in money and numbers this will always be the case, and the big boys will never allow the playing field to be evened out as it would cost them far too much wealth.[/quote]Indy. Stop it. You''re talking too much sense and sticking to the original post isn''t allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 Who isn''t debating the thread Indy?I saw Danny duck out of a debate he started about Lambert. But I guess that''s his choice as its his thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93vintage 16 Posted September 10, 2015 Just needing to make a couple of marqee signings to step up a level and have a period of sustained success is Hollywood fantasy. The Palace chairman is miming clichés.Before we go opening the chequebook we need to look at clubs like Swansea, and ourselves from 25 years ago. We need to work out what they did right, and what we did wrong. We''ve got to be smart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 Yes we did mess up buddy. But not in the way you reckoned. We messed up by wasting our biggest ever spend on players who were not good enough. This was recognised by the club when they admitted the same that summer. The idea you peddled that somehow the players were good enough and their failure was all down to Hughton has been well and truly blown apart by what''s happened since. RVW out on loan again after failing at St ettienne. Hooper not even first choice in the champs and currently 3rd or 4th choice in the prem. And Fer got relegated again at ambitious QPR.Now about Lambert and his backing,.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,562 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="can u sit down please"]Anybody see his interview on Fantasy Football club the other week? (I''ve just caught up). Was unbelievably refreshing to hear a chairman talk about being ambitious and trying to change the mindset and perception of a footbal club. When asked about was he surprised about signing a cabaye, he said no. "If you don''t aspire, you don''t stretch yourself, you don''t dream you''re only ever gonna be what you are.....""Alan dis play a part but he wasn''t going to sign if we didn''t match his ambition. But you need to try and change the lack of ambition that can come from supporters. That starts from the top."I must admit that I agree with everything that he says. He wants to take palace up a level and make signings like cabaye the norm. Who can blame him? They are a similar sized club, similar attendances and are now embarking on there 3rd straight season in the league. His wealth is £45m compared to our owners £23m so not worlds apart in football terms when compared to billionaires. Do you think the club is held back by "little old Norwich" tag? A perception of playing it steady?Unfortunately now it seems that palace like Swansea have outgrown us. Will we bridge the gap? Will we ever have that statement of intent in the transfer market which will make people take note? (Rvw aside) Just interested in people''s thoughts, if you can catch the interview it''s worth a watch. 👍🏽[/quote]It would have taken about 30 seconds to discover that the total wealth of the four Crystal Palace co-owners amounts to £398m. But then that would pretty much invalidate the entire post and its not very subtle criticism of the way Norwich City is run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,300 Posted September 10, 2015 That''s an interesting point Nutty, so who do we blame for signing such poor players? Or players who were prior to coming here pretty good for their respected clubs?Why did they fail and we got relegated after our biggest spend?Is it not down to the manager to submit his list of transfer prospects he would like to buy? So surely he should have scouted these players and made sure they fitted his profile and squad requirements, so I would still say it was Hughtons fault to a degree whichever way you want to look at it......BUT this is just going over old discussed issues and moving the thread away from the OP question of changing owners, what will that bring? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erik the Viking 0 Posted September 10, 2015 Is anybody aware if we have new 3/5 year plan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,300 Posted September 10, 2015 How much are our co owners worth in total? I don''t know.But this is why football is fast becoming a boring prospect to watch and the majority of the worldwide audience is only intersted in the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. of the world.Wouldn''t it be nice to have a fixed 25 man squad with every club limited to 50 million on wage player budget, players not registered released not included in the reserves which are worth more than most bottom end clubs.If only........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 Blame! Don''t you just love it?I should think the ones who lost their jobs got the blame.If the thread is being taken off topic then its not by me. I''ve only replied to points made by others. Unless you mean disagreeing with the OP takes it off topic. I''ve noticed many people struggle to cope when that happens. Theyd be better served by writing a blog.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,300 Posted September 10, 2015 But you said you can''t blame Hughtons earlier in your posts didn''t you?So you do blame Highton then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can u sit down please 0 Posted September 10, 2015 [quote user="Erik the Viking "]Is anybody aware if we have new 3/5 year plan?[/quote]A very good point that''s been skipped over. Id be disappointed if we didn''t. What would your plan be erik? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erik the Viking 0 Posted September 10, 2015 Has to be a to become a permanent fixture in the top division and that comes from maximising revenue streams and looking for successors to move the club forward on & off the pitch who have new drive.Stadium expansion should feature highly also.It''s all become a bit stale and surely we have to evolve? Would be interested to hear your views Can u sit down & others as these points are far more important than covering old ground? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,300 Posted September 10, 2015 New addition to the board would be a welcome start, to implement a transition and a new strategic plan working in line with MacNally would be a nice start.It would be nice to see our board start the search for the replacement now, this would make any takeover smoother over a period of time.As this has not happened is sad as DS & MWJ are no spring chickens. I''d like them to stay on the board but hand the club over to a new young investor or group of investors.I don''t want to see a big takeover where everything is changed in the boardroom, we have some great people there and with new investment and ideas we could move towards catching that goal of mid table stability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erik the Viking 0 Posted September 10, 2015 Agree Indy, fresh blood would bring new impetus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted September 10, 2015 Indy, what I said was that it wasn''t the way Hughton played these players it was the players not being good enough. You can see who got the blame for that by looking at who was sacked including Hughton. The idea that these signings were good enough but it was,all down to the way Hughton played them has been blown out of the water by what happened to the players since. Hughton did well the first season when Lambert bottled the challenge of maintaining PL status while paying off the debt. He couldn''t repeat that feat after we wasted the money when we finally had it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites