westcoastcanary 0 Posted April 21, 2015 [quote user="TCCANARY"]You should always look to improve, if you stand still you''re probably going backwards, so even if you do get knocked down you should get back up again you should never be kept down.[/quote]I''m not disputing that TC; you should always aim to be the best you can. My point was that "the best you can" does not imply "you can be the best". There''s a reason why we can only dream about winning the PL: money. And the idea that we might be taken over by a seriously wealthy owner with ambitions to win the Champions League and challenge the Real Madrid''s of this world is an even more extravagant dream!And in reply to Jimmy, there is nothing that makes "a good sustained period" in the PL "long overdue" for us. That implies we somehow "ought" to be there. There''s no "ought" about it. Yes clubs in our bracket manage it -- you cite Stoke and Bolton, you could add WBA, Wigan and Swansea. The fact is, though, that 46 clubs have spent at least one season in the PL since it was founded, which means 26 are currently "swanning around the Championship" or lower leagues (not to mention another 19 or so who have never been in the PL but did feature at some time in the old First Division). No doubt there are plenty of fans of those 45 clubs (the Sheffield clubs, Leeds, Ipswich, Charlton, Brighton, Cardiff, Birmingham, Wolves, Blackpool, etc. etc. etc) who also think they are "due" a prolonged stay in the PL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crabbycanary3 994 Posted April 21, 2015 For gawds sake westcoast, put some green and yellow specs on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted April 21, 2015 Brighton have never been a premiership club, Blackpool were flash in the pan and have overachieved if anything, Charlton have had their long stint quite recently, you could argue Birmingham have as well. I would certainly agree with Wolves, Sheff Weds, Ipswich and Leeds though. All have similarly suffered from poor decisions and/or bad luck while the likes of Stoke, Bolton, Wigan, Swansea, Hull and co are all having/ have recently had their days in the sun. Fact of the matter is, we have spent 4 of the last 20 seasons in the top flight. That is not good enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted April 21, 2015 4 of the last 20, is that figure accurate Jimmy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 0 Posted April 21, 2015 [quote user="Crabbycanary3"]For gawds sake westcoast, put some green and yellow specs on![/quote][:D] My specs ARE green and yellow -- but they don''t have distorting lenses! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,547 Posted April 21, 2015 [quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TCCANARY"]Your point about the club not existing without the fans is an interesting one but it would be easy for a club in the Premier League to exist without fans as they''d still get enormous revenue from the TV. [/quote]What, with empty stadiums? This is where the fallacy of the great and wonderful premier league breaks down. It is not there for the fans, who are often fleeced and with matches placed at the most inconvenbient times for them to get to. The Premier League is a blot on the landscape for footballing tradition which has been replaced by greed - by media greed for power and influence, by rich playboy owners greedy for ego boosting etc etc. But if fans stopped going to games, the bubble would burst, the media would lose interest and the rich playboys would disappear, returning the game to the fans. The fans, ultimately still have the power. If only they knew how to use it.....[/quote] So you agree with my point. Why should the Premier League care about footballing tradition, it has a product that sells that''s all that matters. [/quote]Agreed. The money they make is all that matters to them. The ones with the money make the money - it has ever been thus. What fans could do - if they got too fed up with the focus on the top of the premiership and the dour football in the lower half, is boycott matches en masse, thus bursting the bubble. You can''t sell a football product such as the premiership if there are no fans at the games and the adverse publicity of fans boycotting games could cause change. It would need a lot more people to get disillusioned enough for it to happen - but it is there as a possibility in the background. One heck of a lot of people must still like the product - or accept the product for what it is, because they are still buying in to it. Do they have a choice? Of course, they could just stop going........but if everyone stopped going, it would cause a revolution and panic at Sky and in football clubs that have become so reliant on the millions of pounds revenue that would be under threat. The fans have the power, but will they ever use it? Probably not, but it is there, nevertheless....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,222 Posted April 21, 2015 [quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TCCANARY"]Your point about the club not existing without the fans is an interesting one but it would be easy for a club in the Premier League to exist without fans as they''d still get enormous revenue from the TV. [/quote]What, with empty stadiums? This is where the fallacy of the great and wonderful premier league breaks down. It is not there for the fans, who are often fleeced and with matches placed at the most inconvenbient times for them to get to. The Premier League is a blot on the landscape for footballing tradition which has been replaced by greed - by media greed for power and influence, by rich playboy owners greedy for ego boosting etc etc. But if fans stopped going to games, the bubble would burst, the media would lose interest and the rich playboys would disappear, returning the game to the fans. The fans, ultimately still have the power. If only they knew how to use it.....[/quote] So you agree with my point. Why should the Premier League care about footballing tradition, it has a product that sells that''s all that matters. [/quote]Agreed. The money they make is all that matters to them. The ones with the money make the money - it has ever been thus. What fans could do - if they got too fed up with the focus on the top of the premiership and the dour football in the lower half, is boycott matches en masse, thus bursting the bubble. You can''t sell a football product such as the premiership if there are no fans at the games and the adverse publicity of fans boycotting games could cause change. It would need a lot more people to get disillusioned enough for it to happen - but it is there as a possibility in the background. One heck of a lot of people must still like the product - or accept the product for what it is, because they are still buying in to it. Do they have a choice? Of course, they could just stop going........but if everyone stopped going, it would cause a revolution and panic at Sky and in football clubs that have become so reliant on the millions of pounds revenue that would be under threat. The fans have the power, but will they ever use it? Probably not, but it is there, nevertheless....... [/quote]Why would it cause panic at Sky they show loads of games without worrying about who is in the stadiums, if no-one buys thier sports package that would be cause for concern. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norfolk Mustard 94 Posted April 21, 2015 [quote user="morty"]Like it or not, the phrase "Prudence with ambition" still pretty much covers it.[/quote]I used t to work with a girl called Prudence. She didn''t show a great deal of ambition though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
