0-0 what a surprise.

[lake district canary 0]

Whatever happened to attacking football?

 

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

Oh dear...

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

Not the best of games, but there was more skill and attacking endeavour from both sides than from us against Italy...

[Ben 0]

Boring boring Spain. Yawn, why didn''t they start with those attacking players?

[Shack Attack 0]

I thought the first half was pretty decent with Portugal pressing Spain higher up the pitch and forcing them long. This meant that they lost that control of the game which some people find makes games involving them quite sterile. But Portugal really needed to score in that first half to give them something to hang onto and force Spain into taking more risks. Second half was a lot more cagey as Portugal realised that they could not keep up the high press for ninety minutes and Spain were still worried about containing Ronaldo. Extra time was entertaining I thought.Much was made on the BBC about the lack of shots on target with the suggestion being that Spain don''t try to score but would the game have been more entertaining if Xavi had given the Portugese keeper some catching practice by shooting speculatively from distance? Of course it wouldn''t. There is more to a game of football than goals. Just because a match is not a six goal thriller does not make it boring (although I appreciate boring is subjective before anyone starts). There were plenty of interesting phases in tonights game as far as I am concerned and I speak as a normal football fan not somebody who thinks they are a ''purist'' or that anyone who does not like the Spanish way of playing is a philistine. I just think a lot of people are jumping on a bandwagon at the moment without giving it much thought. The backlash against the Spain are boring backlash starts here [:D][;)]

[YankeeCanary 0]

The "rolling around in pain" bit ( from both teams ) and then getting to their feet almost right away, when the replays frequently showed very little contact at all, this is a little hard to swallow as legitimate entertainment. The Germans should get to the final and, if they do, I hope they put Spain to the sword. 

[Shack Attack 0]

Because Germans never dive do they? If pushed I would prefer to watch teams who play like the Germans than those who play like the Spanish but this idea that Spain are boring, or worse negative, is starting to get on my nerves. It''s just the fashionable thing to say now that people are bored of Spain winning everything and getting all of the plaudits. It''s a bit like how certain bands are deemed cool until they get too popular and too mainstream and then they start to get slated.This Spanish team is one of the greatest the world has ever seen and if they win the final on Sunday they will achieve something no other country has. Although I have said I tend to prefer the German way of playing (and I''m a massive fan of management duos wearing matching outfits) there is a part of me that would love Spain to win just to annoy the moaners.

[lake district canary 0]

What is the objective of a football match?    To beat the opponent.    You do that by scoring goals - more goals than the opposition.   

 

 

The kind of football we are being served up by Spain is more like watching a game of chess - but without the checkmate.  In attack they don''t get enough scoring positions so all their skilful passing and team work is largely nullified.    Ok, they won the penalty shoot out.   The penalty shoot out is now like a fail safe mechanism.    "Its ok if we don''t score, because as long as we keep the ball and don''t let the other lot score we can always win on penalties." 

 

 

The match tonight wasn''t the worst I''ve seen but it adds up over a period of time - the way international football will go if Spain carry on like this. 

 

 

I''ve had more fun watching Kasparov v Karpov...........................

 

 

Sriously...........

 

 

[;)]

 

 

[lake district canary 0]

Apologies, there''s an ''e''  in sriously.......

 

 

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

 

Shack, players from all countries dive in today''s world but, in my opinion, many of the Latins take it to an art form.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

I don''t classify Spain as ''boring'', although I do consider tiki taka to be somewhat defensive. In many way the criticisms of Spain are typical of the country that invented the Premier League, which considers excitement to be fast, rushed play with many mistakes and lots of chances (not that there''s anything wrong with that) to be the ultimate form of play. I find the most interesting (and exciting) part of watching Spain play is to do with their outstanding technique, football intelligence, and trying to make a 4-6-0 work. Whilst the Germans are the most exciting team, Spain are by far the most interesting, trying to watch a team perfect a certain footballing philosophy is far from boring, especially when they try to rewrite common tactical law (no strikers, for example). It doesn''t always work, and sometimes the games can be slow and ponderous with few chances, but it''s always interesting, at least to me. 

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

What is the objective of a football match?    To beat the opponent.    You do that by scoring goals - more goals than the opposition.   

 

 

The kind of football we are being served up by Spain is more like watching a game of chess - but without the checkmate.  In attack they don''t get enough scoring positions so all their skilful passing and team work is largely nullified.    Ok, they won the penalty shoot out.   The penalty shoot out is now like a fail safe mechanism.    "Its ok if we don''t score, because as long as we keep the ball and don''t let the other lot score we can always win on penalties." 

 

 

The match tonight wasn''t the worst I''ve seen but it adds up over a period of time - the way international football will go if Spain carry on like this. 

 

 

I''ve had more fun watching Kasparov v Karpov...........................

 

 

Sriously...........

 

 

[;)]

 

 

[/quote]

I agree with this. The overall aim when you pick up the ball in a football match is to make some attempt to score. That is how you win matches funnily enough. It almost seems that Spain have become so wedded to the idea of perfect possession football that they have lost sight of the bigger picture. Which is to score goals. The fact that England have been poor to watch this tournament is beside the point. Spain with all their attacking talent and flair should serving up much better performances and results than they are.

[Xavi- Poor Mans Ian Crook 0]

The way England played was fairly boring but I feel Spain are just as boring if not more so. You can''t watch them and not respect their football and sticking to your philosophy but it is not entertaining.

[crabbycanary 2]

Is this on the opposite end of a scale to, say, a Stoke? Stoke the long ball merchants, Spain the purists. I think the most appropriate word may be ''effective'' as opposed to entertaining, no? Arguments for either team on that score perhaps. 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

 

Shack, players from all countries dive in today''s world but, in my opinion, many of the Latins take it to an art form.

[/quote]So your issue is not so much with diving per se just the fact that they are better at it than us [:D][;)]In all seriousness I do agree up to a point. The diving in last nights game was (predictably) over the top and did start to annoy me after a while. It is so commonplace these days that I find that simply accepting it as part of the modern game is the only way of not getting so annoyed that you no longer enjoy games. But games between Barcelona and Real Madrid (or games like last night when there are a lot of their players on the pitch) are a bit of a struggle.

[quote user="lake district canary"]

What is the objective of a football match?    To beat the opponent.    You do that by scoring goals - more goals than the opposition.   

 

 

The kind of football we are being served up by Spain is more like watching a game of chess - but without the checkmate.  In attack they don''t get enough scoring positions so all their skilful passing and team work is largely nullified.    Ok, they won the penalty shoot out.   The penalty shoot out is now like a fail safe mechanism.    "Its ok if we don''t score, because as long as we keep the ball and don''t let the other lot score we can always win on penalties."

[/quote]That''s all well and good but the statistics show that Spain have averaged 17.4 shots per game at Euro 2012. That is more than Germany (15) who everybody will tell you are the most entertaining side. So the notion that they are boring because ''they don''t get enough scoring positions'' is clearly incorrect. You are also talking as if Spain regularly need penalties to get through in the knock out stages of major tournaments which does not hold up to the slightest scrutiny.If you find possession football boring then that is fine. There is no right or wrong way to play the game and the notion that the Spain/Barcelona way of playing is ''good football'' is what is, in my opinion, driving a lot of this backlash against the Spanish. But to argue that they don''t create enough chances to be entertaining looks as if you are trying to justify your own tastes with examples that simply cannot be backed up.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

So your issue is not so much with diving per se just the fact that they are better at it than us [:D][;)] In all seriousness I do agree up to a point. The diving in last nights game was (predictably) over the top and did start to annoy me after a while. It is so commonplace these days that I find that simply accepting it as part of the modern game is the only way of not getting so annoyed that you no longer enjoy games. But games between Barcelona and Real Madrid (or games like last night when there are a lot of their players on the pitch) are a bit of a struggle.


[quote user="lake district canary"]

What is the objective of a football match?    To beat the opponent.    You do that by scoring goals - more goals than the opposition.   The kind of football we are being served up by Spain is more like watching a game of chess - but without the checkmate.  In attack they don''t get enough scoring positions so all their skilful passing and team work is largely nullified.    Ok, they won the penalty shoot out.   The penalty shoot out is now like a fail safe mechanism.    "Its ok if we don''t score, because as long as we keep the ball and don''t let the other lot score we can always win on penalties."

[/quote]

That''s all well and good but the statistics show that Spain have averaged 17.4 shots per game at Euro 2012. That is more than Germany (15) who everybody will tell you are the most entertaining side. So the notion that they are boring because ''they don''t get enough scoring positions'' is clearly incorrect. You are also talking as if Spain regularly need penalties to get through in the knock out stages of major tournaments which does not hold up to the slightest scrutiny.   If you find possession football boring then that is fine. There is no right or wrong way to play the game and the notion that the Spain/Barcelona way of playing is ''good football'' is what is, in my opinion, driving a lot of this backlash against the Spanish. But to argue that they don''t create enough chances to be entertaining looks as if you are trying to justify your own tastes with examples that simply cannot be backed up.
[/quote]

 

 

It''s becoming cynical and pre-meditated.    A method to win.   Dive and cheat your way into getting the advantage, play keep ball so the other team can''t score (and limit your goals in the process).   Hope to win 1-0 or the back up of penalties.     Its not entertainment. 

 

Brazil used to keep the ball and attack prolifically.  It is the ultimate.  Keep the ball  and be direct.    When Norwich played keep football at the end of the 80''s it was fascinating to watch, but it wasn''t until they added a directness to it with Walker that they got the balance right.   Spain have almost got the idea right - they just need to add a more direct approach to it then they wouldn''t get the criticism.      It can''t be bad what they are doing because they are winning things - but Germany are the team most people want to win. Why? because they keep the ball well and have an entertaing, direct style.

 

 

[Lets be aving you! 0]

A bit surprised Spain have not played Llorente, who looked decent for Bilbao this year. The striker they started off playing yesterday was very poor.

 

Spain''s best players are clearly mainly midfielders, and so the manager has packed the team with them. The problem is that these midfielders are too much of a kind. They also lack any searing pace to beat players, and so there are very few one-on-ones to create clear chances in the box. Just a slow build-up all the time.

 

This restricts them to shots from outside the box or facing a packed defence because they are too slow in their build up (the same sort of problem Barca experienced with Chelsea).

 

An extreme form of Arsenal and Swansea, with wingers and van Persie ditched for some high-level David Foxes.

[Salopian 1]

Spain asnd Portugal have both made their reputation on attacking flair and also on quick, powerful and aggressive defenders. Last night I think we saw that the latter is a more powerful factor. The defences mostly managed to snuff out the vaunted attacks.I must admit that I expected possibly 1-1 and penalties, but 0-0 didn''t surprise me in the slightest.

 

There were chances for both teams, but Spain were playing without a striker for much of the game, and Portugal had Ronaldo on the wing. It was never going to be a high-scoring game.I think, too, that the importance of the game made them defensive-minded -  a "they must not score" rather than "we have to score" attitude. This may explain the usual rather boring passing backwards and forwards accross the front of the penalty area, with packed and well marshalled defenders and midfielders, - rather like England, in fact.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Perhaps the only thing to come out of this is that, for once, Sepp Blatter is right in wanting a penalty shoot-out alternative. In four hours football in the last two games not one goal has been scored and both matches have gone to penalties where, apparently Spain won because Fabregas talked to the ball.

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

 

Shack, players from all countries dive in today''s world but, in my opinion, many of the Latins take it to an art form.

[/quote]

So your issue is not so much with diving per se just the fact that they are better at it than us [:D][;)]

In all seriousness I do agree up to a point. The diving in last nights game was (predictably) over the top and did start to annoy me after a while. It is so commonplace these days that I find that simply accepting it as part of the modern game is the only way of not getting so annoyed that you no longer enjoy games. But games between Barcelona and Real Madrid (or games like last night when there are a lot of their players on the pitch) are a bit of a struggle.


[quote user="lake district canary"]

What is the objective of a football match?    To beat the opponent.    You do that by scoring goals - more goals than the opposition.   

 

 

The kind of football we are being served up by Spain is more like watching a game of chess - but without the checkmate.  In attack they don''t get enough scoring positions so all their skilful passing and team work is largely nullified.    Ok, they won the penalty shoot out.   The penalty shoot out is now like a fail safe mechanism.    "Its ok if we don''t score, because as long as we keep the ball and don''t let the other lot score we can always win on penalties."

[/quote]

That''s all well and good but the statistics show that Spain have averaged 17.4 shots per game at Euro 2012. That is more than Germany (15) who everybody will tell you are the most entertaining side. So the notion that they are boring because ''they don''t get enough scoring positions'' is clearly incorrect. You are also talking as if Spain regularly need penalties to get through in the knock out stages of major tournaments which does not hold up to the slightest scrutiny.

If you find possession football boring then that is fine. There is no right or wrong way to play the game and the notion that the Spain/Barcelona way of playing is ''good football'' is what is, in my opinion, driving a lot of this backlash against the Spanish. But to argue that they don''t create enough chances to be entertaining looks as if you are trying to justify your own tastes with examples that simply cannot be backed up.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of your post Shack however I have to point out that Spain managed 27 shots against Ireland who were clearly well below the standard of the other teams. One must remember that Germany had a much much stronger group where Portugal were considered the weakest or second weakest team and were close to a final appearance.

Spain do indeed create a lot of chances though, however they are so very wasteful with them. I often find that there are better chances out there for them to take. There were many occassions when the risky ball out wide was there to take and they continued to shy away from that gamble until the last 30 minutes. Portugal on the other hand were the complete opposite and you could argue that if they slowed the ball down in the final third they might have made some better chances.

The thing that disapoints is that this Spain team is clearly much better than the rest but they continue to play within themselves. History and casual fans are not kind on those teams and that is why teams like the old Hungary and Austria teams, that never had the same level of success as this Spanish team, are still remembered to this day.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

I was impressed by the way Portugal approached Spain last night, especially in the first half, when they pressed them high up the pitch, forcing them into playing more long balls (remind anyone of a certain Prem fixture in Wales last season ?).  As a result Portugal were far better for the first half.  Unfortunately their centre-forward never looked like he would score, and several times he shot from a poor position rather than pass to someone better placed.

 

The reality is Portugal are at best a decent international side made a bit special by having one of the top two players in the world.  Spain failed to score in 120 minutes and were second-best for large parts of the match - which sums up Spain''s level as a team for me.

 

Personally I hope Spain lose the final simply to stop more teams being influenced by their style which I find deadly dull.