We are 10X bigger than Rangers or Celtic

[Yellow Messiah 0]

However much Rangers an Celtic claim to be big teams in realtity they have players of a mid-table Championship team, just look a their squards here http://www.rangers.co.uk/first-team http://www.celticfc.net/team the only players who could get into our squard from Rangers are Allan McGregor and Steven Davis, Celtic fare slightly better but still remember their star striker is Gary Hooper, hardly world-beating. The SPL as a whole is of League 1/2 standard this includes the attendences 4,520 for a Motherwell home match, they are 3rd in the SPL, contrast this with Tottenham who are 3rd in the Premier League with an attendence of 36,176 against Newcastle. The SPL''s Cheif Executive is that financial genius Neil Doncaster who''s financial skills and brilliant managerial appointments led us into League 1.  In conclusion the only thing big about these clubs are their stadiums and their tax bills.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

I don''t really like the whole ''big club'' debate but anybody with an understanding of football knows the Old Firm are huge clubs suffocating in the SPL.

Only Manchester United & Liverpool can claim to have bigger fanbases than them. I don''t want them in the English league but give them a couple of years with the increased revenue and they''d be major contenders.

[Budapest Canary 152]

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]I don''t really like the whole ''big club'' debate but anybody with an understanding of football knows the Old Firm are huge clubs suffocating in the SPL.

Only Manchester United & Liverpool can claim to have bigger fanbases than them. I don''t want them in the English league but give them a couple of years with the increased revenue and they''d be major contenders.[/quote]I hate to say this, but when here in Budapest people see my son''s City scarf it usually need explanation who they are and what they are. Celtic has been constantly present in international football in the past decades, kids have heard of them, at least via footie trading cards, etc. They are a bit like Ajax -- big fish in a small pond, and they are bigger then City, at least as a brand name.

[Canarino 0]

Perhaps this is an age thing - I started following football in the late 60s/early70s and would certainly class Celtic as a very "big club". However, for younger people who weren''t around then, I can see that it might be a question of "what''s all the fuss about"?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Canarino"]Perhaps this is an age thing - I started following football in the late 60s/early70s and would certainly class Celtic as a very "big club". However, for younger people who weren''t around then, I can see that it might be a question of "what''s all the fuss about"?[/quote]

 

Agreed, Canarino. as you say, anyone who pretends that The Old Firm are not absolutely HUGE clubs either have no sense of history, or are too young. Also, do not know much about Scotland.

 

Their fanbase is massive, and this makes what''s going on at Ibrox all the more puzzling. As others have said though, the problem is lack of competition. In the past the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen (occasionally Dundee Utd too) were able to give them a run for their money, but no more, and that''s why they suffocate.

 

It would make economic sense for all parties for them to be competing in the English League, but I too would be very much against them being shoe-horned into the Prem . In which case, where would they start ?  But after a few seasons, they would be major players. Don''t forget that Glasgow is the UK''s second city .

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="Canarino"]Perhaps this is an age thing - I started following football in the late 60s/early70s and would certainly class Celtic as a very "big club". However, for younger people who weren''t around then, I can see that it might be a question of "what''s all the fuss about"?[/quote]

 

Agreed, Canarino. as you say, anyone who pretends that The Old Firm are not absolutely HUGE clubs either have no sense of history, or are too young. Also, do not know much about Scotland.

 

Their fanbase is massive, and this makes what''s going on at Ibrox all the more puzzling. As others have said though, the problem is lack of competition. In the past the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen (occasionally Dundee Utd too) were able to give them a run for their money, but no more, and that''s why they suffocate.

 

It would make economic sense for all parties for them to be competing in the English League, but I too would be very much against them being shoe-horned into the Prem . In which case, where would they start ?  But after a few seasons, they would be major players. Don''t forget that Glasgow is the UK''s second city .

[/quote]

When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything in Europe? An amalgamation of the Glasgow and Edinburgh sides, thus two teams, would be the only option on joining the English League that I could halfway agree with.It''s bad enough that we have to accommodate the Welsh when they already have their own League.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Shyster"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="Canarino"]Perhaps this is an age thing - I started following football in the late 60s/early70s and would certainly class Celtic as a very "big club". However, for younger people who weren''t around then, I can see that it might be a question of "what''s all the fuss about"?[/quote]

 

Agreed, Canarino. as you say, anyone who pretends that The Old Firm are not absolutely HUGE clubs either have no sense of history, or are too young. Also, do not know much about Scotland.

 

Their fanbase is massive, and this makes what''s going on at Ibrox all the more puzzling. As others have said though, the problem is lack of competition. In the past the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen (occasionally Dundee Utd too) were able to give them a run for their money, but no more, and that''s why they suffocate.

 

It would make economic sense for all parties for them to be competing in the English League, but I too would be very much against them being shoe-horned into the Prem . In which case, where would they start ?  But after a few seasons, they would be major players. Don''t forget that Glasgow is the UK''s second city .

[/quote]

When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything in Europe? An amalgamation of the Glasgow and Edinburgh sides, thus two teams, would be the only option on joining the English League that I could halfway agree with.It''s bad enough that we have to accommodate the Welsh when they already have their own League.[/quote]

Actually, with a little more thought on this subject I oppose the above notion as well.We have a pyramid system in England where teams aspire to one day reaching professional status and there''s local businessmen and fans alike putting their hard-earned into achieving said status, so how can it be right for Scottish sides to expect us to accommodate them? We were in the old Third Division just a couple of years ago - how would we feel about Scottish sides coming straight into the League in Divisions above us? I''m pretty certain we wouldn''t be too chuffed.And let''s not forget that Alex Salmond and the majority of Scottish people want independence -- well, have your independence and keep your crappy League is what I say.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

If you''ve now quite finished your anti-Scottish rant, Shyster, perhaps you might take the trouble to reread my posting. If you do so, you''ll see that, actually, I agree with you . It would be virtually impossible to get the Old Firm into the English League, without upsetting many English clubs, which is why I too would be against the idea .  When I said it would make economic sense to all parties, that is undoubtedly true, but ,thankfully, there is still more to football than hard cash.

 

You ask when have Scottish clubs ever won anything in Europe....well agreed ,not often , because of the lack of quality competition . Actually, Celtic recently got to the final of the Europa league ( beaten by Porto) , which, given the circumstances, was a great achievement.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

If you''ve now quite finished your anti-Scottish rant, Shyster, perhaps you might take the trouble to reread my posting. If you do so, you''ll see that, actually, I agree with you . It would be virtually impossible to get the Old Firm into the English League, without upsetting many English clubs, which is why I too would be against the idea .  When I said it would make economic sense to all parties, that is undoubtedly true, but ,thankfully, there is still more to football than hard cash.

 

You ask when have Scottish clubs ever won anything in Europe....well agreed ,not often , because of the lack of quality competition . Actually, Celtic recently got to the final of the Europa league ( beaten by Porto) , which, given the circumstances, was a great achievement.

[/quote]

Well, thanks for that, Eric, but you''re not really moving the conversation on much.We''ll be here discussing the whys and wherefores until time immemorial at this rate.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Shyster"]Well, thanks for that, Eric, but you''re not really moving the conversation on much.

We''ll be here discussing the whys and wherefores until time immemorial at this rate.
[/quote]

 

Erm, again you misunderstand me, Shyster. My intention was not really to "move the conversation on". But you had misconstrued my original post, and I thought it was only fair to clarify what I''d said !

 

Now....what else would you like me to comment on re the whys and wherefores ?  I''ve stated my opinion on this matter, and any further comment would be, I feel, superfluous.

[shefcanary 2,503]

There is a risk that what has happened in Scotland could happen in England. 

 

Two clubs dominating that league has led to the Scottish league system becoming a farce.  Years ago they should have done something to break up this duopoly to ensure that the game was more competitive.  The current format doesn''t help - better to go back to two leagues of 22 I reckon.  Perhaps if they had had a couple of seasons of sharing out money equally irrespective of league positions in the mid 80''s other sides may have become more strong and provided more of a challenge.  What Rangers have done is overpaid players in a vain hope of a European cup win but its hard for players to coast through a Saturday game against teams like Dunfermline then expect to play AC Milan on a tuesday for instance.  Having to keep a squad happy with extra dosh through fiddling HMRC out of due tax is the sign of their desperation.  It would probably a good thing for Scottish football if they did go bust, get relegated and have to re-climb the ladder.  Perhaps Doomcaster could engineer this and be the saviour of Scottish League football yet.

 

Here in England it was getting to be the big four, but at least Man City and Spurs have broken in this year.  If the Toon and ourselves can infiltrate the Big Six to become the Big Eight, soon in might even become a proper Premier league of 20. 

[johnnygavinscoresagain 0]

[quote user="Ncfc123"]However much Rangers an Celtic claim to be big teams in realtity they have players of a mid-table Championship team, just look a their squards here http://www.rangers.co.uk/first-team http://www.celticfc.net/team the only players who could get into our squard from Rangers are Allan McGregor and Steven Davis, Celtic fare slightly better but still remember their star striker is Gary Hooper, hardly world-beating. The SPL as a whole is of League 1/2 standard this includes the attendences 4,520 for a Motherwell home match, they are 3rd in the SPL, contrast this with Tottenham who are 3rd in the Premier League with an attendence of 36,176 against Newcastle. The SPL''s Cheif Executive is that financial genius Neil Doncaster who''s financial skills and brilliant managerial appointments led us into League 1.  In conclusion the only thing big about these clubs are their stadiums and their tax bills.[/quote]

And their support.

Two very big clubs, one a winner of the European Cup, both reached a Euro final in the last 10 years.

Deloitte''s Top 20 matchday revenue generating clubs:
Rank Club Revenue Money
League
€m ranking
1 Real Madrid 129.1 1
2 Manchester United 122.4 3
3 Arsenal 114.7 5
4 FC Barcelona 97.8 2
5 Chelsea 82.1 6
6 Bayern Munich 66.7 4
7 Liverpool 52.4 8
8 Hamburger SV 49.3 13
9 Tottenham Hotspur 44.9 12
10 Celtic 43.4 n/a
11 Benfica 40.2 n/a
12 Internazionale 38.6 9
13 Atlético de Madrid 35.9 17
14 Rangers 31.5 n/a
15 AC Milan 31.3 7
16 VfB Stuttgart 30.2 19
17 Aston Villa 29.8 20
18 Manchester City 29.8 11
19 Valencia 28.4 n/a
20 Werder Bremen 27.8 n/a

"Most strikingly, only three clubs from outside Europe’s ‘big five’ leagues feature in any of our rankings. The Glasgow giants, Celtic and Rangers have not appeared in the Money League since 2006/07 and 2005/06 respectively but they still generated the 10th and 14th highest matchday revenues owing to their phenomenal support. Each club has average league attendances in excess of 45,000. However, the limited size of their
domestic broadcast market means that, barring UEFA Champions League success, neither club is likely to reappear in the Money League top 20 in the foreseeable future"

[MC Fearfull 0]

Just on a couple of notes on the whole attendance thing, Scotland has a population of 5 million and England 51 Million so we''re obviously going to get more than Scotland.

Lastly Bury St Edmunds has more people in it than Motherwell so you can expect too much from support but I do understand its poor as I do support them.

[6088m canary 0]

presumably this thread was started a little tongue in cheek and the O.P is thinking purely on the Sky Sports "the english premier league is the best in the world" nonsense.

For any Norwich fan (and of course i am one!) to say that NCFC are bigger than Celtic is absolutely insane....

We are a small to middle family club, occasionally punching above our weight but generally flitting about the second division.  Celtic are an enormous club with a fan base that we can only dream of.  For get the achievements of both clubs, jsut look at the numbers and the passion.

back when i was at the UEA (only went there so i could watch norwich regularly...so no "hes just a binner" replies!) i went to see tim Sheppard''s testamonial and spent the whole day in the pubs of our fine city drinking with Celtic fans (the most knowledgeable and passionate fans i have had the pleasure to meet).

To head down to Norwich for a completely meaningless game on a tuesday night in those numbers tells you all you need to know.  I just remember standing in the lower barclay attempting to make some noise and just standing in awe at the range of songs and the noise that the Celtic fans made.  If Carrow Road could show even 50% of that passion we would be by far the noisiest side in the EPL!

Quite honestly there are very few sides in Europe the sheer size of Celtic.....Man U and Liverpool are the only English sides that come close (you could argue Toon for numbers but id say they are a fickle bunch).

Even if you went purely on numbers inside the stadium, Celtic are at least twice the side we are?!??!?!?!

And on that basis they are the only side i wouldnt begrude Lambert leaving us for (lets hope he never does!!!)