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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel)

We have massively over achieved!

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Lincoln, kdncfc and City Angel all tell me I can''t blame fatigue for last nights defeat but I still do. That''s what I think and none of you have convinced me otherwise.

Lincoln and kdncfc think Palace were in the same boat with regards to fatigue and I disagree. We had a very hard game away to QPR where we had to be at our best mentally and physically for the whole game to get a result. That''s a very different kettle of fish to losing at home to Millwall. In fact if you look at Saturdays results you will see that six of the Championship sides who got a result away from home on Saturday followed up with a home defeat last night. The Championship is a very competetive league and there''s little difference between the teams. The slightest little advantage can tip the balance. In our relegation season we drew 3-3 at Wolves who were top of the league on a Tuesday night match after we had an extra day off having played the previous Friday night when Wolves played the Saturday.

City Angel says I can''t blame tiredness because several players were below par. I agree they were below par but I put it down to fatigue. If it wasn''t tiredness then what caused them to be below par?

I might be wrong, it''s just my opinion, but you guys are telling me I''m wrong without offering an alternative explaination.

 

[/quote]Without wishing to disrespect your opinion Nutty I still can''t see how a home game against Millwall would be any less demanding than an away game against QPR, I''m sure if you asked any team in this league they would say Millwall was one of their most physically demanding games of the season especially if they are backed by almost 5000 voiciferous fans as they were on Saturday. QPR would be a different type of challenge because you have to spend a lot of time chasing to get the ball from them but Millwall are a big powerful team of bruisers who like to let you know they''re around. I can''t offer an alternative explanation to our poor second half performance tbh although the changes at the back didn''t help but that still doesn''t explain the lethargy we displayed after the interval, I''m sure Paul Lambert couldn''t explain it either but I''m pretty sure that he''d refuse to use tiredness as an excuse because both teams had an equally tough game on Saturday imo.

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Great!! So my opinion is wrong but you don''t have an alternative however you''re sure Paul Lambert would agree with you[;)]

I believe that gaining a point at QPR would have been more physically and mentally tiring for our players, particularly Lappin, Smith and Hoolahan, than losing at home to Millwall was to theirs. It''s just the way of it I''m afraid. In an ideal world a manager would hope to be able to rotate their squad in these situations. But without changing the system Lambert didn''t have other options. Last time he did that we got beat 3-1 on the Tuesday night.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Great!! So my opinion is wrong but you don''t have an alternative however you''re sure Paul Lambert would agree with you[;)]

I believe that gaining a point at QPR would have been more physically and mentally tiring for our players, particularly Lappin, Smith and Hoolahan, than losing at home to Millwall was to theirs. It''s just the way of it I''m afraid. In an ideal world a manager would hope to be able to rotate their squad in these situations. But without changing the system Lambert didn''t have other options. Last time he did that we got beat 3-1 on the Tuesday night.

 

[/quote]Think we''d better just beg to differ and agree to disagree on this one Nutty cos my head is beginning to hurt.

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[quote user="kdncfc"]

Think we''d better just beg to differ and agree to disagree on this one Nutty cos my head is beginning to hurt.

[/quote]

That''s probably tiredness setting in[|-)][S]

 

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Forget the fatigue....tiredness and lethargy....

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

I also think there may have been a bit of squad complacency on Tuesday after our ''good'' but certainly not ''outstanding'' result on Saturday - and then us playing ''an easy three points'' game against the second bottom team at home....

In my opinion....a combination of lack of fitness and complacency, cost us the points on Tuesday....

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]

Think we''d better just beg to differ and agree to disagree on this one Nutty cos my head is beginning to hurt.[/quote]

That''s probably tiredness setting in[|-)][S]

 

[/quote]I''m not having that.

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

 

 

[/quote]

I would agree with that. I would add that some may not be capable of achieving that level of fitness. I also think this was compounded by the game following so quickly after the excertions at QPR. The players who noticebly struggled on Tuesday evening will probably be the ones that are replaced before we can really challenge at the top of this league. Some were only in because the first choice options were unavailable anyway.

Don''t go with the complacency bit though. I think they''re an honest bunch who gave their all.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

 

 

[/quote]

I would agree with that. I would add that some may not be capable of achieving that level of fitness. I also think this was compounded by the game following so quickly after the excertions at QPR. The players who noticebly struggled on Tuesday evening will probably be the ones that are replaced before we can really challenge at the top of this league. Some were only in because the first choice options were unavailable anyway.

Don''t go with the complacency bit though. I think they''re an honest bunch who gave their all.

[/quote]

What''s complacency, got to do with honesty?

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[quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="Persnickety²"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

R.Martin & Smith who were just awfull last night.

 

[/quote]

Lol. Thought the ridiculous R.Martin bashing had ended, but no, the parallel games that some people are watching still exist.

I''ll pretent to care..why was he just awful?

 

Couldnt pass, Constantly slowed play dwon when he had the oppurtunity to bomb forward and had a touch like a rapist when running with the ball. His delivery never cleared the 1st man or caused any danger, will that do? He is so average it is untrue.

[/quote]

I didn''t really see much of that.  Yes he kept passing back to Ruddy but there was no movement up front for him.  I didn''t think he slowed down play at all, I thought he got forward well,beat his man a couple of times and contributed to most of the good attacking play we had.  And he actually has quite a good delivery on him IMO.

I wasn''t a fan of him last season but this season he has really improved and has become a very good, reliable right back.

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

 

 

[/quote]

I would agree with that. I would add that some may not be capable of achieving that level of fitness. I also think this was compounded by the game following so quickly after the excertions at QPR. The players who noticebly struggled on Tuesday evening will probably be the ones that are replaced before we can really challenge at the top of this league. Some were only in because the first choice options were unavailable anyway.

Don''t go with the complacency bit though. I think they''re an honest bunch who gave their all.

[/quote]

What''s complacency, got to do with honesty?

[/quote]

You were suggesting that players didn''t play to their full potential because they became complacent. That would be a dishonest performance.

Unless of course you believe complacency is an excuse for dishonesty. It''s ok they didn''t give their best because they were being complacent?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

 

 

[/quote]

I would agree with that. I would add that some may not be capable of achieving that level of fitness. I also think this was compounded by the game following so quickly after the excertions at QPR. The players who noticebly struggled on Tuesday evening will probably be the ones that are replaced before we can really challenge at the top of this league. Some were only in because the first choice options were unavailable anyway.

Don''t go with the complacency bit though. I think they''re an honest bunch who gave their all.

[/quote]

What''s complacency, got to do with honesty?

[/quote]

You were suggesting that players didn''t play to their full potential because they became complacent. That would be a dishonest performance.

Unless of course you believe complacency is an excuse for dishonesty. It''s ok they didn''t give their best because they were being complacent?

[/quote]

No....I gave an opinion :

Forget the fatigue....tiredness and lethargy....

I just don''t think (bar the likes of Crofts) that the majority of our squad - have currently achieved - or have reached the required fitness levels of the majority of other Championship clubs.

I also think there may have been a bit of squad complacency on Tuesday after our ''good'' but certainly not ''outstanding'' result on Saturday - and then us playing ''an easy three points'' game against the second bottom team at home....

In my opinion....a combination of lack of fitness and complacency, cost us the points on Tuesday....

Complacency.....Look it up in the dictionary - and see if it mentions dishonesty anywhere in its definition or meaning....

If the players are truly honest with themselves....do they think that they''re currently fit enough for the Championsip?

In my opinion, I don''t think that they are fit enough at the moment....and that our current position in the league - had probably made them complacent, especially after the ''positive'' result achieved against the league leaders - and then playing the second bottom side...at home.

 

 

 

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I also gave an opinion:

I didn''t think anybody was awful last night. Maybe Askou at times but I think he was shown up rather than awful. Were they complacent? I guess it could be viewed that way or it could be viewed that they couldn''t be bothered. But we know these players and we know those two descriptions would hardly be fair. But were they knackered? Had they not recovered from such a hard game on Saturday? The diamond saps the energy of a lot of players and surprise surprise those players looked a little off the pace last night.

In my opinion a combination of energy spent at QPR coupled with a short recovery time cost us the points on tuesday....

That was my opinion and I haven''t rubbished anyone elses opinion to give it. It''s how I saw it and nobody has posted anything which has made me even consider changing my mind. I don''t buy the complacency excuse for one minute. Our fans got complacent about this fixture but why would the players? The Championship isn''t the Premiership or League One. It''s a proper League, ultra-competetive with little between the sides. In League One we had superior players. Some sides would stay with us through work rate alone but after 60/70/80 mins they would make mistakes. Physical or mental tiredness would set in and they''d let us in. This year is different, every team that has come to Carrow Road has been  a strong test and kept going until the end. All the games have been close.  Players are aware of this and I doubt if they would suddenly assume we only had to turn up to win on Tuesday.

So, as my friend kdncfc said - we can agree to disagree.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I also gave an opinion:

I didn''t think anybody was awful last night. Maybe Askou at times but I think he was shown up rather than awful. Were they complacent? I guess it could be viewed that way or it could be viewed that they couldn''t be bothered. But we know these players and we know those two descriptions would hardly be fair. But were they knackered? Had they not recovered from such a hard game on Saturday? The diamond saps the energy of a lot of players and surprise surprise those players looked a little off the pace last night.

In my opinion a combination of energy spent at QPR coupled with a short recovery time cost us the points on tuesday....

That was my opinion and I haven''t rubbished anyone elses opinion to give it. It''s how I saw it and nobody has posted anything which has made me even consider changing my mind. I don''t buy the complacency excuse for one minute. Our fans got complacent about this fixture but why would the players? The Championship isn''t the Premiership or League One. It''s a proper League, ultra-competetive with little between the sides. In League One we had superior players. Some sides would stay with us through work rate alone but after 60/70/80 mins they would make mistakes. Physical or mental tiredness would set in and they''d let us in. This year is different, every team that has come to Carrow Road has been  a strong test and kept going until the end. All the games have been close.  Players are aware of this and I doubt if they would suddenly assume we only had to turn up to win on Tuesday.

So, as my friend kdncfc said - we can agree to disagree.

[/quote]

Nothing new there then....

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Bristol City play QPR tonight.....Bottom plays Top.

That''s 3 tough  games in 6 days for league leaders QPR......

And 3 tough games in 6 days for bottom club Bristol City......

I don''t wish to sound complacent....but if I''m being honest, I''d expect QPR to beat Bristol City.

 

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Championship is a very competetive league and there''s little difference between the teams.

I doubt Neil Warnock thought his players were complacent last night. But he probably did put the result down to having 3 tough games in 6 days.

Bristol City also had three tough games in 6 days. So Warnock''s probably talking tripe and covering up for complacent players.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Championship is a very competetive league and there''s little difference between the teams.

I doubt Neil Warnock thought his players were complacent last night. But he probably did put the result down to having 3 tough games in 6 days.

Bristol City also had three tough games in 6 days. So Warnock''s probably talking tripe and covering up for complacent players.

[/quote]

Before the QPR away game, the large majority of our squad - had nearly a two week international break from competitive league football.....

Maybe (or probably) they had too much (or insufficient) rest and recuperation, before facing the league leaders?

I wonder how war weary our squad will be against Boro today?....Our poor honest bunch of ''diamond playing geezers'' - have only had a meagre 3 days convalescence - since that energy sapping battle and (most unfortunate) defeat against Palace....

If we do lose, we can put it down to your theory/excuse....If we win or draw....we can put it down to the (small, but most welcomed) 3 days recovery period since defeat by Palace.

I can also imagine that the poor ''diamond playing darlin''s are going to be on their last legs, during the fixture congested and busy festive period....

In my personal, fatigued, honest and complacent opinion.....Maybe, just like Colin, you''re also just talking a load of sheep stomach?

 

 

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There is no doubt that a huge part of our success this season is built on hard work. We don''t have the most talented squad in this league - we are where we are largely because of the phenomenal effort the players put in week-in, week-out.

I would support Nutty in suggesting that QPR (a) is a more demanding fixture than Millwall (h). QPR pass the ball really well and the hardest thing to do in football is chase the ball around.

I''d also suggest that the diamond is a high intensity system - it requires an enormous amount of work for Crofts, Lappin and Korey.

I''ve seen enough of these boys to suggest that they are very unlikely to be guilty of complacency, and I think they''re worth the benefit of the doubt,

The fact that Lambert rested Wes and Korey today and gave the diamond a miss in favour of a 442 that allows the players to sit in front of the box and defend in two banks of four suggests that he probably would side with Nutty too...without admitting it of course.

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