Lewis loses appeal!

[E I E I E I O 0]

What a surprise!The Pro Ferrari board have struck again, is there nothing they will stop at to assist the italians???!!! It is becoming a farce and does not help the sport gain support.Mclaren are constantly in trouble while Ferrari get away with things!!

[CaptnCanary 0]

I posted on the ITV F1 forum: Was Hamiltons Penalty even legal?

I''m hoping somebody will be able to answer this quoting official FIA rules. It is my understanding that a stop go penalty will usually be applied within something like 3-5 laps of an offense taking place. The reason for this being that they need to minimise the impact of somebody being ahead of another car or cars having got in front illegally. Now, if the offense takes place towards the end of the race then they may not be able to apply the penalty during the race. However, surely the stewards must still be limited to a few minutes to make their decision to apply a stop go penalty or not. That way within a short time of the race ending the time penalty would be applied and the correct ''winner'' would stand on top of the podium. However, in Belgium it is my understanding that the stewards spoke to every man and his dog about the Hamilton/Raikonnen incident and took a couple of hours before applying the stop go penalty. Surely this is too long a period for a stop go penalty to legally be applied? Had the event took place with 10 laps to go would they still have made the same decision and applied the penalty during the race? I doubt it very much. I think maybe McLaren approached this from the wrong angle and should have appealed that the penalty itself was inadmissable!

 

 

And another thing. During the race last week the ITV commentators were going on about the drivers now having to wait until after the next corner before challenging for a position if they cut a corner. Pointless Drivel! Dozen''s of times in the past something has given a driver an advantage that has led to him overtaking maybe 5 or 6 corners later.

Everyone knows Hamilton, firstly was forced to cut the corner by Raikonnen, secondly did his best to ensure compliance with the rules by letting Raikonnen back in front, thirdly gained no slip stream advantage, forthly only overtook at the next bend because it was wet and he was good enough to brake much later than Raikonnen, and fifthly the incident had no bearing on the final outcome of the race! Absolutely garbage penalty ruining the best finish to a race I remember watching.

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

The penalty was fair. He gained an advantage by running across the chicane. Had he waited until after the first corner then he would not have had the penalty. And with the way he was catching Kimi he certainly could have waited. He had plenty of opportunities over the the last two laps from that point to have passed the Ferrari legally. I do not buy into this Ferrari Internationally Assisted rubbish. Had Kimi or Felipe got passed Hamilton in the same way all the British press and the majority of fans would have been jumping up and down about it.

[E I E I E I O 0]

I will agree to disagree Rasputin!Ferrari are 100% assisited by the FIA!

[E I E I E I O 0]

By the way Rasputin, I am curious whether you have recently recieved a PDF to change the face of Norfolk??

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

I think you know the answer to that one [:P]

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[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]The penalty was fair. He gained an advantage by running across the chicane. Had he waited until after the first corner then he would not have had the penalty. And with the way he was catching Kimi he certainly could have waited. He had plenty of opportunities over the the last two laps from that point to have passed the Ferrari legally. I do not buy into this Ferrari Internationally Assisted rubbish. Had Kimi or Felipe got passed Hamilton in the same way all the British press and the majority of fans would have been jumping up and down about it.
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Do the rules specifically state that you have to wait until after the corner to re-overtake?

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

No, but common sense would suggest that you gain an unfair advantage by cutting the corner.

[E I E I E I O 0]

There was an incident at the Monza race where it looked to me as if Massa cut the chicane and did not have 2 wheels on the track to overtake. A penalty certainly not he drives a Ferrari, I am sure he cut the corner to overtake? Advantage???!!!

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]No, but common sense would suggest that you gain an unfair advantage by cutting the corner.
[/quote]

 

And to be fair to Lewis he did slow down and let him past, not long after that he crashes out lol

[Rupethebear 0]

Guys, as a some time saloon car racer myself, I have raced at Spa 3 times, I feel I need to add a comment.

The speed you approach that bend is awsome, as the cars will have been flat out for nearly a mile and you have to make a move in your mind quite early. If you then get run off the road you either keep your foot in and stick to your line and take both cars out or you lift off and head up the escape route and back off. This is what Lewis did and I have done this before and therefore and is within the rules. The FIA is so biased it changed the rule for the Italian GP and stated you can not overtake until after the next corner, well this was just so they could reject the appeal.

What a joke, some tin pot stewards are ruining the sport it''s like letting me referee the next game at Carrow Road!!

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If the rules don''t state it then the penalty is unfair, as he gave up the lead like he was asked to do. Else you could make up all sorts of common sense rules during a race.

He was asked to give up the lead, he did. He re-overtook, apparently nothing was said when he did this. It was then sent to the stewards afterwards.

I don''t know where people get off making rules up to support Ferrari.

A rule is a rule, you can''t apply some extra common sense to it.

Wouldn''t common sense say that can the driver in the lead slow to 1mph but Hamilton wouldn''t be allowed to pass until the following corner thus allowing other people to catch up in third? That wouldn''t make much common sense would it. Just cos one driver is crud in the rain doesn''t mean Hamilton should be given a penalty.

Not saying anyone has said this, just making sure everyone is aware. Hamilton wasn''t found to have done anything correct/wrong by the judge, it was a case that it wasn''t admissible.

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To be honest, i am just getting a bit jacked off with how we are treated by the rest of Europe. This perceived arrogance is such rubbish. We have Ferrari being given Championship and we have Blatter now trying to come up with some scheme to limit the amount of money the English football can spend.

Did anyone see Blatter moaning and groaning when Real were 250mil in debt spending 50mil on a player??

Now English clubs are doing it, oh well, this is so bad for the game.

Chelsea buying lots of players - bad. Real potentially buying C. Ronaldo for stupid money, oh well, that''s okay, it''s a great honout to play for  Real.

Why don''t they all just f''ing go and do one.

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

Everyone is against us aren''t they Downloads. The world is an absolute bloody shambles.

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You''re very funny and clever with your wit.

Actually what would be more clever is to counter what i say, but you can''t. I would love anyone to answer my question with a reasonable answer rather than sarcasm.

Blatter one of the most influential people in football has been outspoken against Chelsea and buying players previously.

Why has he never moaned about Real in the same way? Why would it have been okay in his eyes for Ronaldo to move to Real for big money when Real don''t have the cash to finance it?

Anwer that clever man.

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

To be fair there is sod all we fans can do about it. Until the FA put their foot down then things like this are always going to occur in football.On to the Lewis situation I gave you my reasons. He gained an unfair advantage, is that not a correct assessment. Yes he slowed down and let Kimi passed but he was much closer to the back of that Ferrari than if he''d followed him through the chicane. He would have been even further behind if, as really should be the case, there was a gravel trap on the inside of the corner. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world and yet they can just cut a corner if they go in to hot. I would love to see the gravel trap return in some form. Doesn''t have to be as it was, but a trap of a few feet at the edge of each corner would make drivers less likely to take short cuts. He cut the chicane and in doing so was able to remain closer to the Ferrari.All this bad feeling about the FIA seems to be spilling over from last season when McLaren were rightly found guilty of cheating. I don''t like Ferrari much. They aren''t quite as dislikable as when they have the German driving for them, but they are still unlikable. If there really is a bias then just see it as an extra challenge and if Lewis wins this season everyone can say he did it despite the penalty.

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How about why since 1930 up to including 2014 England have only put on the World Cup once when Germany, Brazil, Italy, France and Mexico have all staged it twice, when we have a large number of great stadiums and we created football.

Maybe it''s like the chap who has the African vote said. "I will be voting for England as i think it is unacceptable that the creators of football have only held it once in all those years. However there is this perceived arrogance rightly or wrongly." He went on to say that whilst he has a strong vote, there isnt any support for us in Europe.

I hope that untimately they have to give it to us in the end else it will look bad, but not before we have been made to work for it!

Sorry OP, my Europe moan has gone off topic!

[Shack Attack 0]

If I was a religious man I would suggest that young Lewis is being punished for the sin of being a thieving little tax dodger. But I''m not so I''ll be quiet.

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[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]To be fair there is sod all we fans can do about it. Until the FA put their foot down then things like this are always going to occur in football.

On to the Lewis situation I gave you my reasons. He gained an unfair advantage, is that not a correct assessment. Yes he slowed down and let Kimi passed but he was much closer to the back of that Ferrari than if he''d followed him through the chicane. He would have been even further behind if, as really should be the case, there was a gravel trap on the inside of the corner. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world and yet they can just cut a corner if they go in to hot. I would love to see the gravel trap return in some form. Doesn''t have to be as it was, but a trap of a few feet at the edge of each corner would make drivers less likely to take short cuts. He cut the chicane and in doing so was able to remain closer to the Ferrari.

All this bad feeling about the FIA seems to be spilling over from last season when McLaren were rightly found guilty of cheating. I don''t like Ferrari much. They aren''t quite as dislikable as when they have the German driving for them, but they are still unlikable. If there really is a bias then just see it as an extra challenge and if Lewis wins this season everyone can say he did it despite the penalty.
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Mate, i do agree, i think they could have been wiser, i guess it''s just frustration about how they interpret the rules. And at a perceived benefit of the "big boys".

I don''t know about the last couple of seasons, but when i read the finance a few years back, they said Ferrari got paid more for being in F1 if they came stone cold last, even if the next best team came first. I mean that''s shocking! This was nothing to do with sponsors, just the deals that had been worked out. (As you can tell, it gets under my skin!)

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Snakepit boys"]What a surprise!

The Pro Ferrari board have struck again, is there nothing they will stop at to assist the italians???!!! It is becoming a farce and does not help the sport gain support.

Mclaren are constantly in trouble while Ferrari get away with things!!
[/quote]

Motor racing a farce!!!   Most of us worked that out years ago.   Nearly as fake a sport as American wrestling.

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

I don''t fully understand why Ferrari do get the funds they do. I am led to believe that the teams negotiate the money they get from the FIA independently and its unlike football where the prize money is set and dished out depending on the final position in the league. I would also imagine that it is very beneficial to Formula One to have Ferrari competing. It probably doesn''t sound right and obviously will annoy some people, but I suppose it is understandable. There are a lot of people who know very little about Formula One, but they love Ferrari and so they will follow whatever series they are in. Possibly a little like if Man United moved from the English Premier League and joined some other countries league or even dropped out of a league and just played friendlies. Of course it won''t happen, but they would take a lot of people away from the Premier League. It''s all down to who is the most saleable brand and Ferrari stand head and shoulders above the rest in Formula One at the moment. It may not be right, sadly its the way it is and not a lot can be done by those who watch and support.

[CaptnCanary 0]

[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]No, but common sense would suggest that you gain an unfair advantage by cutting the corner.
[/quote]

I''m sorry Rasputin but this comment shows that you clearly do not understand motor racing very well or did not even see the incident in question. So I will explain exactly what happened. Approaching the end of a straight, Hamilton was on the outside with nose very slightly ahead of Raikonnen''s. They both braked late and Raikonnen went wide into the corner leaving Hamilton nowhere to go other than to crash into Raikonnen or to cut the corner as often happens in F1 and other racing. Hamilton therefore took the sensible option and cut the corner and in doing so was ahead of Raikonnen. As Hamilton was slightly ahead going into the previous braking zone it was questionable whether he had gained a position in the manouevre but to be on the safe side he slowed down and let Raikonnen take the lead by more than a car''s length. Then going into the next corner Hamilton out-braked Raikonnen and re-took the lead of the race. Note that the track was quite wet and slippery at the time and so braking distances are much harder to judge.

This is where the contentious part comes in. The stewards said that because Hamilton was able to overtake at the very next corner he must have still had an advantage due to having cut the previous corner. This suggests that he gained a slip stream by being close to Raikonnen. However, this is certainly not the case. If you gain a slip stream on a long enough piece of track you are able to gain extra speed and pull out and pass the car ahead or at least get alongside BEFORE the braking zone. No such thing occurred. Hamilton was still a full car''s length behind at the next braking zone and simply out-braked Raikonnen on a wet surface. Had the track been bone dry and the same situation occurred I have no doubt that Hamilton would not have passed Raikonnen on that next corner. Therefore no unfair advantage was gained what so ever.

Previous to this event the rules have never stated that you must wait another corner before attempting to pass again. In fact, if the rules do now state that to be the case, it is also farsical. Often a passing move will start 4 or 5 corners before the pass actually takes place. For example, the car in front locks a wheel going into a corner, the guy behind gets very close, the guy in front has to go defensive on the next corner and so takes a slower line, the guy behind gets a better exit to the corner, the same happens for the next 2 corners and then down the main straight the pass happens. So if the initiating incident is the cutting of a corner, how many corners should you have to wait before making a move? 1 corner? 5 corners? A lap? 10 laps? Its non-sensical. Hamilton allowed Raikonnen back in the lead fully complying with the rules as written and the race director when asked immediately by McLaren OK''d what had happened.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="Snakepit boys"]What a surprise!

The Pro Ferrari board have struck again, is there nothing they will stop at to assist the italians???!!! It is becoming a farce and does not help the sport gain support.

Mclaren are constantly in trouble while Ferrari get away with things!!
[/quote]

Motor racing a farce!!!   Most of us worked that out years ago.   Nearly as fake a sport as American wrestling.

[/quote]

 

lol now that is a crock of s**t, I know it''s called sports entertainment, but the fans are real serious aren''t they?  Don''t really understand how fans can pay hundreds of £ going to see these so-called wrestlers (I call them poor actors) lol.

 

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]

[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]No, but common sense would suggest that you gain an unfair advantage by cutting the corner.
[/quote]

and the race director when asked immediately by McLaren OK''d what had happened.

[/quote]

That was another thing that got me, it was okay''d. The gutless wonder then refrerred it to the stewards later once he realised Ferrari wern''t going to win with Raikonnen.

Why not say "you can''t do that, let him take the lead again" instead of referring it afterwards and a decision is made post race. There is no transparancy other than it just appears that Ferarri are being favoured by adding bits on to rules that never existed. (An opinion backed by a former Ferarri Championship winner!)

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

I''m afraid to disappoint you Captn, but I watched the race. Like I''ve watched every race for the last 13 years. I understand the concept very well. Lewis Hamilton cut the chicane would you not agree? Would you also not agree that by doing so he was able to remain close behind the Ferrari going into the first corner? It''s got nothing to do with slip streaming. Yes he eased off, but he was still a lot closer than if he had taken the chicane properly. He would have lost time in fact because he over cooked it. As I said in another post, if there had been a gravel trap on the inside of the corner he would not have been able to take the easy way out. He wouldn''t have gained an advantage and would not have found himself in such a position.This decision in my opinion is the correct one because Hamilton gained an advantage by not following the circuit.

[Polar 0]

FIA is ridiculous, no one at the time jumped up and said "Unfair unfair!", it was a great piece of racing and lewis was hardly in Kimis slipstream for more than a hundredths of a second but rather trying to go outside him then take him on the outside.FIFA is ridiculous, and Blatter is a fool.end of.

[Mr. Bump 0]

[quote user="Polar"]FIA is ridiculous, no one at the time jumped up and said "Unfair unfair!", it was a great piece of racing and lewis was hardly in Kimis slipstream for more than a hundredths of a second but rather trying to go outside him then take him on the outside.

FIFA is ridiculous, and Blatter is a fool.

end of.
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What the hell does Fifa have to do with this? [:S]

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

Fifa are the source of all evil don''t you know. Although cats have their part to play. *shakes fist*

[Polar 0]

[quote user="Mr. Bump"]

[quote user="Polar"]FIA is ridiculous, no one at the time jumped up and said "Unfair unfair!", it was a great piece of racing and lewis was hardly in Kimis slipstream for more than a hundredths of a second but rather trying to go outside him then take him on the outside.FIFA is ridiculous, and Blatter is a fool.end of.[/quote]

What the hell does Fifa have to do with this? [:S]

[/quote]FIFA influenced the FIA to punish lewis because he is english and therefore has a link to the premier league, and the premier league is evil, and that means lewis is evil. while ferrari have links to serie A and therefore are saints because serie A has mourinho and Kaka, who are not evil... which makes no difference to anything because Massa is brazilian, which i guess links to kaka and kimi is finnish, which is exactly what i''m going to do with this post.

*disclaimer* i have no idea what i just said.

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

[quote user="Polar"][quote user="Mr. Bump"]

[quote user="Polar"]FIA is ridiculous, no one at the time jumped up and said "Unfair unfair!", it was a great piece of racing and lewis was hardly in Kimis slipstream for more than a hundredths of a second but rather trying to go outside him then take him on the outside.FIFA is ridiculous, and Blatter is a fool.end of.[/quote]

What the hell does Fifa have to do with this? [:S]

[/quote]FIFA influenced the FIA to punish lewis because he is english and therefore has a link to the premier league, and the premier league is evil, and that means lewis is evil. while ferrari have links to serie A and therefore are saints because serie A has mourinho and Kaka, who are not evil... which makes no difference to anything because Massa is brazilian, which i guess links to kaka and kimi is finnish, which is exactly what i''m going to do with this post.

*disclaimer* i have no idea what i just said.[/quote]That all seems quite logical. It''s logical bollócks, but it''s still logical [:P]