Macron: Europe can Die.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

I've been long critical of Macron, but lately he's sounding more and more like a proper leader in my view.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/04/25/in-eu-speech-macron-says-europe-is-mortal-and-can-die_6669505_4.html

[Fen Canary 866]

Is it just posturing on his part though because he looks like getting trounced by Le Pen at the EU elections?

I don’t disagree with what he’s saying, although the way he talks of Europe as a bloc similar to the States or Soviet Union rather than individual countries doesn’t sit right with me.

Europes countries (and I include Britain in this) do need to start contributing more to their defence and bringing their industry back in house though. Relying on the Chinese for the manufacturing, the Russians for energy and yanks for security while doing nothing of their own is a recipe for disaster 

[KiwiScot 1,460]

Europe is still trying to bulid ideals while it's foundation crumbles as the rest of the world wakes up more.  Defence spending certaintly sounds good, but the will to use it is needed.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

I wish someone in power (such as Macron) would articulate what they see as a victory in Ukraine. is it the total defeat of the Russian military capability? Or is it just the removal of Russian military from Ukrainian soil? And does that include Crimea as being Ukrainian soil or can the west accept that to go to the Russians? Without a clear definition of the objective that determines victory there is no reason for the conflict not to continue for just as long as someone is prepared to pay for it. Some players would love to turn that corner of Europe into another Middle east forever at war with itself. If Trump does come to power next year, Europe might find itself as the leading player in this engagement and it behoves Macron who sees his country as the leading military power in the EU to step up to the plate. He could begin by telling us how this war might end.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I wish someone in power (such as Macron) would articulate what they see as a victory in Ukraine. is it the total defeat of the Russian military capability? Or is it just the removal of Russian military from Ukrainian soil? And does that include Crimea as being Ukrainian soil or can the west accept that to go to the Russians? Without a clear definition of the objective that determines victory there is no reason for the conflict not to continue for just as long as someone is prepared to pay for it. Some players would love to turn that corner of Europe into another Middle east forever at war with itself. If Trump does come to power next year, Europe might find itself as the leading player in this engagement and it behoves Macron who sees his country as the leading military power in the EU to step up to the plate. He could begin by telling us how this war might end.

Your wish is granted!

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-must-reclaim-crimea-achieve-real-peace-macron-1879496

Edited April 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Your wish is granted!

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-must-reclaim-crimea-achieve-real-peace-macron-1879496

Thanks. Sorry to be a nuisance but do you know whether the other nations supporting Ukraine are aligned with Macron or do other countries have other opinions on what constitutes victory?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Thanks. Sorry to be a nuisance but do you know whether the other nations supporting Ukraine are aligned with Macron or do other countries have other opinions on what constitutes victory?

From what I've been reading, the general consensus is anything less than restoring Ukraine to pre-2014 borders is failure. That's not to say that failure won't be the outcome given the sporadic resolve of Western supporters of Ukraine. And if Trump gets elected then Europe is really going to have to step up.

Edited April 29 by littleyellowbirdie