Is a man a man and a woman a woman?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

On 08/10/2023 at 00:50, Rock The Boat said:

I spent a number of years working in Thailand, which as most of you know is famous for its third gender. The Ladyboys, or khathoey as they are known over there, have been around in mainstream society for hundreds of years and can be found in all class strata and in all sorts of professions and, apart from the occasional bump in the road they get along pretty well as integrated members of the society. So why do khathoeys get by without major problems but transwoman create so many issues. Well, obviously the Thais have had much longer to figure this out, but one very significant difference is that khathoeys do not claim to be women. If you ask them what there gender is they say they are khathoey, a completely separate category. And when it comes to having to choose bathrooms, for example, then they follow their biological sex. So one of the bumps in the road that occur is that all males can be called up for national service. Khathoeys get an excemption if they've had surgery, as they are considered to have 'mal-formed chests'

Perhaps western trans people should drop the demand to be considered to have a gender opposite to their biological sex and instead we come up with a name for a third gender and let them be that.

I can see merit in that. One problem I see is that Thai people accept khathoeys. I am not sure westerners with their evangelical hang ups would accept it. After all, it is us who have to accpept things as well.

[king canary 7,680]

On 08/10/2023 at 00:50, Rock The Boat said:

I spent a number of years working in Thailand, which as most of you know is famous for its third gender. The Ladyboys, or khathoey as they are known over there, have been around in mainstream society for hundreds of years and can be found in all class strata and in all sorts of professions and, apart from the occasional bump in the road they get along pretty well as integrated members of the society. So why do khathoeys get by without major problems but transwoman create so many issues. Well, obviously the Thais have had much longer to figure this out, but one very significant difference is that khathoeys do not claim to be women. If you ask them what there gender is they say they are khathoey, a completely separate category. And when it comes to having to choose bathrooms, for example, then they follow their biological sex. So one of the bumps in the road that occur is that all males can be called up for national service. Khathoeys get an excemption if they've had surgery, as they are considered to have 'mal-formed chests'

Perhaps western trans people should drop the demand to be considered to have a gender opposite to their biological sex and instead we come up with a name for a third gender and let them be that.

An author, who's name I forget, fell foul of the debate for espousing a similar (and in my view entirely reasonable) position- that trans women are trans women. Because of course trans women have experienced and will continue to experience the world differently to someone born a woman. 

Trans women don't have to worry about pregnancy or go for smear tests. If they grew up presenting as male they likely weren't getting catcalled and sexualised by men twice their age while still in high school. In Afghanistan a woman can't 'identify' out of their sex and be allowed to attend school under the Taliban just as I can't 'identify' my way out of prostate cancer or similar.

It is mad to me that people want to pretend there is little or no difference. 

[Aggy 766]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

An author, who's name I forget, fell foul of the debate for espousing a similar (and in my view entirely reasonable) position- that trans women are trans women. Because of course trans women have experienced and will continue to experience the world differently to someone born a woman. 

Trans women don't have to worry about pregnancy or go for smear tests. If they grew up presenting as male they likely weren't getting catcalled and sexualised by men twice their age while still in high school. In Afghanistan a woman can't 'identify' out of their sex and be allowed to attend school under the Taliban just as I can't 'identify' my way out of prostate cancer or similar.

It is mad to me that people want to pretend there is little or no difference. 

Afghanistan really the example you want to use?

[king canary 7,680]

2 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Afghanistan really the example you want to use?

You're badly misreading my post if you think its positive towards Afghanistan.