who should become Labour leader?

[Jools 584]

[quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="Strawman"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="ricardo"]Corbyn would be a wet dream come true for the Tories.[/quote]Wrong! The reduction in tax credits is the death partys poll tax and the robbing tories will lose alot of voters along the way because of it. Good.[/quote]LOLJeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister.JCWNBPM[/quote]Whenever Labour move an inch in the direction of redistribution they are accused of being class war obsessed unreconstructed Marxists by our euphemistically named free press. The Tories on the other hand are praised when they introduce extreme measures which redistribute to the wealthiest and take food from the mouths of children. It is all the bastards ever do when in power.People are fools not to recognise that the Tories are engaged in a full on class war. They are just hoping that enough people fail to notice it. But people will notice, just as they did in 1997 and by 2020 Corbyn WILL be the new PM. [/quote]Spot on post, though it slightly opposes your previous post [*-)][/quote]That''s because I''m joshing with you, you socialist buffoon [:D][:D][:D][B]

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="Strawman"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="ricardo"]Corbyn would be a wet dream come true for the Tories.[/quote]Wrong! The reduction in tax credits is the death partys poll tax and the robbing tories will lose alot of voters along the way because of it. Good.[/quote]LOLJeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister.JCWNBPM[/quote]Whenever Labour move an inch in the direction of redistribution they are accused of being class war obsessed unreconstructed Marxists by our euphemistically named free press. The Tories on the other hand are praised when they introduce extreme measures which redistribute to the wealthiest and take food from the mouths of children. It is all the bastards ever do when in power.People are fools not to recognise that the Tories are engaged in a full on class war. They are just hoping that enough people fail to notice it. But people will notice, just as they did in 1997 and by 2020 Corbyn WILL be the new PM. [/quote]Spot on post, though it slightly opposes your previous post [*-)][/quote]That''s because I''m joshing with you, you socialist buffoon [:D][:D][:D][B] [/quote]Not quite sure why you felt the need to post a Private Message [:P]Because you''re a newbie I was trying to spare your blushes.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Strawman"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="ricardo"]Corbyn would be a wet dream come true for the Tories.[/quote]Wrong! The reduction in tax credits is the death partys poll tax and the robbing tories will lose alot of voters along the way because of it. Good.[/quote]LOLJeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister.JCWNBPM[/quote]Whenever Labour move an inch in the direction of redistribution they are accused of being class war obsessed unreconstructed Marxists by our euphemistically named free press. The Tories on the other hand are praised when they introduce extreme measures which redistribute to the wealthiest and take food from the mouths of children. It is all the bastards ever do when in power.People are fools not to recognise that the Tories are engaged in a full on class war. They are just hoping that enough people fail to notice it. But people will notice, just as they did in 1997 and by 2020 Corbyn WILL be the new PM. [/quote]OK tory boy. What with your own post do you disagree with?

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="Strawman"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="ricardo"]Corbyn would be a wet dream come true for the Tories.[/quote]Wrong! The reduction in tax credits is the death partys poll tax and the robbing tories will lose alot of voters along the way because of it. Good.[/quote]LOLJeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister.JCWNBPM[/quote]Whenever Labour move an inch in the direction of redistribution they are accused of being class war obsessed unreconstructed Marxists by our euphemistically named free press. The Tories on the other hand are praised when they introduce extreme measures which redistribute to the wealthiest and take food from the mouths of children. It is all the bastards ever do when in power.People are fools not to recognise that the Tories are engaged in a full on class war. They are just hoping that enough people fail to notice it. But people will notice, just as they did in 1997 and by 2020 Corbyn WILL be the new PM. [/quote]OK tory boy. What with your own post do you disagree with?[/quote]Just refer to Ricardo''s posts.I can''t be bothered with you.

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="Strawman"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="julian hudson"][quote user="ricardo"]Corbyn would be a wet dream come true for the Tories.[/quote]Wrong! The reduction in tax credits is the death partys poll tax and the robbing tories will lose alot of voters along the way because of it. Good.[/quote]LOLJeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister.JCWNBPM[/quote]Whenever Labour move an inch in the direction of redistribution they are accused of being class war obsessed unreconstructed Marxists by our euphemistically named free press. The Tories on the other hand are praised when they introduce extreme measures which redistribute to the wealthiest and take food from the mouths of children. It is all the bastards ever do when in power.People are fools not to recognise that the Tories are engaged in a full on class war. They are just hoping that enough people fail to notice it. But people will notice, just as they did in 1997 and by 2020 Corbyn WILL be the new PM. [/quote]Hilarious stuffMillions of working people taken out of taxation due to the raising of tax allowancesOld age pension triple lock£2 billion extra for the NHS.The minimum wage to be raised far in excess of Labours proposalsFreedom to do what we like with our own pensions.Commitment to maintain foreign aid budget at 0.7% GDP. Same sex marriage act put into law.Ohhhh the wicked bastards.The reason that Labour cannot keep their promises is that they always wind up skint.

[Jools 584]

I am talking about the cuts in tax credits Osbourne is imposing for his own selfish political ends that will cause untold misery for the poorest of our society.  There are so many other areas of state expenditure that can, and should be cut before resorting to this vindictive approach. Trident is one such area.Osborne is not the sort of politician who can generate public appeal. He should take a few tips from Corbyn. It looks as though the toff bastard will be really hated by 2020 so I would love to see Osbourne lead the Tories into the next election.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="julian hudson"]I am talking about the cuts in tax credits Osbourne is imposing for his own selfish political ends that will cause untold misery for the poorest of our society.  There are so many other areas of state expenditure that can, and should be cut before resorting to this vindictive approach. Trident is one such area.Osborne is not the sort of politician who can generate public appeal. He should take a few tips from Corbyn. It looks as though the toff bastard will be really hated by 2020 so I would love to see Osbourne lead the Tories into the next election.[/quote]Dear oh dear, I know you socialists like to believe in magic money trees and getting something for nothing, but seriously, Gordon Brown''s Tax Credits were bound to fail from the day they were introduced. They''re unsustainable and keep people out of work, ya great pillock. On Saturday it has been reported by David Phillips, a senior research economist at the IFS, that Ms Dorrell''s (the crying woman on last weeks ''Question Time'') Tax Credits will be unaffected by the cuts owing to the fact that her earnings are not above the threshold. Yes, someone with two children on £20,000 a year stands to lose £2,000 a year, which is a considerable amount and I can also think of plenty of cuts that should be made in other areas (such as Foreign Aid, not Trident and the counties defence, you dolt) but I''m sure people will manage with better control of their finances. Most, if not all, working households will be better off come 2017 once all the welfare reforms (higher wages & lower taxes) have kicked in -- Not a lot of economically, illiterate socialist buffoonss know that [:D]

Tw@t.

[mrs miggins 0]

As well as wanting to now abolish free school meals to children, the tories have been absolute shite for us as a country. If you''re going to fuck over the poor in order to balance the books in 5 years then do it, don''t tell bare faced lies, he''s worse than Blair in that respect. Camoron is getting away with the false rhetoric as some people are actually stupid enough to believe it.

-Bankers'' Bonuses rise by 64% in just 1 year

-Food Bank usage has grown by 700%+ in 3 years

-1 million are now employed on Zero-Hours Contracts

-Tories have axed 5,601 Nurses since May 2010

-Water Charges are up 20% since 1 Apr 2010

-Tories axed 5,000 Firefighters and hundreds of Fire Stations.

-The Tories sold the Royal Mail for 50% less than it''s now valued

-Gas Prices are up 31% since May 2010

-Homelessness is up 28-34% since May 2010

-Rough Sleeping in London has grown 85% since Boris Johnson became Mayor

-House Building, last year, fell to a 90 year peacetime low (yes, whilst we still have a housing crisis - One of Labours biggest priorities).

-Electricity prices are up 22-39% in price since May 2010

-£12bn+ of NHS has been put up for sale under this government

-33% of NHS Walk In Centres have been axed

- The Tories plan to kick 30,000 nurses out of Britain because they weren''t born here. New immigration laws mean that workers recruited outside the EU and earn less than £35,000 after six years will need to go home- meaning foreign nurses

-3.5 million now live in Child Poverty as Tory welfare cuts & sluggish wage growth bite

-Numbers of Working Poor have doubled in 3 years & include homes with 2.2mill children

-Numbers living in temporary accommodation have grown 11.4% since Q2 2010

-Bedroom Tax clobbered 660,000 of which 2/3rs are disabled & 1/4 single parents

-The Tories and their Lib Dem pals trebled Tuition Fees

-Bus Fares are up 22% under the Tories

-Rail Fares are up 27% since 2010

-The Number of GCSE Students getting A/A* Grades has fallen by 6% since 2010

-35,000 Police personnel have lost their jobs under the Tories

-42,000 Armed Forces personnel to lose their jobs even though £2bn went unspent

-National Debt has risen £447 billion

-Minimum Wage rises have been below inflation every year of Tory rule

-The Tax Gap has grown by £3bn to £35bn in the last year alone [evasion/avoidance]

-11,000 Fat Cat NHS Bosses given a 13% pay hike while nurses pay frozen

-NHS Patient Satisfaction went from record high under Labour to record low under Tories (no $hit they''re about to put some money into it)

-1.8 million workers now earn less than the National Minimum Wage

-Cameron’s promise to “implement in full” the Conservative manifesto brings back onto the table his pledge to scrap the Human Rights Act and replace it with a British bill of rights. Expect an early bill to ‘pave the way’ to its abolition. Theresa May hinted in the early hours that a majority Conservative government means that the data communications bill - the snooper’s charter blocked by the Liberal Democrats - is now also back on the table.

-Half a million public sector jobs are likely to be axed in the next few years. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said 580,000 jobs might be at risk in the next few years, after studying details of cuts in the Tory manifesto.

-The con that is the ''new improved'' EU deal that Cameron is going to get for us; its total bull

-George Osborne trying to hide his smug grin at the Queen''s Speech, when she mentioned the Northern Powerhouse, a term that he coined. The North has some of the most disadvantaged towns and cities. These are the people that need helping the most, and many people actually living there feel the whole "northern powerhouse" plan isn''t addressing any problems.

-New state powers that will enable the government to spy on us

-Attempting to legalise fox hunting once again

-Attempting to change constituency boundaries (in their favour) in order to stay in power

-George Osborne wants governments to always run at a surplus- which would mean binding the austerity measures we face now into concrete that could last forever.

-Phillip Hammond banned the rainbow flag from flying at the Foreign Office. He was one of four Tory ministers who didn''t support Gay Marriage. (Not a big point, but Hammond is a big figure in the Tory party and it just shows how backwards they are - the tory party however should be congratulated for having at least some morals over gay marriage....even if there was reluctance within the party though)

-Doctors and nurses have complained they are understaffed 1,800 times, at just one NHS board. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, which runs 3 district hospitals and 22 smaller hospitals in North Wales, has received that many complaints about it''s hospitals being understaffed. - Yet they still want to create a 7 day NHS.

-Also, just to point out how much of a complete load of liars the tory party are;

The chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Gove to stop lying about Education

The chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Hunt to stop lying about NHS Spending

The chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Cameron to stop lying about Debt Reduction

Why some people defend the tories actions I''ll never know.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Why some people defend the tories actions I''ll never know.[/quote]Because of what Labour inflicted on the country from 1997 to 2010 and the inherent stuff on your list that the Conservatives are having to act upon I would imagine [:P]

[ricardo 7,402]

It makes you wonder why we don''t have permanent Labour Governments doesn''t it, must be something to do with selective memory.How silly of me to forget that Gas, Electricity and Water prices never go up under Labour Governments.No factories and mines ever closed, the NHS was always a beacon of efficiency, doctors wore halo''s and nurses had angel wings. The Mid Staffs hospital scandal and hundreds of unnecessary deaths was just nasty Tory propaganda. Nobody was ever homeless and in this paradise of free education and enlightenment everybody achieved A stars and went on to fulfill the job of their dreams in a world of full employment. If anything nasty ever cropped up it was Maggies fault.Lots of people used to believe that guff Miggo but when the magic money tree died and the cold light of reality intruded, most of us woke up. Those that didn''t are busy following Comrade Corbyn over the cliff.

[ricardo 7,402]

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/apr/22/righteous-mind-jonathan-haidt-review

You might find this illuminating Miggo.

[Herman 9,837]

To be fair New Labour did a good job with the NHS and it worked well when needed. It still does work well but the tories are desparate to privatise it and are using their friends in the media to constantly portray it as failing. A lot of hidden agendas going on?

[MooreMarriot 313]

Shyster/Strawman wrote the following post at 19/10/2015 7:29 PM:

"..ya great pillock...."

"...you dolt...."

"..Tw@t..."

That''s Shyster for you , banned for his obscene fantasies of sex with school girls. So clearly a man whose opinions on other matters we should take seriously.

[mrs miggins 0]

Strawman wrote the following post at 19/10/2015 8:05 PM:

Because of what Labour inflicted on the country from 1997 to 2010 and the inherent stuff on your list that the Conservatives are having to act upon I would imagine

-----------------------------

I don''t care much for Blair either Shyster (and Camoron is basically a clone of him with tory backbenchers behind him). My point is that due to the fact that you''re a right winger, like Ricardo, you don''t seem to be able to admit any of the terrible policies and intentions they have, only picking up on the few good things they''ve done whilst in power (e.g. gay marriage) and ignoring all the terrible points (that make me personally despise this government). Even if you like a certain party, admit it when they do something that is clearly wrong or stupid e.g. Labours naive U turn on the governments fiscal charter - although they made the right decision in the end to oppose the tories plans, they sure took their sweet time about it.

As Ricardo indicates, I''m sure they (tories) think they are doing the right thing by making a whole load of poorer people including children and disabled people even poorer whilst giving tax breaks to millionaires, but to me this seems stupid. It must be said as well however that there are good points within Osbourne''s tax credit cuts where a lot of families will also benefit from it, but imo on the whole his plans are unfair for a lot of families and i''m not surprised that he''s under pressure within his own party to have a rethink. I''m glad that this Labour government and SNP are at least opposing it instead of wanting to do more or less the same thing.

Just to add, notice that whenever a tory MP is asked a question, he/she doesn''t answer it, instead they talk about a strong economy and strong government and how Labour are none of these things; they never answer the question because they can''t. It''s the tory rhetoric and they are the only party to do this to the extent they do.

Question time was on last thursday and a woman who was asking the question started crying because she voted for the tories and now they are making her much poorer due to the tax credit cuts being introduced. I couldn''t help but think she has her own self to blame for voting for them. If you''re middle class, lower middle class or working class, just why would you?

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="mrs miggins"].

Just to add, notice that whenever a tory MP is asked a question, he/she doesn''t answer it, instead they talk about a strong economy and strong government and how Labour are none of these things; they never answer the question because they can''t. It''s the tory rhetoric and they are the only party to do this to the extent they do.

Question time was on last thursday and a woman who was asking the question started crying because she voted for the tories and now they are making her much poorer due to the tax credit cuts being introduced. I couldn''t help but think she has her own self to blame for voting for them. If you''re middle class, lower middle class or working class, just why would you?[/quote]

I think you need to ask yourself how all the good things that people on both sides of the argument want for their country can be paid for without a strong economy. Anybody can present a list of wishful thinking and that''s what most opposition parties do. In the final analysis a welfare state has to be financed and there is a gap between what we would like and what we can afford.Government in hard times requires hard decisions. They tried milking the rich in the 1960''s and that didn''t work because there aren''t enough of them and those that can will soon decamp to other jurisdictions that are a bit less demanding. The top 1% pay 30% of all taxation, frightening them off means they then have to come after the less mobile or make cuts. It''s nothing new, we''ve lived through it all before and it didn''t end well. A reasonable compromise has to be made and depending upon where you stand on the political spectrum will determine where you think that line should be drawn. 

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="Herman "]To be fair New Labour did a good job with the NHS and it worked well when needed. It still does work well but the tories are desparate to privatise it and are using their friends in the media to constantly portray it as failing. A lot of hidden agendas going on?[/quote]As an cancer sufferer myself  I use the Colney Clinic quite a lot and my experience with the NHS has always been good. I paid National Insurance all my life and as long as treatment remains free at the point of demand that''s all that concerns me. I can''t see any overriding reason why government should be in charge of it. Other countries seem to be able to run a free at the point of demand health service without it becoming a political football.

[mrs miggins 0]

Canadians have just got in a liberal government.

This is an article from a few months ago when they were trailing miles behind:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/canada-liberal-party-justin-trudeau-interview-election

Obviously this doesn''t really have any relation to the Labour party but there does seem to be an increasing appetite for more liberal governments whether it be Australia, Canada, Greece and perhaps the US.

Clinton''s popularity in the polls has been decreasing rapidly since May whilst Bernie Saunders has increased in the democratic nominations whilst the joke that is Donald Trump is still just about leading in the polls for the Republicans just ahead of Carson.

[Herman 9,837]

It doesn''t matter what stupid statement Trump comes out with he stills stays popular-ish. And even as a non American, I do wish the Clintons would sod off. The Yanks have a worse choice than us.

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="Herman "]It doesn''t matter what stupid statement Trump comes out with he stills stays popular-ish. And even as a non American, I do wish the Clintons would sod off. The Yanks have a worse choice than us.[/quote]Donald Trump will NOT be the next President of the USA.If Hilary rides out the email scandal she will probably be the first female POTUS.

[mrs miggins 0]

No you''re right he probably won''t but only in America could someone like him be the front runner for the Republicans.

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]No you''re right he probably won''t but only in America could someone like him be the front runner for the Republicans.[/quote]True[Y]

[Herman 9,837]

Good riddance Lord Grabincash.[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lord-grabiner-who-quit-labour-because-he-had-nothing-in-common-with-corbyn-was-director-of-125000-a6707386.html[/url]

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

I expect these two cash for sitting on your arses Lords to vote with the conservatives in next weeks vote, just to get a few more headlines with their names in it. The system is so corrupt that only the abolishment of the Lords and or the replacement with an elected second chamber will suffice. But for that I would like a fair proportional vote, hahaha, if I''m allowed to vote for it at all that is, living half of your life here in England does not equate with being able to vote here in national affairs, I''d have to exchange my passport for a UK version first and swear allegiance, something I can''t fathom or contemplate.

[mrs miggins 0]

Good day for Labour today.

Good day for the most vulnerable as well.

[Herman 9,837]

I see Andrew Lloyd Webber covered himself in glory. Scummy man.

[Herman 9,837]

Harry Leslie Smith should be next labour leader. Or at least Minister of Defence. Top bloke[Y][url]https://twitter.com/Harryslaststand[/url]

[mrs miggins 0]

Labours done very well in Oldham tonight.

Very pleased for them, I think they''ve got a good MP there.

[ricardo 7,402]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Labours done very well in Oldham tonight.

Very pleased for them, I think they''ve got a good MP there.[/quote]There can be no denying that this is a good result for them. They had the best candidate and not a Corbynite.

[mrs miggins 0]

And I see that Nigel Farage is still a (unt.