New Manager

[beelsie 0]

Nicely put Andrew Polley!!

So good to see someone analyse the subject matter and come with a nicely balanced contribution to the thread.

Nice to see that you hav''nt resorted to denouncing Worthy as having no knowledge of the game, as well as the attribute of a blatant inability to select a team. Nice also that you have noticed that to some degree the business acumen of the board have improved, substantially from the Chase era.

Although I am not enamoured with the debt that we carry at leas we are not in recievership. Many of the candidates named as Worthy''s replacements have through their chequered careers been guilty of all the mistakes aimed at Worthy''s door, at some time or other in their careers. The mistakes all contribute to the knowledge and experience that some say Worthy is in need of. It has''nt escaped me that at one time the media reported that Worthy had become a holder of one the top coaching badges in the country. Not bad that for someone lacking experience. Perhaps the badge was given by mistake or was the success criteria adjusted for Worthy''s benefit?

Some of the contributors, unlike you have chosen by their remarks to dismiss his distinguished career as a player that earned the respect of his playing colleagues, one of them being Mr Dowie whom is seen to be a replacement candidate. Mistakes are made by all of us in the search for answers to problems in our chosen careers, some of the problems are not always directly related to what has inevitably been the stumbling bloc, and that is the lack of consistency of a group of players to put in one hundred % of the effort needed for success. However honest any manager can be in his efforts for success, he has to rely on the efforts of eleven men and their efforts on the field.  Whether they are grown up enough to shoulder the responsibility placed on their shoulders is always open to question.  We saw what happened on Sunday. Is that result to be laid at Worthy''s door?

[Morph 19]

[quote]Nicely put Andrew Polley!! So good to see someone analyse the subject matter and come with a nicely balanced contribution to the thread. Nice to see that you hav''nt resorted to denouncing Worthy as ...[/quote]

beelsie, tell me something do you think Worthy has made any mistakes this season with:a) team selection;b) team tactics;c) player handling - motivational or otherwise.If you don''t then that''s fine - clearly all is well in the world of Norwich City. However, if you think he''s made mistakes then.....Like yourself I do think Andrews comments were quite reasonable. The club has taken the approach of ambition with prudence. Quite clearly they are not going to bankrupt the club in the pursuit of silverware or Premiership existence - for that I think we would all applaud them. Part of that plan seems to be to retain the managerial hierarchy in place to give them time to execute the plan that they seem to have for the club.The ultimate goal seems to be to become an established Premiership club in the mould of say Charlton/Bolton et al. City would be able to hold their own and in good seasons push for that UEFA spot.The big question still remains for many of the doubting posters, myself included, that Worthington is the man to get us to the next level. He got us up to the Premiership. He made a fight of our season in the Premiership. The question now is:a) can he get us there again;b) more importantly, can he then keep us there and allow us to grow into the club many of us want the club to be.There is doubt from many posters that Worthy can take the club to the next level which is why you will continue to see posts like we have here from FMF, Tumbleweed and others - posts that question what Worthy has done. His season has not been flawless by any means. Have his mistakes cost us this season? Tough one that one and I''m sure you''d have as many yeas as nays....

[FatMan Fat 0]

At long last a really decent thread on the question of Mr Worthington, with both sides in the main putting across reasonable arguements.

I almost feel vindicated in my beliefs after being called "eloquent" and the "voice of reason"

A wiser man than me once said, "Opinions cause arguements, facts resolve them".

Right now wehave a lot of opinions being voices, hence the arguements.

Now, what were those facts again...

Goals against; points away from home; finishing position

[Ruddy Good 0]

Give the man a chance everybody. He has done well considering the squad we had going into the Premmie and with 8 games to go being 8 points off safety to then go into the last game with your destiny in your own hands is quite an achievement. I admit he has made some errors over the season but dont all managers?? Give him until Christmas and if we are mid-table or below then maybe the Board should think about getting another manager in. Under NO circumstances should Worthy be dismissed over the summer. He did a good job in the Premmie considering what finances he got and the squad he had.

[YankeeCanary 0]

You should have listened a little longer to that wiser man FatMan. He probably would have told you that "Opinions cause arguments, ALL of the facts resolve them". This would then allow you to make your points without your personal bias constantly being on display ( particularly on this subject ). For example, what were those facts again:

Goals against; points away from home; finishing position; operating on a very small budget by Premiership standards but wanting to be in the strongest financial position possible if relegated; minimal playing staff with top level experience. So, versus those we were on a level playing field with, all is not gloom and doom. The facts are WBA scraped through having spent a lot more money, Southampton finished below us having a lot more Premiership playing and management experience, and Palace had the same record as us but a better goal average. Negative observation of our team/clubs performance will carry much more weight next season if the club fails to continue to build in the right way but, if they do, Nigel fails to have us challenging for promotion. They, my friend are the the salient facts and, may I add, a more complete assessment than you care to deliver.

[FatMan Fat 0]

[quote]You should have listened a little longer to that wiser man FatMan. He probably would have told you that "Opinions cause arguments, ALL of the facts resolve them". This would then allow you to make y...[/quote]

Well I am pleased that YC accepts that my opinion about Worthington have been constant

Eventually other people will begin to see that there are many, many problems within the Club and the squad in those areas that are down to Worthington. He is responsible for the composition of the squad, tactics, coaching, selections, and he is responsible for the ultimate playing result - every manager in whatever walk of life ultimately gets the team that they deserve. This squad is Worthington''s squad and he is accountable for the results.

Even if we get promoted again it doesn''t make Worthington a good manager if obvious problems still exist in the areas that I and other posters have expressed our concerns about.

Just suppose we had had a different manager last season, or even a part of last season. Would that different manager have been able to improve the tactics and coaching? Would that different manager have been able to make team selections that owed more to ability than loyalty? Would that different manager have been able to prevent us leaking so many goals?Would that different manager been able to inspire the team to prevent just one more goal being scored against in 3 or 4 defining matches last season? Would that different manager have been able to inspire the team to score just one more goal in several defining matches last season? Would that different manager prevented the most abysmal performance of the season in the ONE game that our whole season depended on?

Hypothetical I know.  But I happen to believe that if a different manager had created a "yes" to any of those questions then we would still be a Premiership side. The fact that Worthington failed in each of those areas reinforced the opinions that I have held about him for a considerable period of time running well into last season.

[ZLF 274]

[quote]You should have listened a little longer to that wiser man FatMan. He probably would have told you that "Opinions cause arguments, ALL of the facts resolve them". This would then allow you to make y...[/quote]

You are right YC that the club does continue to progress and financially & structurally they continue to do so.  However the prime responsibility for that lies with the board and Doomcaster. 

However the fans accept that the budget was always going to be limited (some accepting more readily than others admittedly) and as you point out flashing the cash buys you nil points during the season.

What I look for from a manager is the impact he has in putting his squad together within that budget, the discipline he instils, the tactics he uses and the teams he picks.

• Squad - he does discard well each season and who he bought last summer left us with a squad that was actually good enough to survive and bears good comparison with WBA on a far smaller budget - well done NW
• Discipline - without a doubt Worthy is the master of his ship and, from Wengers approval of the ''ave it affair does it well.  Some may not agree with his methods (his way or no way is not always the best) but most importantly it does seem to work for our club
• Tactically - the word most frequently used by the media is naive and that does sum him up. Defending to deep (after 4 seasons it is NOT the players), playing a 4-4-2 with no left midfield protection, unable to play against a 4-5-1 formation, ''unusual'' substitution choices, failure to respond to opponents changes (Ferguson at home to Everton, Dickov at home to Blackburn), constant tinkering early season with formation - diamonds! - that should have been done pre season and a failure to identify how to best use the talent at his disposal (Bentley & Hux)  are some of his shortfalls.
• Team selection continues to confound and surprise - failure to identify under performers at all if not quickly enough, a suggested blame culture (Helveg after 1 poor game, McVeigh against Spurs at Xmas, Charlie against Rovers away) and blatant favouritism for the old guard suggesting he did not have faith in his new signings

Since NW joined us his learning curve has been visible and steep.  Last season was a big step up and I dont think he made that leap; he was not alone and many of the players failed too.  The challenge for our nige is whether he can learn from it and push on again.   My concern is that many of the ''issues'' have been there for a couple of seasons and dont look like changing. 

As such I worry that he is no longer learning.  If that is the case he will not take this club the next step, which is to stay in the prem the next time we get promoted

The signs as to whether he has heeded the lessons of this last painfull but exciting season start immediately (& I feel have started well) by cutting out the chaff from the squad, looking to retain personnel (Deano, Shacks, Leon, Greeno, Francis & Helveg(is a priority having let eddy go)&nbsp and bringing in players in the right part of the pitch (Midfield top priority then defence).  As the season starts the formation and tactical side will come to the fore and 12-15 games will give us an understanding to the progress being made there.

Worthy standing still and not developing is the same as our club stagnating at a playing level; I am not prepared to go another set of season levelling off when we should be pushing on towards re-promotion and consolidation in the prem.   Of cour

[Saint Canary 0]

I am going to add my opinion in spite of all the facts

I sit firmly in the middle of this argument and I am neither very pleased or very disappointed with Worthy.  To start with I think he did extremely well to get us promoted and it was even more impressive that he did as Champions.  Player for player, there were clubs in that league that were much better than us on paper but we had the best team and that is down to Worthy.  In my opinion he achieved more that season than anyone ever expected.

On the negative side of Worthy  I agree with most that has said about but I would like to add a point.  Our midfield this year was the biggest cause of our defensive problems. No one was tackling in the midfield area instead they just backed off, our defence was pushed back further and further and put under too much pressure.  The blame for this has to be laid at Worthy''s door.  Of the players used in midfield this year, more than half of them are not midfielders.  Helveg, Jonson, Bentley, Hux, McVeigh, Svensson, Charlton and Henderson will all tell you that midfield is not their best position.  Worthy has to be held responsible for putting square pegs into round holes!

[beelsie 0]

Interesting Morph!

Team selection, I have to assume that NW has info about players that is not available to me.  However as a watcher of football over the past 50 years +, when the team selected appears on the field of contest, there are many aspects of play that are woefully inadequate, many of those inadequacies have been pointed out many times on the boards.  Most important IMO is the lack bite in mid field. This factor has been present in the last two seasons.  There appears to be a inerrant fear in those given the job, to tackle and take responsibility.  We are fearful of getting close enough to dangerous players and shut them down quickly enough.  Reason : Lack of talent? Lack of effort and/or desire? Poor coaching? while these all appear to be in the brief of manager.  If he is to manage the club first and foremost.What are his options when it comes to employing top class coaching staff? What is available in money terms to Worthy when it comes to the buying of these important members of staff to coach the players. How many experienced coaching staff members are unemployed or indeed ready to take an interest in coming to Norwich for what is bound to be a struggle in both money and talent terms. I bet that if Man UTD advertised for such staff there would be a glut of applicants, If it was poor old Norwich advertising there would be a different story. It will be the same on the player front.

Tactics and player handling: Piling back into the penalty area in great numbers comes back to coaching and lack of confidence.  Mobility and running off the ball. The same. There has to be the will to graft which I see lacking in our players. They have to be self motivated enough all the time.

The aspects of City''s approach to the game is in the hands of the players that the city has at its disposal, players that we can afford are unlikely to be of consistent class and motivation.  Every team from the 6th spot down is looking desperately for such players. I could go on and on and analyse YC''s good input and possibly write a book with the results.

Yes! Worthy can keep us up, if we gain Premiership status again, but only if he can address the points above and is able to attract the footballers necessary for the task.  We are looking for good boys who are also possession the necessary grit, and as he has said many times, will they be prepared to put their heads where the feet are flying.  These types of players generally want more money than N City can afford to pay.