AC Milan Released Pirlo (Holt related topic)

[AndyCanary 0]

AC Milan released Pirlo at the end of the 2010/11 season. Unofficially it was stated that he was too old.He went to Juventus and won their player of the season.It got me thinking about age and the Grant Holt saga.. I''ve always believed that if GH went on from here he''d be less successful, but I wonder if that''s just my Yellow and Green tinted glasses? What do you think?Are there any other examples of clubs letting players go because of age who''ve gone on to have egg on their face?

[Jacko 0]

Interestingly enough Pirlo was also handed a 3 year contract by Juventus. I guess the difference between someone like Pirlo and Holt is that Pirlo is a supreb technician. That ability never really leaves you as have been shown by the performances of Giggs and Scholes this season. So it allows you to prolong your career. Holt is a very clever player but has an all action style and relies heavily on the physical attributes of his game. Could there be an argument his career has a shorter shelf life as result? Then again I guess you look at someone like Kevin Davies who is a similar type of player and he is still playing at 35. I guess it ulimately depends on the individual, how their body holds up and what their lifestyle is like.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="Jacko"]

Interestingly enough Pirlo was also handed a 3 year contract by Juventus. I guess the difference between someone like Pirlo and Holt is that Pirlo is a supreb technician. That ability never really leaves you as have been shown by the performances of Giggs and Scholes this season. So it allows you to prolong your career. Holt is a very clever player but has an all action style and relies heavily on the physical attributes of his game. Could there be an argument his career has a shorter shelf life as result? Then again I guess you look at someone like Kevin Davies who is a similar type of player and he is still playing at 35. I guess it ulimately depends on the individual, how their body holds up and what their lifestyle is like.

[/quote]I think you make a great point. Although thankfully Holts game very rarely relies on pace and when it does it''s more thanks to his positioning and his pace isn''t great.I think his position does suffer more from age but his best attributes (Strength, positioning) don''t so much. I guess his agility will be the real cruncher. But then again look how much more agile he has been this season that previous seasons. He seemed to have really upped his game as shown by goals like the one against Everton.

[Gingerpele 0]

It may be a NCFC bias (although I like to think, maybe incorrectly, that I, as well as other fans are capable at looking at things without being biased) but I don''t think he will do half as well at another club.

To be honest, he''s done brilliantly here, and I blame his agent (wether thats right or wrong, I don''t really care :P) for all the recent happenings. So I still ''love'' Grant Holt, and i''d want him to do elsewhere, its nice to see former NCFC players, wether they were a success or failure or somewhere in between succeeding away from the cub. Its nice looking through the results in the lower leagues and seeing various former players names pop up as goal scorers.

So if Holt left i''d wish him the best, wanting him to do well (not well enough to do us harm though obviously) but I doubt, perhaps unless he does follow Lambert, he''d do half as well. The past two seasons, my Grandad amongst many have doubted Holt would score many, last season my Grandad was going to put a bet on Holt not reaching double figures... Thats a perception of Holt, that perhaps at the start of the past two seasons he ''deserved'' because he hadn''t achieved at this level, or even really at Championship level (not all down to him there, is it Mr. Calderwood).

He fits into this team, his style of play is perhaps the ''main'' feature of our team, but its complemented well by the other players. Surely there is multiple reasons he has not even made it in the Championship before joining us? Now he''s made it in the top division, and can''t have been too far away from an international call up, perhaps if he were Danny Grahams age (or they swapped goal tallies and performances) he would have been in the squad.

Pirlo is a special player, and can''t be literally compared to Holt for a few reasons. Milan made a huge error in judgement, you could easily say that decision gave Juve the title last season. Its obviously all up to Holt now, Hughton wants him, the fans (majority anyway) still want him, his team mates probably want him. He may have been dis-respected, upset, what ever by the club, but surely it can''t be too hard to put that behind him, get an improved contract and score the winner on the opening day for us?

[BroadstairsR 2,227]

How footballer''s develop with age is unpredictable with the likes of Sheringham, Scholes and Giggs, along with many others, defying their birthdates.

 

Holt''s whole career has been non-conformist so who can predict the value of his contribution in two years time? To a certain extent, his performances last season went above and  beyond that to be expected of a thirty-one years old "pub player." Adaptability has not been lacking, that''s for sure.

 

Even a forty years old GH would likely be better than is that one-trick pony (tail) called Andy Carroll, in my resentful opinion.

 

I sometimes think that age, like a big transfer fee, gives us a pre-conception of a player which is not always valid.

 

We have already lost two legends in recent years because this factor was possibly (Roberts) and certainly (Huckerby) over-stated. I would now add Adam Drury to that list, whilst we have had the likes of Joe Royle, Mick Channon, Martin O''Neill and Martin Peters as success stories at Carrow Road in the past because their former clubs considered them past their best.

 

Sir Stanley turned up at the Carra aged forty, for a start and apparently many of these African players in the game today are older than they, or their birth certificates claim. 

 

     

[lake district canary 0]

Largely in aggreement with previous two posts.  Holt has improved year on year, risen to the challenge and there is no reason he won''t rise to the challenge again, whether he stays here or not.    31 is nothing these days.   Holt has looked after himself, got himself fitter and leaner.  As a result he is quicker and his agility has improved.   The turn and shot with his ''wrong'' foot against MU  was worthy of any top striker at his peak.    He has more about his general play than alot of strikers and at 31 is still at his peak - who could say different?   

 

 

Age is often taken as a guide to someone''s ability - in all walks of life.   I remember two teachers at college - both supposedly at the top of their profession - one appeared tired, cynical and non-enthusiastic - the other could have been just starting out - his enthusiasm was inspiring.   Both in their sixties - both completely different in their outlook. 

 

 

What anyone should be judged on is the ability to do their job.  We have, as has been said, had many players here over the years that have been that experienced - so called over age players.    31?   Spring chicken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phillip J Fry 0]

The physical attributes of Holts'' game (strength, stamina) will start to fade, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. To compare Pirlo, a deep lying playmaker who expends as little energy as possible for maximum results, to Grant Holt is laughable. If Holt stays professional and works harder year after year to just keep his physical attributes as they are, then maybe he could play at the top level for another two years (any longer and he would be a bit part player at best). I love Grant Holt and his style, but it is, quite frankly, baffling that Holt is even being compared with Pirlo who plays in a completely different way in a much less physically demanding league. 

[Billabong 0]

Egg on Face - That would have to be Man Utd, after releasing Denis Law for being to old in 1973/74.

Denis Law went to Man City and in the last game of the season scores the only goal in a game against Man Utd.

Man Utd were relegated that year with Norwich!

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="Gareth"]The physical attributes of Holts'' game (strength, stamina) will start to fade, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. To compare Pirlo, a deep lying playmaker who expends as little energy as possible for maximum results, to Grant Holt is laughable. If Holt stays professional and works harder year after year to just keep his physical attributes as they are, then maybe he could play at the top level for another two years (any longer and he would be a bit part player at best). I love Grant Holt and his style, but it is, quite frankly, baffling that Holt is even being compared with Pirlo who plays in a completely different way in a much less physically demanding league. [/quote]That''s a short sighted view. Do you think that Pirlo has always played that way or do you think he adapted his game with age? Similar to Giggs.I wasn''t comparing Grant Holt with Pirlo, perhaps I''ve given you too much credit on your ability to read into a comment. I''ll reiterate my point:AC Milan saw Pirlo as too old > They released him.Norwich say Holt is too old for a 3 year contract > They risk losing him as a resultMy point was whether the circumstances are the same and whether Holt could go on to another club and prove the club wrong.Does that make it easier for you to understand? Just for a final bit of clarification for you: I am not comparing Pirlo as a player in any capacity to Grant Holt. Purely circumstantial.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Gareth"]The physical attributes of Holts'' game (strength, stamina) will start to fade, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. To compare Pirlo, a deep lying playmaker who expends as little energy as possible for maximum results, to Grant Holt is laughable. If Holt stays professional and works harder year after year to just keep his physical attributes as they are, then maybe he could play at the top level for another two years (any longer and he would be a bit part player at best). I love Grant Holt and his style, but it is, quite frankly, baffling that Holt is even being compared with Pirlo who plays in a completely different way in a much less physically demanding league. [/quote]

 

 

 

To my mind its more an age comparison than ability comparison.    You could not compare the two players in any other way as they are otherwise  poles apart.   The age thing is something people are quick to latch on to.  But there are countless players that are going on into their mid thirties and still performing well.    Holt has got fitter and leaner.  He could still improve his flexibilty and agilty, even if his  stamina or ''legs'' may lessen over the next three or four years.    I go back to the ''attitude'' idea.   If a player in the later stages of his career has kept his enthusiasm, kept his desire to play - and kept his fitness - there is no reason to suppose anything other than that they will be able to perform.  Sheringham.  Dublin.  Peters - etc etc.  

 

 

The ultimate truth is that we don''t know how long Holt or any other player can go on for at the top level once they are over thirty.   But, if they are performing well I see no reason to dismiss them because they are 30, 31, or any other age.      Again, it''s people putting labels on them that is the problem, not the players themselves.  

 

 

 

 

[star_manic 0]

there is no doubt that some players, like wine, improve with age, for some unknown reason. think of linford christie in athletics, at the peak of his powers at 36. no other sprinter has even come close to emulating this feat. is it possible that holt is in the same mould? there is no doubt that the holt in league two and the holt last season were two different animals ( excuse the expression ).

[star_manic 0]

i don''t know where the "BLOCKED EXPRESSION" came from, certainly not me, i just used lower case "expression".

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="Gareth"]The physical attributes of Holts'' game (strength, stamina) will start to fade, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. To compare Pirlo, a deep lying playmaker who expends as little energy as possible for maximum results, to Grant Holt is laughable. If Holt stays professional and works harder year after year to just keep his physical attributes as they are, then maybe he could play at the top level for another two years (any longer and he would be a bit part player at best). I love Grant Holt and his style, but it is, quite frankly, baffling that Holt is even being compared with Pirlo who plays in a completely different way in a much less physically demanding league. [/quote]That''s a short sighted view. Do you think that Pirlo has always played that way or do you think he adapted his game with age? Similar to Giggs.I wasn''t comparing Grant Holt with Pirlo, perhaps I''ve given you too much credit on your ability to read into a comment. I''ll reiterate my point:AC Milan saw Pirlo as too old > They released him.Norwich say Holt is too old for a 3 year contract > They risk losing him as a resultMy point was whether the circumstances are the same and whether Holt could go on to another club and prove the club wrong.Does that make it easier for you to understand? Just for a final bit of clarification for you: I am not comparing Pirlo as a player in any capacity to Grant Holt. Purely circumstantial. [/quote]

Ah, my mistake.

What I''m trying too point out is though would be that Grant Holt would have to go through a fundamental change in the way he played the game to continue to play at the highest level when physical attributes start to fail, the question then becomes is Grant Holt a varied and intelligent enough player (Giggs is a great example) to change aspects of his game to deal with the idea that attributes that he has relied on for so long leaving him? In my opinion, yes. I think Grant Holt has proven year on year that he is able to adapt his game whenever he needs to. Look at the evolution in style from League 1 to Championship to Premier League. Each year Holt has been at the club his attitude towards the game has developed and changed and I think Holt could do it again, when stamina and strength become harder to maintain. I also think that Holt is professional enough (most of the time) to continue working to maintain his strength/stamina as he gets older.

And your right it would look incredibly stupid if we sell Grant Holt to another club who sign him on a three year deal and he proceeds to score lots of goals over the course of the years. To compare his situation to Pirlo is correct, to a point, but I would like to point out that a player like Pirlo (a proven deep lying play maker who has never changed his playing style) represents nowhere near the gamble of signing a striker like Holt (one who relies heavily on strength and physicality) to a three year deal. 

[AndyCanary 0]

I think the thing that is different with GH though is that his strongest attributes (as I said before) aren''t the type of attribute which are the most likely to suffer from age. I''m not sure if GH''s stamina is one of his best attributes. His strength, positioning and agility for a big guy are.So if GH is 31 now and we give him a 3 year deal that means he''ll be 34 when it expires. 34 isn''t old, but it is an old age to be a striker in the EPL. The question is whether GH would be the kind of player to stick around to earn his EPL pay whilst knowing he won''t be playing? I reckon he''d want to play and would take a pay cut to do so, so he''d move.