We need to talk about The System

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

26 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

You can not apply 'traditional' positions to the modern game, how many wingers get to the byline and put balls into the box now?  They're mainly inverted and the full backs allow the space through overloading.

Likewise, a modern winger tracks back and supports the full-back too.  All these are Sainz's qualities.

Rowe is too selfish and lacks the stamina to come close to supporting the team, and Onel just lacks the quality.  This is why we look better as a team when they're both outside of it.  If I had my way Onel, PP & Springett would've been sent out start of season and we'd have Tzolis in the mix as a much higher quality player too.

I don't see anything wrong with this system, and I certainly wouldn't be claiming that removing wingers like Sainz would be a good idea.  It always comes down to quality of player.  Man City could play long ball and still smash teams.

That's much closer to what Hernandez is compared to Sainz and even Rowe - and I agree that Rowe's stamina is a problem, indeed I've said that earlier as well.

You see Sainz as a winger though, and I don't. Cantwell was hardly a pure winger either.

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

You see Sainz as a winger though, and I don't. Cantwell was hardly a pure winger either.

We haven't had a 'traditional' or 'pure' winger for many years to even suggest that we should stop playing with them, though?  So i'm not sure what trumpet you're blowing that goes against how we set up start of the season anyway? 

I just see us playing the same with the overloading out wide and it works great when we have players fit.  Hand on heart, I wouldn't like us to swap Stacey into a wingback and bring Sainz central so he could be used more defensively.  His strength, as per all the great wingers (Messi/Bale/Ronaldo/Salah etc) is starting from that wide position to pick the ball up and gain momentum with it at feet.

As explained before, I believe the difference in not having Onel and Rowe in the team is that we have players who retain the ball better which in turn makes us play better, I don't see any kind of grand system change.  They're all come inside players, but quality aside, whether it's due to body mass or whatever, they make Sainz look like Legolas in regards to stamina!  😉

And let's have it right here, Onel and Rowe were cheap options, as was PP and Springett.  If we kept quality wide players such as Tzolis and Rashica we would have more pace, confidence and quality, also and would be tearing up this league.

Rowe has worked out in regards to his ability to net when Sarge was injured, but he's not a 90 min team player yet, and far off that, Hence why so many were saying that our performances were not sustainable over that period.

Edited March 17 by Google Bot

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

We haven't had a 'traditional' or 'pure' winger for many years to even suggest that we should stop playing with them, though?  So i'm not sure what trumpet you're blowing that goes against how we set up start of the season anyway? 

I just see us playing the same with the overloading out wide and it works great when we have players fit.  Hand on heart, I wouldn't like us to swap Stacey into a wingback and bring Sainz central so he could be used more defensively.  His strength, as per all the great wingers (Messi/Bale/Ronaldo/Salah etc) is starting from that wide position to pick the ball up and gain momentum with it at feet.

As explained before, I believe the difference in not having Onel and Rowe in the team is that we have players who retain the ball better which in turn makes us play better, I don't see any kind of grand system change.  They're all come inside players, but quality aside, whether it's due to body mass or whatever, they make Sainz look like Legolas in regards to stamina!  😉

And let's have it right here, Onel and Rowe were cheap options, as was PP and Springett.  If we kept quality wide players such as Tzolis and Rashica we would have more pace, confidence and quality, also and would be tearing up this league.

Rowe has worked out in regards to his ability to net when Sarge was injured, but he's not a 90 min team player yet, and far off that, Hence why so many were saying that our performances were not sustainable over that period.

Onel's much closer to a pure winger, so was Placheta, and Rowe's more of an inside forward. I agree that we still have the overloading out wide, but I maintain the players we now have in the wide attacking positions play it somewhat narrower than the players that are missing. It's easier to retain the ball effectively when the players are a bit closer together! Look where Sainz was when he picked the ball up to score against Rotherham - he was pretty much in central midfield and I'm certain Lungi's ball was pinged at McCallum a good twenty yards further over, but Sainz took it down and thought he'd have a go.

It's not a grand system change, it's just a tweak/shift along a spectrum so we're not quite as open if losing the ball. I'm not sure we'd have more pace with Tzolis (and his workrate was sometimes lacking a bit), and Rashica was inconsistent beyond belief with something of an attitude problem and an equally inconsistent end product. I'd take Sainz over both of those players every day of the week. I do think with those two you mentioned we'd be less solid out of possession and wouldn't be so confident we'd hit this run of form we're on.

[Jim Smith 2,319]

Injuries obviously offer some mitigation for Wagner for the run earlier in the season but they do not excuse it entirely. He should have been able to adapt better to keep us competitive and it also should be remembered that for quite a while he was choosing not to play Sainz and Nunez who are now integral cogs in our new set up.

So I will give him some credit for persevering and managing to find a system and shape that now works for us when we have our best players available although it’s also relevant that those players are very good and will have too much for most sides at this level going forward.

if there are two cautionary notes they are that spells at QPR and Blackburn plus the Boro game show what happens when we let our intensity drop and do not press and play on the front foot. This side is not good enough defensively to let the intensity drop. Also as good as we were when attacking, I thought there was some really, really poor defensive marking at times v Stoke and a better side might have got back into that game.

As ever, complacency our biggest enemy. Let the workrate drop and we will still concede chances. 

 

[Google Bot 3,278]

53 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

He should have been able to adapt better to keep us competitive and it also should be remembered that for quite a while he was choosing not to play Sainz and Nunez who are now integral cogs in our new set up.

I definitely agree on this, but i've said it multiple times in the past that we don't know what brief he was working under Webber.

If I had to guess I think his job was to come into this club, stable the ship, unlock value in players like Rowe and AO and define a system, and I think this generally continued to the point that Knapper came in.

Since then we've had players return so it's hard to know therefore if the brief changed to prioritise results over system, or if it was a combination of the two.  

There's a buoyancy and confidence to us now, and that's something that a stable system and level of expectancy provides, even when it's all going to **** around you, it's paying dividends today as we look fluid in playing the ball and clinical on the attack, everyone is very well drilled when you watch movement off the ball too.