Is it time to stop relying on loan signings?

[chicken 2,685]

12 hours ago, Move Klose said:

£14m for those 2 doesn't look great business. Our model of signing players cheap, them progressing and selling them on for a profit won't come into play with those 2. The only new player we have a chance of making a profit on is Rashica and that won't be by much.

Who's going to pay 10 plus million for Tzolis and Sargent, or 5m for PLM

Buendia wasn't suddenly worth £35m though. When we were promoted we were probably looking at a value of around £10m on an investment that by that point had cost £4.5m plus what we paid to buy out the sell on clause.

Tzolis and Sargent have every potential to be worth more. Lets not forget that players regularly go from the championship to the premier league for around £10m.

We have to hope both are happy to remain at the club next season and are played more regularly though, otherwise yes, they will not get back their value. That said, if they do well next season and are part of a team that regains promotion, in some ways, they were already a worthy investment.

PLM was never one we were looking to make a profit on. You don't sign a 28 year old to make a profit really. You sign a play in and around their peak to perform. I think he could come good next season like Vrancic and Rupp before him. He'll be 29 in May. Then again, £3.5m is peanuts in the PL these days. 

[CDMullins 456]

3 hours ago, chicken said:

Buendia wasn't suddenly worth £35m though. When we were promoted we were probably looking at a value of around £10m on an investment that by that point had cost £4.5m plus what we paid to buy out the sell on clause.

Tzolis and Sargent have every potential to be worth more. Lets not forget that players regularly go from the championship to the premier league for around £10m.

We have to hope both are happy to remain at the club next season and are played more regularly though, otherwise yes, they will not get back their value. That said, if they do well next season and are part of a team that regains promotion, in some ways, they were already a worthy investment.

PLM was never one we were looking to make a profit on. You don't sign a 28 year old to make a profit really. You sign a play in and around their peak to perform. I think he could come good next season like Vrancic and Rupp before him. He'll be 29 in May. Then again, £3.5m is peanuts in the PL these days. 

Based on what?

Tzolis can't get a kick,

And Sargent is woeful, painfully woeful. Only NCFC could spend that sort of money on him

[chicken 2,685]

17 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Based on what?

Tzolis can't get a kick,

And Sargent is woeful, painfully woeful. Only NCFC could spend that sort of money on him

Based on the same old folks saying the same thing season in, season out and very rarely being right.

First season in English football. More experienced players struggle. Young players with values attached to them that suggest instant repayment likely struggle more.

Vrancic, Stiepermann, Rupp, Leitner, Hernandez... were all criticised when they first arrived. Hell, even Tettey.

You also have to remember that both Tzolis and Sargent didn't have a pre-season at Norwich. They didn't even get the benefit of adapting to the culture etc over the summer.

Write them off now by all means, but it's quite embarrassing to do so and shows little understanding of the game.

[CDMullins 456]

20 minutes ago, chicken said:

Based on the same old folks saying the same thing season in, season out and very rarely being right.

First season in English football. More experienced players struggle. Young players with values attached to them that suggest instant repayment likely struggle more.

Vrancic, Stiepermann, Rupp, Leitner, Hernandez... were all criticised when they first arrived. Hell, even Tettey.

You also have to remember that both Tzolis and Sargent didn't have a pre-season at Norwich. They didn't even get the benefit of adapting to the culture etc over the summer.

Write them off now by all means, but it's quite embarrassing to do so and shows little understanding of the game.

How many of them did we sell for £10 Million?

[chicken 2,685]

1 minute ago, CDMullins said:

How many of them did we sell for £10 Million?

Mainly due to their age, none. A player isn't just valuable for sale though, and the point I was making is that all did better in their 2nd season. Not that we made money on them. Your argument is that they wont be worth any money, mine was to point out judging a 20yr old and a recently 22yr old on the back of their first, ill prepared season in English football and the toughest league in the world, is more than a tad harsh. AND that there is precedent for players coming good in their 2nd season - in fact, this is relatively common knowledge and nothing new, so to dismiss it is rather curious. 

Plenty of Championship strikers have gone to the premier league for £10m+ on the back of a good season. Same with wingers. We made money on Pritchard and both the Murpheys for example. As an example of the positions they play - just to be clear. Arguably all because we played them and gave them value. 

[CDMullins 456]

5 minutes ago, chicken said:

Mainly due to their age, none. A player isn't just valuable for sale though, and the point I was making is that all did better in their 2nd season. Not that we made money on them. Your argument is that they wont be worth any money, mine was to point out judging a 20yr old and a recently 22yr old on the back of their first, ill prepared season in English football and the toughest league in the world, is more than a tad harsh. AND that there is precedent for players coming good in their 2nd season - in fact, this is relatively common knowledge and nothing new, so to dismiss it is rather curious. 

Plenty of Championship strikers have gone to the premier league for £10m+ on the back of a good season. Same with wingers. We made money on Pritchard and both the Murpheys for example. As an example of the positions they play - just to be clear. Arguably all because we played them and gave them value. 

Tzolis has some potential but if he doesn't perform next season, there's no way were recouping anywhere near the reported £10 Million we paid.

Ad we'll never get that back for Sargent aslong as he has an hole in is you know what.

[chicken 2,685]

4 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Tzolis has some potential but if he doesn't perform next season, there's no way were recouping anywhere near the reported £10 Million we paid.

Ad we'll never get that back for Sargent aslong as he has an hole in is you know what.

We didn't pay £10m. It was £8.8m rising with add ons. Sargent was £8m, and if they can both show the sort of form they did against Bournemouth in the cup, I'm sure both will make their money back and some.

[CDMullins 456]

4 minutes ago, chicken said:

We didn't pay £10m. It was £8.8m rising with add ons. Sargent was £8m, and if they can both show the sort of form they did against Bournemouth in the cup, I'm sure both will make their money back and some.

Yeah, forget about every other game they've played.

[chicken 2,685]

11 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Yeah, forget about every other game they've played.

Again, you miss the point.

You are really attempting to make some very poor points which just don't work.

No one has said to forget about the performances this season, and you'll note I said "if they can" 'IF'. You are writing them off already. Which is poor show. Should we do that with every player we sign, we wouldn't have many. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

7 hours ago, chicken said:

Buendia wasn't suddenly worth £35m though. When we were promoted we were probably looking at a value of around £10m on an investment that by that point had cost £4.5m plus what we paid to buy out the sell on clause.

Tzolis and Sargent have every potential to be worth more. Lets not forget that players regularly go from the championship to the premier league for around £10m.

We have to hope both are happy to remain at the club next season and are played more regularly though, otherwise yes, they will not get back their value. That said, if they do well next season and are part of a team that regains promotion, in some ways, they were already a worthy investment.

PLM was never one we were looking to make a profit on. You don't sign a 28 year old to make a profit really. You sign a play in and around their peak to perform. I think he could come good next season like Vrancic and Rupp before him. He'll be 29 in May. Then again, £3.5m is peanuts in the PL these days. 

Really good Championship players are going for 20 million now. Tzolis may leave because he is unhappy. But if he stays, and gets the right support, I see him being a really good player next season. If he helps get us promoted then its 9 million well spent. Let us remember we bought him at 19 years old, same age we bought Maddison and then loaned him out because he wasn’t good enough for the Championship.