Simon Lappin, King Of Spain

[quote user="Lord Snooty"] [quote user="matt crowhurst"]i think gunny has been harshly treated myself and i would be prepared to give him six months until January to see what he can do with his own team not one inherited from that useless twat Roeder, and i know some people will say that gunny was head of player recruitment but Roeder still only signed the players he wanted, which gunny proved when he took over by getting players in that Roeder had previously turned down (Lee and Gow for example) tin hat time I''m guessing [/quote]   I completely agree with what you say. I am sick of the vitriol and unpleasantness aimed at Gunn. I was at the Charlton game and the chants were aimed at the players and the Board but none were aimed at Gunn. All the players should have been "up for it" against Charlton, Reading and Ipswich with zero need to be motivated by any manager but most of them were inherited by Gunn from that so and so Roeder. Significantly, the ones that did play their socks off were players brought in by Gunn. Give him a decent period of time to prove himself, let him have his clear out and let''s see who he brings in and how a team forged by Gunn, Butterworth and Crook performs. [/quote] Yes but the whole reason for employing him despite his inexperience was so that he could use his passion for the club to motivate the players and get the best out of them. He was unable to do so in our last three games and the good work he had done up to that point was wasted. Our fate was practically decided by the losses to Ipswich and Reading where the whole team vitually went missing for long periods, properly motivated players should not do that. This is why I don''t believe he''s ready for the job. He was also unable to sufficiently motivate the players for the last game of the season, when there was still a slim hope of salvation and I just don''t think that can be ignored. It didn''t matter in the end but a win would have at least shown that he could put some fire in their bellys and get them to fight fo the right to wear the shirt. Furthermore I think the only player who started on sunday who Roeader actually signed was Clingan and he has been one of our best players this season. If so (please correct me if i''m wrong), then you cannot really use the argument that it was his predecessors poor signings that were at the root of the apparent lack of effort. Additionally playing Shackell at left back was one of the strangest formation decisons I have ever seen and as all three of Charlton''s goals came down our left flank it proved to be utterly disastrous. Not only did it limit us defensively as Lloyd Sam ran rings around him, it also meant we had very little attacking outlet down the left as he is not the kind of player to make surging runs and support the left wing. Therefore the only way we could relieve any pressure was through Semmy (who had a shocker) and Korey Smith (who showed his inexperience but was still immense). Lappin would have been a much more sensible choice in the absence of Bertrand and proved to be so when he formation was changed with the introduction of McDonald.  In the most important game of his career to make such mistakes is unfortunalely inexcusable. I love the bloke he is an absolute legend and I hope he makes it as a manager in the future but if that is what he wants then he needs to go an learn his craft and make his mistakes somewhere else. We have seen our club brought to its lowest point in half a century, I know he is by no means the only person culpable for that, but I don''t think we can afford to let him make any more mistakes 

If Robins really is being interviewed for the job then just let him dictate terms, if he''s happy to have Crook and Butters then great, if not then get rid, or let him choose some combination inbetween. We need to be a little bit ruthless here, i''m not saying treat the current management team like muck, but ultimately the furture of the club is on the line, if the board make any more bad decisions then the results could be catastrophic (even more so than they already are!).The board have spent too long reinforcing their past failures by refusing to act decisively until it''s too late, they need to act now to appoint the right man and give him enough time to rebuild the team over the summer break.  What appears certain is that if Robins takes he job then Deehan will go, if so Gunn could move back into his old post with a handshake and a pat on the back and no loss of face. He was not the man for the job due to his lack of experiecne and he cannot truly be blamed for the situation the club is, the rot runs a lot deeper than the current management team. His loan signings once out of the shadow of Roeder appear to have been pretty good (remember Roeder would have had the final say on any loan or transfer so Gunn cannot be blamed for some of the dross that GR brought into the club), so it would seem that for the moment at least that would be his most appropriate role. That we need a new manger is blatanly obvious and I truly hope that it is Robins. One thing I would like to say is that I would feel extremely uncomfortable if Gunn were to be sacked by this board, they cannot get away with scapegoating him and letting him reap the fruits of their mistake, however I get the feeling that is exactly what they are planning to do. We cannot be placated by such obvious diversionary tactics and allow them to avoid taking responsibility for our current predicament. If he alone is sacked then nothing changes, I cannot see the situation improving whoever we get in to manage the team if the board remains in its current composition. We need a shake up in the board as well as a new management team, more heads than Gunn''s big bald one must roll!!!!!

[quote user="Scottlarock"][quote user="NXCanary"]I''m sorry but I don''t really understand the point you are trying to make here, it was malicious of Roeder to sack Terry Postle and showed what a truly vicious little sh*t he was but how does this relate to people slagging Gunn off? He made mistakes, perhaps the biggest one was to take on such a difficult task in the first place but almost all managers, particularly inexperienced ones take on clubs in dissaray, it is the nature of the game. I''m not trying to apologise for his failings but I feel that Gunn gave it his all and came up short. It is the board not him that need the criticism. He didn''t do a Roeder and doesn''t deserve some of the criticism levelled at him.  [/quote] It was malicious and a mistake to sack Terry Postle..........................however the board and BG could have fixed the situation and welcomed him back, they didn''t (missing a great pr trick) because they were arrogant and selfish and not he family,friendly and community souls they pretend to be. TP knew more about and was a larger part of the dressing room and colney than any of the loanees and ''managers'' in recent times. So when the club turned to Bryan ''mr ncfc'' Gunn to take us back to the ''Norwich of old'' then he should have been honest and said he couldn''t do it. He should also have told the board that they were clueless and treated their most loyal servants appalingly over the years. BG kept silent over all the garbage managerial appointments, stupid signings and exiling of Norwich City greats over the years - Roberts, Mackay, Huckerby. If Bryan Gunn was a Norwich City great and hero, he would have stood up to be counted a long time before his managerial disaster - if he had, he would still be a Norwich City Hero, now he is the instigator of the start of his and our Clubs downfall. The board trying to get back to the ''Good old Norwich'' when it was the board that set light to it with a tea candle and a stack of lovely linen tablecloths from the brasserie. [/quote] I agree with some of what you say but to suggest Gunny is the instigator of the club''s downfall is massively overstating the case. The problems run so much deeper than him, the writing has been on the wall for the past three seasons and all of us were too hopeful that someone would come to our rescue to face up to the reality of the situation. Gunn believed he could do the job becuase despite his inexperience he knows the club better than almost anyone and he had sufficient expertise in his back room staff, it would appear that this was not the case and the current senior management team need to face up to that, this is not just Gunn''s fault. I don''t know what the Terry Postle situation is, maybe he was approached and refused to return due to the way he was treated, maybe they didn''t want to sack the person they''d hired to replace him (after it''s not their fault that Postle was treated so poorly!) or maybe that person is working out their notice. However I don''t think it is fair to place the blame at Gunn''s door for that. Having said all of that Terry Postle deserves our eternal gratitude for the work he has done for FONCY, hopefully we will see him reinstated soon!

I''m sorry but I don''t really understand the point you are trying to make here, it was malicious of Roeder to sack Terry Postle and showed what a truly vicious little sh*t he was but how does this relate to people slagging Gunn off? He made mistakes, perhaps the biggest one was to take on such a difficult task in the first place but almost all managers, particularly inexperienced ones take on clubs in dissaray, it is the nature of the game. I''m not trying to apologise for his failings but I feel that Gunn gave it his all and came up short. It is the board not him that need the criticism. He didn''t do a Roeder and doesn''t deserve some of the criticism levelled at him.  

Don''t get me wrong I think he needs to be relieved of command so to speak, but he took the job because he saw the mess the club was in and he wanted to try and save it, we should respect the dedication he has shown both to the club and the wider community. He may have been blinded to the realities of the task by his love for City and his desire to be our saviour but ultimately it is the board who are culpable for their lack of ambition in appointing him not the man himself. He was also hampered by a lack of strength in depth and a string of injuries which robbed us of our most potent attacking threats. He may be held responsible for his role in bringing in the players under Roeder but ultimately this failure was as much caused by a lack of resources and the lack of a decent squad due to the current culture as it was his naivety/incompetence. He needs to step aside yes, but he also deserves to be treated with the dignity and gratitiude that his long service to the club deserves. We cannot treat him in the same way that the board and Roeder treated Huckerby. We talk about being an old fashioned community club with a proud history, if we are then we cannot treat any of our ex-players, particularly somone of Gunn''s stature with disdain and contempt. I am disgusted at the way he is now being spoken of by so called fans, some people it would seem have extremely short memories! I''m not trying to say he doesn''t deserve criticism. There have been failings of that there is no doubt, the biggest of which has got to be that he was unable to motivate the players sufficiently for our two crunch games; as humiliating and depressing as sunday was, the real damage was done on the previous monday against Reading and the week before that against the Scum with two patchy, lacklustre performances which sealed our fate before a ball was kicked at the Valley. The whole reason for employing him despite his lack of experience was that such a club legend could motivate and man manage the players whilst having the support of two more experienced tacticians in Crook and Butterworth. He was unable to do so. However treat him with respect, we owe him that much, the job itself was extremely tough even for an experienced manager let alone a complete novice, but he has proven himself lacking in ability at this level and must go.

I have been banging on to my friends for several weeks now that Robins is the man for the job, he has done pretty spectacularly considering the mess he inherited and if it hadn''t have been for a 17 point deduction, Rotherham who finished 14th in League two would have finished 4th. I think he could inject some real optimism into the club and unlike the other usual suspects such as Boothroyd or Pardew doesn''t have the stink of failure following him. He''s also been away from City for over ten years and as result has no connection to the current board, unlike Boothroyd; another name thrown around recently, who is known to be a close friend of Delia''s. As much as I and everyone else love Gunn we need a man with some experience, yet also someone who can bring in new ideas and optimism I think Robins fits the bill on both counts. Gunn just doesn''t have the necessary experience and some of his tactical decisions, such as starting Carney against Reading and playing Shackell at left back against Charlton strike me not so much as being the result of naivety but rather of incompetence

Nope, Get Mark Robbins in from Rotherham

If Norwich City FC were an object it would be a Wonderbra; fantastic support, very eye catching, but when you take that away the reality is rather disapointing!

The reason Leicester kept Fryatt and Howard etc was because they have a little thing called money, something we are somewhat lacking in at the moment. Can''t see us keeping anyone in the starting line up except Doherty, Russell and Semi, IF we go down that is!

I don''t want us to go down, if we don''t then we don''t and I will be absolutely ecstatic, but would it be the best thing in the long term? we are likely to have another similar season next time around with the board doing nothing to change their practices andleading the club even closer to ruin. It might be what we need so we can bring through the decent youth team players we are starting to produce and rebuild the club sustainably. I am totally conflicted over this as relegation in 2004/2005 is one of the most painful things I have ever experienced. However on that day we were outside of the relegation zone and we went to Fulham a side who had nothing to play for and ended up going down. Maybe sunday the opposite will happen and we''ll stay up on goal difference. All the club can do is plan for the worst and hope for the best, it does however appear that there needs to be a wholesale change in culture at a boardroom level for us to progrees. OTBC!!!!

Great post, I think you have to be this critical when you see that the club’s leadership for all it’s good intention has failed.I’d disagree with the point regarding the Jarrold''s stand, I think that needed to be done as the south stand was about to collapse and it was built with a view to the premiership sized gates we would attract. You have to take a few gambles in football and I don’t think that was in any way a bad or foolish one, as the article showed there have been more than enough of those to make the Jarrold''s stand seem inconsequential. I think that whilst the boards approach has led us to becoming one of the best supported clubs in the league it has ultimately led us into financial and footballing ruin. Our only real hope is that we have youth players of enough calibre to stop us dropping down any further than we already have/will. Their recent successes in the FA Youth Cup and League suggest the possibility of this; I know they haven’t actually won anything yet but then again they’re playing with the big boys like Arsenal, Man City, Everton and if not coming out on top then at least matching them which is extremely promising (Additionally in Ricky Martin they have a potential future City manager? Also would lead to some great new chants wouldn’t it?). If we stay up on Saturday then we will have not deserved it in any way, however if we go down which is alas now almost certain then I do have hope that there are youth players of sufficient calibre ready enough to build a successful squad again. However this needs to be backed up by a competent board, they say the worst thing a general can do in battle is reinforce failure but this is exactly what the board have been doing for the past ten years and is what the club will be doing, if the board in its present composition is allowed to continue. We need to look seriously for new investment and not just from a city fan (as nice as that would be), limit Delia’s influence and kick Doncaster out. As much as she has done for the club behind the scenes, and indeed there may have been an even swifter fall from grace without her presence, her and her board’s decisions have show a shocking naivety and lack of regard for other’s opinion, they have squandered the resources which could have led us if not into the premiership permanently then at least into stability at a top half of the championship level. Now we must pay the price for their profligacy and poor decision making. I’m not advocating a Chase Out! Scenario as we saw in the mid nineties, she’s done too much for the club, and did for a while pull us out of some sticky messes, however a quiet reshuffling is needed, get rid of those who support her on the board, leave her with some ceremonial title and let her have come onto the pitch occasionally when she’s pissed. Then a new board can get on with sorting the club out, if Hull, Stoke, Reading, Bristol City, Doncaster, Wigan, Bolton etc can lift themselves from obscurity then we can (again) as well. The current loan players scheme can only maintain the status quo for so long, as much as it may have been necessary to maintain championship status, we can never really develop and progress under that kind of program. We’ve been trying to put out a forest fire by p*ssing on it for too long now, we need to let it burn and then rebuild from there. As grateful as I am to people like Bertrand, Gow, Lee, Grounds, Gibbs, Kennedy etc who have come in on loan over the past two seasons and appear to have really been giving it their all, we need players who are going to invest themselves in the club and stick with us for the long term (although it would be so good to be able to keep Betrand and Shackell in particular, I just can’t see it happening). I would suggest the first thing we do is try and recruit Mark Robins as Manager; he has turned Rotherham from a side on the brink of relegation to the conference and in deep financial trouble into a promotion chasing league two side. And has done so with young players. He is an ex City player with excellent potential and some good experience, he could prove to be the club’s saviour if properly supported. Gunn as much as I love him just does not cut the mustard at the moment, he needs more experience before he can take the job up permanently and we simply cannot afford to gamble our club’s future again. With Robins, Crook and Butterworth, plus Gunn as head of recruitment, where I think he has done a decent job and a healthy amount of investment then the club could be rebuilt along more sustainable lines. I haven’t given up all hope for Sunday, all I’m saying is that if we go down maybe it’s what we need so we can cut out the dead wood and rebuild on more solid foundations. God I hate football!!!!! Stupid bloody game!!!!!! OTBC!