a bit about missiles on roofs

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

You all would have heard the announcement of the deployment of missiles on private and local properties in London, without a state of emergency declared, local representatives or residents consulted .First we have to let the idea sink in that this coalition Government is prepared to shoot down a possible terrorist target over and above the Olympic site/East London, then we looK at the means they are proposing. I find the prospect a ludicrous and dangerous option.To the HMV 5A system Starstreak missiles are laser guided designed to penetrate soft targets and explode a secondary charge, roughly with the power of a 40mm shell. The three darts would ripp about a foot size hole into the hull of an airliner, and explode the charge inside it, killing all, bar the pilot who sits behind a handgrenade proof door in the cockpit. The aircraft does not necessarrily fall out of the sky and might be able to land depending on damage. Should there be heavy fog, pollution and or a sizeable fire obscuring the line of the laser, it is useless. If there is a Lockerbie style attack, it is useless as it was a mid air explosion, meaning that there are instances this weapons system does not work.he greatest risk comes form flights that are already here, domestic flights and thos transitting, flights that take off from Luton Stanstead Gatwick and heathrow, because the time between take over and deliverance of whatever, is the leastpossible time, making aircraft scrambling almost impossible unless the pilot is sitting in an armed fighter jet with running engines.Just to get the right flavour of what is proposed here, this is an interview by a tennant with a clueless MOD official. macabre or what?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvXZ47G2Mi0&feature=player_embedded#

[walkern canary 0]

To be honest I can''t see what all the fuss is about ,the armed forces have been doing this sort of thing for years ,last year I was on Portland in Dorset and there was an exercise involving a dozen Royal Navy Helicopters and the SBS ,these aircraft were on open land with the rotors turning ,no fences but no one really took an notice apart from a few tourists So what do you do if an airliner is hijacked ?? do you shoot it down ?? or let it crashed into a packed sporting venue ,the logical answer is to shoot it down and hope it doesn''t do too much damage ,although in London this is unlikely ,although during the second world war I doubt there were many complaints from londoners about fully laden bombers being shot down over the capital ,and don''t forget these were not state of the art AAA we are talking about ,most of the shell and shrapnel fell all over london ,and are still being found today ,my dad as a boy used to collect them ,as well as a live incendary bomblet which may still be in his dads old house in Putney some people say it is the start of the militarism of London ,well London being the capital always has had a strong Military presence ,I can think of atleast three Army barracks in the capital The starstreak system itself is one of many deployed along with stingers missiles and the rapier system ,plus the Typhoons on QRA at RAF Northolt of course non of these systems would stop some nutter from Luton getting on a bus and detonating himself .

[walkern canary 0]

I have just "researched" Brian Whelan ,he seems to come across as a real armed forces hater ,he probably thinks the army units stationed on his roof will be out bayoneting babies 24/7

[hexem 0]

I do agree Walkern. The video blog is amongst others about activism .Typhoons have been overflying for a while. They are gone before you notice they were there.All of the comments on the blog refer to previous events being safeguarded.  I don''t see the problem.3 scruffy gents asked if they could use my house to secure the back wall of a property behind.Well I was won over by the public school accent. So they went over the wall at 02.00.I still have the card from the WPC. Gorgeous girl with a glock, "Maybe one day".hex

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

You shoot them down before they have the chance to get to the City, in the case of a flight from somewhere else. A hijack gets known fast.Looking at the short staffed airport controls, it is domestic and transit flights that need watching most, because they would have the best chance of success for any terror action, a shoot down over and above the stadium, all spots are surrounding the site, would mean that all else has failed.The whole idea of turning this event into the missileympics, with 30.000 police and special forces, is realy daft scare mongering, unless they know/plan  something we don''t. As you say there are so many ways of skinning a cat. Non of these super missiles would take out a remote control car or helicopter, what of a glider? the mind boggles, all these means would be able to deliver a home made burger right in front of the fast food merchants on the site, should they so wish, or to the top of that ex water tower, at least they would not disturb the people who live there when the local kebaba gets delivered via a model helicopter.I''m sure somebody will keep a blog of events in that building.Maybe all the questions raised about Obama, 911,the whole war on terror construct, the CIA''s involvement in Al Quaeda and the Taliban, all this makes it necessarry to scare us with another world shattering event, as guided by the arch neocon Brezcinski in his book the grand chess game, to further justify the annexations and geo political control over those who hold the vital last resources. I advise anyone to stay away from London.

[hexem 0]

Not disputing your comments nevermind.There is a rusting hulk filled with explosives. Not far from the stadium. It is sunk.No one has dared to touch it for 60 years.hex.

[walkern canary 0]

[quote user="nevermind"]Looking at the short staffed airport controls, it is domestic and transit flights that need watching most, because they would have the best chance of success for any terror action, a shoot down over and above the stadium, all spots are surrounding the site, would mean that all else has failed.

[/quote]

I wouldn''t worry too much about ATC  there will be an E-3 sentry patrolling keeping an eye on air movements

[walkern canary 0]

[quote user="nevermind"]I advise anyone to stay away from London.[/quote]

Don''t worry ,I will ,I can''t stand the place !!  it is over rated ,I much prefer the countryside :)

[walkern canary 0]

[quote user="hexem"]Not disputing your comments nevermind.There is a rusting hulk filled with explosives. Not far from the stadium. It is sunk.No one has dared to touch it for 60 years.hex.[/quote]

yep ,right slap bang where Boris wants to build his airport !!

[Herman 9,853]

How dare the government try to protect its,and other countries,citizens at the largest sporting event in the world[:|]

[Joanna Grey 0]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[walkern canary 0]

There is a missile on my roof ,I lobbed a small stone at a Jackdaw to stop from nesting on the chimney ,can someone send Brian Whelan round to have a word ??

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut. The small time available for reacting to a hijack, makes scrambling a fighter useless, he would have to be already flying up there to shoot the airliner down, jusdt outside the capital. The missiles are misplaced, they would be most effective on Londons periphery, not in the City''s east end. As it stands they are able to shoot a diverted aircraft only in the last approach, a  planned flawed response.If an international flight is taken over, almost impossible with blast proof pilot doors, without our knowledge and or major changes of course and altitude, we wopuld still get to know about it, if there was an acknowledged reply to a certain phrase asked by airtraffic control, they would know that the chap flying is replying the wrong answer. Any violent hijack from international flights would be know well indavance and is easy to react to, hence, the most danger comes from take offs nearby. Any attacks on other citys, although not hampering the Olympics and Londoners much, would probably still stop the event. I hope that nothing will happen at all, but the preparations and hardware present makes it look as if they know something we don''t.meanwhile they still talk of justice and values in the same sentence as Guantanamo.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9244120/US-prosecutor-at-Guantanamo-I-must-deliver-justice.html#disqus_thread

[walkern canary 0]

Nevermind ,there probably are SAM sites dotted around the edge of London too ,but because they are not in the capital no one would notice ,at the height of readiness a QRA fighter used to be able to scramble in two minutes ,but if there is an attack more than likely it will be on the ground .

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="walkern canary"]Nevermind ,there probably are SAM sites dotted around the edge of London too ,but because they are not in the capital no one would notice ,at the height of readiness a QRA fighter used to be able to scramble in two minutes ,but if there is an attack more than likely it will be on the ground .[/quote]I so hope you are right with regards to SAM''s, they will all have to push the highest state or readyness. I think anything planned could be foiled within airprots, baggage control and personal screening on departing domestic flights from these four airports are crucial and I hope that they will employ extra staff for that purpose alone.2 minutes to scramble a fighter was the standard, but is that fast enough, because an aircraft taken over almost instantly after leaving the airport, diverting only slightly from its course will easily be over inhabited greater London before that fighter appears.These are far to near to the site as to be usefull, imho, but hey what do I know of modern warfare.http://cryptome.org/2012-info/london-sam/london-sam.htm

[walkern canary 0]

Anyway more on missiles

For clarification. Rapier FSC (the current version in service) is a 24/7

all weather radar guided system with a range of around 16km. StarStreak

is CLOS beam riding system that use''s both visual and IR guidance with a

range of around 6km.  It can be used in poor visibility day and nightNeither of the systems use lasers of any sort.http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/starstreak_missile_system.html

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]

The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut.

[/quote]

I said worldwide, that includes flights taking off from this country. Quite simply stop all those that fit the criteria from entering any airports.

[hexem 0]

The old Lightning that tagged the Bears had an enormous streak of power,but it had to be replenished almost immediately to keep it aloft.I wonder if Typhoons will be stooging around as Biggles might have said. hex.

[walkern canary 0]

[quote user="hexem"]The old Lightning that tagged the Bears had an enormous streak of power,but it had to be replenished almost immediately to keep it aloft.I wonder if Typhoons will be stooging around as Biggles might have said. hex.[/quote]

Ah yes the English Electric Lightning ,my favourite jet fighter ,and the only aircraft capable of intercepting the U2 spy plane ,its rate of climb was incredible ,50,000 per minute ,the Typhoon is quoted at 62,000 per minute ,andits engines are more effiicient than those lovely old Rolls Royce Avons :)

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="walkern canary"]Anyway more on missiles

For clarification. Rapier FSC (the current version in service) is a 24/7

all weather radar guided system with a range of around 16km. StarStreak

is CLOS beam riding system that use''s both visual and IR guidance with a

range of around 6km.  It can be used in poor visibility day and nightNeither of the systems use lasers of any sort.http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/starstreak_missile_system.html[/quote]This from wikipedia on starstreak missiles, walkern, the last poinjt clearly m,entioning that it is not good in ''poor visibility'' when it comes to smoke.

Disadvantages

• The major disadvantage is the submunitions, having no proximity fuze, must collide with the target in order to harm it.
• The guidance laser may be detected after the missile is fired, if
  the target aircraft is equipped with a suitable passive laser warning
  system. In contrast, to detect a passively guided Infrared homing missile requires MAWS
  detectors with significant disadvantages: radar-based closure-detecting
  style MAWS radiate an easily-detectable signal which both reveals the
  aircraft and may be used as an auxiliary homing signal by AA missiles,
  and Infrared launch signature detector-based MAWS tend to be subject to a
  high false alarm rate which reduces attention paid them by the pilot.
• Battlefield obscurants such as smoke can degrade the ability of the
  missile operator to see the target, and could potentially interfere with
  the guidance laser.

[Herman 9,853]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]

The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut.

[/quote]

I said worldwide, that includes flights taking off from this country. Quite simply stop all those that fit the criteria from entering any airports.

[/quote]

Practically impossible and probably illegal.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut. [/quote]

I said worldwide, that includes flights taking off from this country. Quite simply stop all those that fit the criteria from entering any airports.

[/quote]

Practically impossible and probably illegal.

[/quote]especially during the Olympics, Hermann, who would recognise an Anders Breivig type who is in allegiance with the Knights templars, free masons and the EDL?

[hexem 0]

Sometimes you have to back off.What was Hungerford about?  & Dunblane,Moat.The chap in Chelsea after a long lunch. You can''t shoot everyone soa sensible amount of thought seems good.hex

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="hexem"]Sometimes you have to back off.What was Hungerford about?  & Dunblane,
Moat.The chap in Chelsea after a long lunch. You can''t shoot everyone so
a sensible amount of thought seems good.
hex
[/quote]

Perhaps you need reminding that none of those atrocities involved the hijacking of an aircraft which is what we are discussing, no?

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]

The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut.

[/quote]

I said worldwide, that includes flights taking off from this country. Quite simply stop all those that fit the criteria from entering any airports.

[/quote]

Practically impossible and probably illegal.

[/quote]

Not impossible at all, change the law.

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

Obviously the only way to lessen the threat is to issue a worldwide travel ban on those that fit the criteria.

[/quote]

The greatest chance for success is on a flight that takes off from Luton Gatwick Heathrow or Stanstead, not from Honolulu or Beirut.

[/quote]

I said worldwide, that includes flights taking off from this country. Quite simply stop all those that fit the criteria from entering any airports.

[/quote]

Practically impossible and probably illegal.

[/quote]

especially during the Olympics, Hermann, who would recognise an Anders Breivig type who is in allegiance with the Knights templars, free masons and the EDL?
[/quote]

LOL, so predictable playing the Brevik card.

[Herman 9,853]

Change the law?! The Olympics is in a couple of months.Parliament is not renowned for its speed of action.

[hexem 0]

OK Joanna, but some people do seem to be barking at the moon.hex

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="hexem"]OK Joanna, but some people do seem to be barking at the moon.hex[/quote]I''m surprised you did not volunteer your humble London abode, hexem, then this would not have happened at all.But no worries, these pesky complainants are being dealt with the only way we know best, we throw them out on to the streets.http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/london/im-being-evicted-says-east-london-resident-who-blew-whistle-on-missiles-7710810.html

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="nevermind"][quote user="hexem"]OK Joanna, but some people do seem to be barking at the moon.hex[/quote]I''m surprised you did not volunteer your humble London abode, hexem, then this would not have happened at all.But no worries, these pesky complainants are being dealt with the only way we know best, we throw them out on to the streets.http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/london/im-being-evicted-says-east-london-resident-who-blew-whistle-on-missiles-7710810.html[/quote]Why, you may asked, would his indignation and legal action against those who turned his apartment block into a military base, lead to such drastic action when the forces of Freedom ,Liberty, blood and gore, have the law on their side, have the rights to annex anything they like in peacetime?Is it because he dare to sue them?.

http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2012/05/eviction-for-bow-olympic-missile-whistle-blower-audio-video/