DEB (never forgotten)

[quote user="Old Shuck"] Was it Mike Walker who said you could do what you liked at Norwich, as long as it was what Delia wanted-or words to that effect? She wants a nice little cosy entourage bobbing about in her wake doesn''t she, SS Delia steaming ahead with all the little corks floating about around her. Steaming to the rocks, the one that holes and sinks her will be appointed Manager. [/quote] He said ''you were allowed an opinion at Norwich, as long as that opinion was the same as Delia''s''

Congratulations go to Gunn - clearly the best man for the job! A wealth of managerial experience, excellent record in the transfer market & knows the lower leagues in depth. Congratulations also go to our board. A hard decision to make at perhaps the most critical point in our modern history - but (as usual) they have come up trumps! Still, they may have a change of heart come the morning! Rumour has it that a managerial combo of Magilton & Grant are also in the running! However, it is thought that the board are simply unable to back their ambitious plans to build a promotion capable squad by providing them with their player transfer budget request of up to £25,000! When will some of our ''fans'' wake up and accept/realise what has happened to our club under Smith????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????  

Roy will be loving it every bit as much as the thousands of brainwashed sheep who worship queen Smith!

[quote user="Belaugh Yellow"]Its not over to the fat lady sings (Hopefully HArtson doesn''t sing)[/quote] I''m going to wake up tomorrow morning having had a nightmare, in which Smith staggers like a drunk into the centre circle at half time against ITFC (3-0 down), and slurs into song..... ''Itssss ovverr noww!!!''

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]despite all the talk on here and watching the abject displays both live(we weren''t that bad vs Barnsley but we were vs burnley!) and on TV, i still can''t see us in League 1, perhaps i''m too scarec to imagine it! wat do u lot think? [/quote] Given the state of the squad after loan deadline day, the impending departure of lonees & injuries etc - I thinks it is 50/50! IF we survive, it won''t be as comfortably as last year.

To me, the club lost it''s soul in the mid-90''s and (with the exception of 03/04 & the ''premiership experience'') has never got it back. You are right... THE CLUB IS CRAP!..

Thanks Fram - but are a little too kind to Mr Smudger! As a public figure Roy, are you going to ask the current board ''where''s the money gone?'' Come on Adam Aiken, Steve Gedge - or someone, anyone... at the EDP, stir things up like you did in the late 80''s/early & mid 90''s - dare you!

[quote user="FramCanary"] That slimy individual Rupert Sheldon was a prominant figure in Roy''s gang. I seem to recall that the new owners rewarded him for his part in the revolution by putting him on the club''s payroll!.   [/quote] How could we forget that twit!

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] DEB - I agree with much of what you say. Except that I don''t think the local press do the current board any favours either. They want to sell papers and there''s never any story in the status quo. The trouble with revisiting the past is that we do it with what we have learned since. The things that Gordon Bennett was so up-beat about in that article we now know didn''t work. The appointment of Walker was a mistake, it didn''t work and was done for the wrong reasons. Not selling certain players was a mistake and selling others was too. Big Bob made similar mistakes during his time and got away with them for a long time. This board have made their own mistakes and certainly haven''t got away with so many. But the past will tell us nothing really. Football in this country has changed to such an extent that it''s irrelevant. [/quote] Whether to define something as a mistake or not is judgement call. And solely in the eye of the beholder. If he (Robert Chase) ''got away'' with them were they really mistakes? Or put another way -  good, but unpopular, judgement? One suspects therefore that these really were mistakes (by the Wynn-Joneses). Or put another way - bad, but popular, judgement? Norwich City have always been a selling club. Selling well (sometimes dear) and buying well (often cheap). That''s our way of life. Some people succeed at it for the most part (South, Watling, Chase) and some people fail at it for the most part (The Wynn-Joneses). What are of over-riding importance in leadership are the overall results. Many good decisions (with a few ''mistakes'') produce success, whilst many bad decisions (with too many ''mistakes'') produce failure. OTBC   [/quote] Very well put!

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/content/yarmouthmercury/sport/story.aspx?brand=GYMOnline&category=sport&tBrand=GYMonline&tCategory=sport&itemid=NOED27%20Nov%202008%2012%3A14%3A23%3A687

[quote user="nutty nigel"] DEB - I agree with much of what you say. Except that I don''t think the local press do the current board any favours either. They want to sell papers and there''s never any story in the status quo. The trouble with revisiting the past is that we do it with what we have learned since. The things that Gordon Bennett was so up-beat about in that article we now know didn''t work. The appointment of Walker was a mistake, it didn''t work and was done for the wrong reasons. Not selling certain players was a mistake and selling others was too. Big Bob made similar mistakes during his time and got away with them for a long time. This board have made their own mistakes and certainly haven''t got away with so many. But the past will tell us nothing really. Football in this country has changed to such an extent that it''s irrelevant.   [/quote] Fair comment.

[quote user="The Butler"]Nutty your post brought back a lot of very good memories for me in a very traumatic time for the club. I knew all those talked about in the article well and worked closely with them all. Andrew Neville kept in touch after he went to Leicester. My source of information was from amongst those so believe it or not it''s your choice. Not everything printed is gospel as we all well know and some things could not be said at the time.[/quote] Spot on.

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"] People still do not believe that the whole Chase situation was manipulated by a bank and our present "owners". [/quote] I am struggling with this statement. I normally agree with your view on history and DEB has a better memory than most on here. But our present "owners" were only fans at the time unless that''s a code for something else.   [/quote] Not quite "just fans" Nutty. You are aware of my close involvement with the club during that time. I was told sometime before that meetings had taken place and............ Will give you chapter and verse when we meet as names are still relevant and ethics dictate. By the way the best guy we have had in charge for sometime was good old Gordon Bennet. From the academy to Chief exec. the man was NCFC and a football fanatic through and through.He went as did all the old stalwarts of the club. That''s one of our BIG problems, no one who remembers our history is left to pass it on. [/quote] I am not going to question your information Butler. But surely it was Martin Armstrong who made the approaches to Smith&Jones when they were invited to invest in the club in return for a place on the board. Martin Armstrong was very much Geoffrey Watlings man as I remember and it was widely assumed that he would become Chairman but I don''t believe he ever wanted to. I remember Gordon Bennett being highly rated by Chase and the fans. To this day I never hear a word said against him. Here''s an archived article from the old ECN site. : - In the early spring of 1996, Norwich City Football Club almost ceased to exist. The fact that, come the late autumn, the club is gently knocking on the door of the FA Premiership''s promised land is a remarkable tale -- a story of a stricken club lifted off its knees by a handful of individuals; a story in which one person is key, the club''s new chief executive, Gordon Bennet. In his first major interview virtually since he arrived as the club''s youth development officer in 1989, the man who quietly assumed day-to-day control of the ailing First Division club earlier this summer puts the record straight. Like all good doctors, Gordon Bennett mingles the good with the bad; the tears with the hope; the promise of a brighter future with the dark recollections of a troubled past. For as he arrived back at Carrow Road from his youth development role at the club''s Colney training HQ, Bennett discovered a broken club on the very brink of the abyss; a club whose very existence hung on the generosity of an 84-year-old Norwich businessman. "I was brought in in the last week of March and I realised within three days that the club was technically insolvent. To be honest I did not think that it would even fulfil its fixtures last season," admitted Bennett, as the administration of ex- chairman Robert Chase began to fall apart. Indeed, by the first week of May, Chase had gone. "Probably the only reason that the club is still in existence is the fact that Mr Watling bought those shares and put up seven-figure guarantees at the bank," added Bennett, as Geoffrey Watling''s crucial purchase of Chase''s shareholding kept the wolves from the door. A club that, in the words of one senior official "had the income of a Southend and the expenditure of Real Madrid" had been saved. Just. "From a position of relative crisis in the summer, we are now inching towards safety," said Bennett, introducing the next great player in the unfolding drama -- newly-appointed director Martin Armstrong. "Since then there have been a number of turning points, the first in June when Mr Watling said that he''d like Mr Armstrong to become chairman. Mr Armstrong, as chief executive of the Norwich and Peterborough Building Society, couldn''t do it because the board of his building society were not prepared to sanction it. "But in a board meeting that month, he made a very powerful speech in which he laid out what he would do if he were the chairman; how he thought the club could trade its way back, not to safety, but to prosperity. First, as Gary Megson was clearly not universally popular, something that was already showing in low season-ticket sales, that the board should consider replacing him with Mike Walker. Secondly, that we should do our absolute utmost to avoid selling any of our better players to improve our chances of Mike having a reasonably successful team and thirdly, we had to organise adequate long-term finance to be able to fund the previous two aspects. In the shorter term, however, it was Bennett who was charged with the task of slashing costs -- "down-scaling" to economists, making long-time friends and colleagues redundant as the club''s new axe man. "It seemed to me that last spring, with my experience at both Bristol Rovers and West Brom, that as a hatchet job was necessary, it was best done by someone who knew where there were still fresh twigs that could flourish as time went on," said Bennett, formerly club secretary at The Hawthorns and youth development officer and chief executive in 13 years at Rovers. "But it was extremely difficult -- these were people that had been very kind and made me feel very much at home since I first arrived. It''s not a job that I particularly enjoy -- I''d much prefer to be with the kids." As principal architect of the club''s youth system, Bennett was overseeing a Colney production line that had the likes of Chris Sutton, Darren Eadie, Andy Johnson and Keith O''Neill at its head. It is the defence of that achievement, those talents that drives Bennett on. And with the returning Walker matching the club''s slow financial restructuring with equal achievement on the field, so Bennett can launch a fierce defence of the club''s greatest assets. The following will be music to thousands of supporters'' ears. "Mike Walker has been absolutely magic -- he has already repaid the faith shown in him many times over," said Bennett. "And I can state quite categorically that there is absolutely no way any of our coveted younger players will leave the club for financial reasons. They will only leave if Mike Walker decides they can go for footballing reasons. "I would not be here now if I thought there was any doubt about that whatsoever," added Bennett, who turned down a 10-year youth development contract at another club to help steer City to safety. "I was youth officer at Bristol Rovers for six years, chief executive for seven and all the good, young players there were sold off to pay off debts. It was a soul-destroying experience and if I thought I''d wasted the last seven years at Norwich City Football Club just to see players flogged off I would have gone last summer. Indeed, one of the principal factors in me staying at Norwich City was the reasonable prospect of the younger players being kept at the football club and them forming the nucleus of a successful Premiership team." Equally, Bennett has inherited a successful middle-management team, suddenly freed to manage once the shackles of the old regime were torn away. "One of the main reasons that everything off the field is going so well is that in club secretary Andrew Neville, commercial manager Trevor Bond and company accountant Ray Housego you''ve got three very able and experienced backstage managers and without them it would have been incredibly difficult to have progressed with Mike as far as we have," said Bennett. Armstrong''s fellow directors earn every credit from their new chief executive. "Mr Munby''s initiative in taking the club out to its fans and repairing the bonds between the club and its supporters has been an enormous plus. Mr Lockwood, Mr Nicholls and Mr Paterson should be admired for the way they''ve stuck at their posts and helped steer the club out of trouble -- it would have been the easiest thing in the world last May for them to walk away. To their credit, they didn''t." Come the New Year, all the major players will begin to discuss installing a new business plan for the 1997-98 season and it is a sign of the club''s growing confidence that two plans will be on the table. "In January and February we will be producing two business plans for next season -- one to cope with the challenge of winning the Nationwide First Division championship and the other to cope with the challenge of a provincial football club thriving and surviving in the Premier League," said Bennett, offering a whole new policy and priority to the club''s future direction. "The football team has got to come first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth -- the new South Stand is a long way away. At least five years in my opinion," said Bennett, as the beloved bricks and mortar of the old regime are abandoned in favour of investments in flesh and blood. "My guiding principle is that I will do whatever is in the best interest of those 12,000 hard-core supporters out there and for as long as I''m here there will be constant downward pressure on all non-football costs," said Bennett, whose day-to-day powers even extend to the fact that he is the only person at the club able to authorise expenditure over £50. As for his own future, that could still rest with the make-up of a still-awaited boardroom shake-up. But for many people''s money, Bennett is a breath of fresh air, a no-nonsense football man fast returning Norwich City to whom it rightfully belongs -- the fans. "I don''t know how long my tenure of office might be. A new board might decide it wants to get rid of a cantankerous, dictatorial, bad-tempered old chap like me! But it proves that if you look hard enough there are better answers to financial difficulties than simply selling a player -- that should be the last option not the first."   [/quote] I did''nt believe half of what was published by ECN/EDP then, and still don''t. However, their captive audience of city fans & ''chase outers'' bought it all, hook - line - and sinker. They always were Bob''s biggest enemy, and this is perhaps why they remain supportive of the shambolic club we have today. I highlight & comment on important parts of the report. Clearly (if it can be taken as wholly accurate reporting), that Bennett & fellow board members were confident that their inheritance of a £6.9m net debt was manageable and that they would soon serve a financially prosperous club, despite their belief that the sale of high value players was deemed not necessary. This lead to their decision to reject £10m for two left wingers. Bennett would have left the club during the previous summer, had he been unhappy with results of his work with the youth development section. He had remained at the club due to the fact that we were so successful in continually bringing talent through to first team level, benefitting from their ability & subsequently cashing in when the player had high value. He believed (obviously wrongly, as has been proven over the past 12 years) that the sale of players would only be necessary as a last resort. Life within the world of football simply is not that perfect. A club such as ours will never be able to sustain itself without the sale of players - unless we find an extremely wealthy benefactor. Left rather suddenly, under a cloud(!) I seem to remember!.  

[quote user="BigFish"] The rehabitulation of the reputation of the reputation of Robert Chase is very interesting as is the decline in esteame for the "Chase outers" and Roy Blower. While some still hold out as a badge of honour that they were charged by the police in CR hindsight points out the untold harm that the protest did to the club. Chiefly the sense of entitlement, cynacism and negativity that pervades elements of the support even now. Chase cocked it up royally, there can be no doubt about that. Short term financial committments did for him in end rather than the protest but as is repeatedly pointed out the long term was sound. That and running out of luck on the pitch. The Chase model was to buy cheap and sell dear. After the protest this was never going to get past the fans. As a result we held on to Eadie, O''Neill & Johnson too long rather than cashing in. That £10m+ could have built a promotion winning side but was lost to injuries and underperformance. D&S still don''t have luck on the pitch but they have learnt not to get caught out by short term debt, hence the securitisation. The problems that the current majority shareholders have were excellently put into perspective by Peter Cullum in his EDP interview. But realism is not a key aspect in this debate. The "Chase outers" gave us the snake pit and through this largely denuded the Barclay of atmosphere. They left a bitter residue of resentment. They didn''t provide an answer but some of the causes of the current situation, with hindsight, can be left at their door. [/quote] Excellent post.

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote] I know exactly how you feel.  

Not true. He had satisfied the first call for reduction in overdraft facility & still retained a very significant value in the playing squad - as confirmed in the notes to the Accounts produced by the new board after his departure. You are simply regurgitating the myth that hs been spun by Smith & Jones and their loyal employees.

Blower (as leader/spokesman of the mob that protested & abused the club chairman) has to recognise that (in hindsight) his actions are partly responsible for the financial & on-field demise of our club. I am simply making the point that Blower & his flock protested principally because of their concern over (what they believed to be) a deteriorating financial situation at the club, coupled with the fact that after a fantastic spell in the top division we had suffered a relegation. Please refer to his comments included in my opener. The abuse that Bob endured was uncalled for - car vandalised, windows smashed, hate mail - and when his grandchildren were physically abused at school he made the decision to stand down. Yes, the Smith & Jones era has resulted in financial & on-field disaster, but Blower & those that supported him must be held partly to blame. I find it ironic that the very reasons for Blower commencing his campaign back in the 90''s (unfounded to an extent) are now magnified many times over, and yet we have heard nothing from the man. I would love to know his thoughts on the current situation & how things have panned out over the past decade or so.

Chase brought on his demise himself. He took the club to the financial brink by getting it to a point where it could not meet it''s financial obligations and so was effectively insolvent. He had to let others bail it out for him. And all this despite continously selling our best players for big money and ultimatley ending up with a team that could not hold it''s own in the division it was in. So have no sympathy for him at all. Sadly we now seem to be in exactly the same place!   Utter rubbish! Did you ''copy & paste'' this from the ''Smith & Jones book of myth & spin''?

http://business.edp24.co.uk/members/editorial/coverStory/story.aspx?brand=BIZOnline&category=Features&tBrand=BIZOnline&tCategory=Features&itemid=NOED26%20Nov%202008%2009%3A07%3A16%3A497 Hope this one works!

http://business.edp24.co.uk/members/editorial/coverStory/story.aspx An interesting read & small insight into the man.

[quote user="Ren"] So you saw all this coming did you and therefore wanted us to keep Chase?  Yes of course you did! Hindsite is a wonderful thing! Blaming Roy Blower for this mess is pathetic.  I think you will find its general football miss management and living beyond our means, something an awful lot of clubs are guilty of and with this credit cruch, I honestly think we will see the death of football as we know it.  The Bolton Chairman''s idea will happen in some form or another, I think. Oh, and no I dont like this current board and have not since the day they danced on Fulham''s pitch celebrating relegation with the majority of our happy clappy fans.  Where was I when they were doing this? I was walking accross the park behind there ground in utter discust at how we messed the end of that season up.  I have never liked or given them much time since! [/quote] Yes, I wanted Bob to stay. I have nothing but contempt for the small minded ''fans'' who brought about the demise of our club, whilst trying to oust the man who brought us the greatest period of on-field success that we have ever had. The majority of our current core of ''supporters'' have got (and have had) exactly what they deserve. Bob (on the board from 1982 to 1996) was voted into the ''Hall of fame'' by the club''s supporters & is rightly revered by many older fans who appreciate that wonderful period of football, the importance of which has wrongly been understated during the tenure of Smith''s board. I told Blower what I thought of him & his followers at the time, & the past 12 years or so have unfolded as I thought they would.  

[quote user="Ren"] Last night towards the end of  yet another shocking defeat at Carrow Road I moved accross to E Block so that I could join in the protest and shouts about the state of club, thanks to our manager and board.  As the final whistle blew, I let rip with a few boos and sweary type words about our manager.  However no one in E block joined in or did like wise, they just looked at me like I was a bit odd.  Most just clapped and went home. Please then all you people on here who talk the talk and call for Roy Blower, NCISA, Caps etc to protest and shout for you, at least make a start and do something yourself.  The thing that is hurting me the most about this sorry mess is that no one (who actually goes to games) seems to be that bothered. No wonder Delia thinks that all things are rosy and can not sense a bad atmosphere!!! Come on get up from behind your keyboards and at least let the Board know your not happy! [/quote] The vast majority of ''fans'' love what the club has become - how can you educate the mindless flock of Delia worshipers, when they are totally brainwashed? Blower & the ''new breed'' supporter have got exactly what they deserve.

[quote user="Ren"] Why oh why does everyone on here call for other people to do their work for them.  If you feel the need to protest get on with it!!!!!   [/quote] Are we to assume that you are happy with the financial & on-field disaster resided over by the clowns currently enjoying ownership of our club?. I suspect that you (& around 20,000 others) still believe the same old spin & rhetoric coming from the ''saviours'' & their loyal employees. It is amazing how they have been able to buy so much time on the back of a myth. I find it ironic (& very disappointing) that Blower seems happy to sit back and witness what his actions (back in the 90''s) have (all these years later) resulted in. He must be very remorseful, one would imagine! He & his flock''s key topic when running the ''Chase out'' campaign was ''Where''s the money gone?'' Having eventually got their way, they were ''rewarded'' when Smith & Jones bought themselves into an unprecedented position of total ownership & power. Having inherited a debt covered several times over by the market value of the playing squad (the contracted value of players not being capitalised within the club''s balance sheet in those days), they have increased net debt to £19m, whilst achieving very little on-field success. Thanks Roy. I would have so much more respect for you if you were to turn the clock back & begin your protest campaign a week on Sunday.

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="nutty nigel"] [quote user="1st Wizard"]Stay away and withdraw all your financial support CA.[/quote] Is that your advice to all fans then? Smith&Jones included?   [/quote] Until those two go, that would be the best tactic, imagine trying to claim a 24.000 gate with a near empty stadium?[:D] [/quote] This was the advice of a certain Roy Blower in the 90''s!

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="PhatCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"] 1st Wizard and PhatCanary. I didn''t say our position was a good one and neither is my head in the sand. You came on here and criticised other fans and I just asked what you were doing that set you apart from those fans. If the answer is nothing, as I suspect it is, then we can agree to stop trying to divide the fans and maybe talk about football again.   [/quote] Nutty, i have asked the fans who sit near me what their opinion is of the current situation at Carrow Road and what we can do to get the club moving forwards again, they ALL say the same, that The board need to go and 50% say that Roeder needs to get the chop, when i suggested that we should think of something to do to show our disgust at the way the club has been run into the ground the response is "Whats the point"  and "What can we do", as for trying to divide the fans well sorry but thats just cr*p, i''m trying to unite the fans to realise that they are being took for a ride and that Delia and the board should be held accountable for the current problems, yes they have done the club proud and when they first joined made a few good choices but that has been totally overshadowed by the huge mistakes made over tha last three years that has led us to the team being made up of loan players,the bank account being empty and fans at each others throats. [/quote] You won''t unite this fan though Phat because I don''t agree with much of what you say. I don''t hold Delia accountable for last nights defeat and I doubt many others do either. I think all fans would like to see the owners replaced with richer owners if that money is going to be spent on the team but I don''t see how we can make that happen. And kicking out at the owners we do have, who are investing what they can afford will, if anything, put others off. Like I say so often, we don''t have to thank them or be grateful but being ungrateful is the thin end of the wedge.     [/quote] Nutty fool!