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NewNestCarrow

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Posts posted by NewNestCarrow

  1. Posted

    10 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

    Mind you since we will inevitably lose perhaps they are better saving the gesture for a league game rather than encouraging another 1000 poor souls to experience a hiding at Anfield!

    Our last match at Anfield (a FAC tie, funnily enough) was a narrow 1-2 defeat.

    But that doesn’t suit the prevailing opinion, so we’ll ignore it!

     

    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    42 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

    I’m just a bit shocked at how much it’s gone up in recent years. I get that costs generally have increased but I feel a bit sorry for those youngsters who are often reliant on the coaches to get to away games.

    You would think that with the prize money from the 3rd round, the tv monies from the next round and the share of the Anfield gate receipts that the club could have at least subsidised it to a degree. You could lay on 10 free coaches for £25k and we get £100k just from the game being on tv. 

    Yes, the club could do this, but then some fans might moan that income wasn't being spent on players!

     

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  3. Posted

    4 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

    I was at Gigg Lane that night too Nutty. We were in their social club sitting with some Shakers fans and I teased a young lad saying if he wore my scarf that team would win. It wasn’t me who had the last laugh…

    Classic FA Cup upset although we were all over them at the end. Doherty really should have netted with that last gasp effort. I didn’t begrudge them the win and after what happened to them later it was the least they deserved.

    Can’t believe it was 16 years ago…

    And if you met a Bury fan today and told them how much you disliked your club's ownership & how your  "... football club has slipped so alarmingly in such a short space of time ... " they would probably - after recovering from gales of laughter - sit you down and give you an objective view of the football world, and Norwich City's place in it.

    • Like 1

  4. Posted

    1 hour ago, essex canary said:

    As opposed to £10 million 'C' Preference Shares paying 7% Interest, the Club has less than £10,000 'A' Preference Shares paying 5.25%.

    The owners are as shown in the second paragraph below. The biggest owner being the 'Norwich City Supporters Society Limited. Any knowledge? Looks as though the Blower family had some transferred maybe the Chase family too. 

    Will this still be ongoing by the year 3000?

    20240115_110838.jpg

     

    You know this is from 2019, right?

    You know that, in the period since 2019, there have been a number of significant changes in both share structure & share ownership at NCFC PLC, right?

    You know that there is a website where you can review information that is released by publicly-listed companies, right?

    Give  It  A  Rest.

     

    51xCTv3UXdL._AC_SL1101_.thumb.jpg.4f4e71ee646d80526561568e35ac5cd1.jpg

     

    • Like 1
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  7. Posted

    9 hours ago, Robert Barnes said:

    My wife a I are going to the Coventry game. We are coming from Canada.we are looking at getting tickets,

    just wondering about seating what is the view like from section S upper tier regency stand row M seats 23-24

    any body have any better suggestions. I do see a lot of seats available in the south stand section H ? Is that not for away supporters 

    If you buy South Stand Area K, Row Y 117 & 119 then you'll have a pretty good view, and if you ask the person in seat 118 nicely then you may get to sit with your better half!!

     

  8. Posted

    6 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

    No 8 in the back row looks to me like Roger Gibbons and is it not Neil Davids in the middle row 6th from the right with the blonde hair ?

    Gibbins is a good spot. Minus the tache & perm he looks very different!

    Davids is another thumbs up.  And I'm now certain that is Fleeting next to him.

     

    • Like 1

  10. Posted

    The trouble is that development from ages 13-20 is so hit-and-miss, and anyone making bold predictions is likely to come unstuck!

    Man Utd - who probably have the best Youth>First Team pathway in British football - famously invested tens of thousands of pounds in our Kalam Mooniaruck, and his ceiling ended up being the Isthmian League [note also that KM got an Eng U20 cap, thus demonstrating that selection for representative sides is often based on Who You Play for rather than How You Play]

    Chris Sutton was released by NCFC at, I believe, age 14, but his Dad pushed his physical development and, a couple of years later, NCFC wanted him back.

    Max Aarons was just Mr Reliable (a la Lewis Blois) before his break-through, while our splashy purchases of Daniel Adshead & Aidan Fitzpatrick (both already playing first-team football) came to naught.

    Toffolo is proving that he had the potential, but how long do you keep a player waiting for his chance?  (look at the Lambert side, filled with players from Big Clubs' who had to take a step down in order to develop)

    Personally, I find it disappointing that the 9-man subs' bench doesn't see more of our prospects on it, but I do understand that the gap between youth and men's football is now much greater than it was.

    And finally, while a manager is feeling the heat (and many fans are making unrealistic demands for success) the blooding of youngsters will hardly be a priority.

    In short, who knows?

    • Like 5

  11. Posted

    A new challenge for the Oldies.

    A few on this photo haven’t been identified, so can anyone help fill any gaps?

    Back: Grapes / Sullivan / Boyer / Steele / Machin / Stringer / ? / ? / Goble? / Davies? / Evans / ? / Suggett

    Third: Ryan / Peters / Forbes / Jones / BondK / Hansbury / Keelan / ? / ? / Fleeting? / Busby / Powell / ? / Medwin?

    Second: Sainty / Brown / Westwood / Burrell? / Fish G / Hanley / South / Watling / ? / ? / ? / BondJ / Prodger?

    Front :  ? / Downs? / Lythgoe? / ? / Mendham / ? / Symonds? / ?

    Davids, Dunthorne & Proudlove should be on here, while I’m certain that MacDougall & McGuire aren’t.

    Suggestions welcomed!

    2024-01-13 17-19.jpeg

  12. Posted · Edited by NewNestCarrow

    On 10/01/2024 at 09:29, ricardo said:

    I saw all of them play except for Tommy Johnstone who had just moved on to Orient when I first went. 

    Johnny Gavin was my first Norwich City hero. Still the Clubs all time leading scorer.

    If you look to the right you can see the fans in the Enclosure, which was a standing area in front of the main stand.

    That photo was not taken at Carrow Rd (the old Main Stand did not have pillars and there was no roofed structure at the River End until 1979). Likely taken at either Newport or Shrewsbury

    Edit: And the lineup is from 1953/54 (Ron Hansell didn't make his first-team debut until Nov 1953)

    Never trust sellers of cheap repro images on ebay!

    • Thanks 1

  13. Posted

    9 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

    Can we assume by Jonathan Tomkinson's failure to break into the Bradford City team (6 appearances since signing at the end of the summer transfer window), that he's just not going to be up to it either?

    Not even a top League 2 side, they are 13th! 

    That would be an entirely foolish assumption to make. 

  15. Posted

    36 minutes ago, kingsway said:

    100%!

     

    With the theory of some on here the old Barclay terrace would have had seats bolted onto it, the old South Stand and corner infill to the old Barclay would still be here rotting away and with reduced capacities and the old roofless River End terrace would still be here no doubt nearly ready to collapse into the rising water levels of the Wensum! Only the City stand minus the snakepit and maybe the Wensum infill to the river end would be the only new stands, the club being forced into after the 1984 fire! -If all this actually was reality then Norwich would be on a similar level to clubs like Peterborough, Bristol Rovers, etc and the 12,000 (at tops) remaining regulars would be up in arms!

    As time goes by you have to replenish facilities, like your property wouldn't be how it was in the mid 1980's or even the mid 1990's cause you would have had money spent on it fighting the inevitable wear and tear. Football stadiums are the same. Plus you cannot stand still in this World or you get left behind!

     

    Also in modern times it wouldn't viable to have old "cowsheds" that would only be used 27 times a season for games only. Football grounds need to be multi use to enable clubs to be more viable.

     

    A new City stand in the decade while being a drain on finances, would set the club up for the next 50 years and the increase in capacity would enable more fans to go regularly, encouraging more younger fans to attend and enable the club to be more competitive. There are ways like outside investment, debenture schemes, Bond schemes that can help to make the project more financially comfortable at the time of construction.

     

    The River end stand has been outdated for at least the last 15 years so I'd say that stand probably only has another 30 years lifespan before that needs replacing?

    Why does the River End (built 1979 and only used 70 days p.a.) need "replacing" while my house (built one hundred years earlier and used 320+ days p.a) only require regular maintenance?

    Exactly how much luxury should we be giving fans for their 30 quid?  Heated floors? heated seats? wider seats? padded seats? more legroom? lifts to all levels? cupholders on every seat? tv screens at every seat?

     

     

  16. Posted

    9 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

    This is similar to what I’ve heard from someone in the academy set up. 

    The recent article on Matos in The Athletic is interesting. 

    Matos was going on trial to PL clubs in March. Does that strike you as someone who was committed to NCFC? 

    Matos was a boyhood Chelsea fan. Again, that was always likely to sway his decision-making.

    He was not exactly tearing it up for us last season [just 7 starts for the U23s, zero gls & two assists], and beyond U15 level he had been ignored by the England set-up.

    He's made a couple of appearances for a Chelsea side decimated by injury & struggling in mid-table, so he's not exactly Frank Lampard!

  17. Posted

    On 29/12/2023 at 08:38, Yobocop said:

    Then how on earth did LTFC demolish the bobbers stand and rebuild it within 3 months? 

    genuine question 

    Luton's project cost less than £10m while Norwich's could be £80m

    It's like wondering why putting in a loft extension is more expensive & difficult than replacing your garden shed!

  18. Posted

    7 hours ago, shefcanary said:

    Thanks for at least playing the game NNC. So using your criticism, let's recalculate. So reduce the future ticket income by £1m p.a. to reflect an even more Conservative increase in ticket income, and cut naming orders by half (why, the new brand is guaranteed TV exposure as well as being prominent on the inner ring road -talk about underselling). Anyway, that £1.5m reduction in annual income reduces total capital and finance cover by c.£45m to £170m. Well that's still a capital build budget of £50 to 60m, although I have no doubt that Attanasio would look to get more cost effective financing to move that amount up. 

    Do you still feel it unfeasible? Be positive!

    The civil interaction is appreciated! but I still don't think the numbers add up (in particular the lack of demand for Corporate & Hospitality seats)

    I think of it this way; twice a year, when family visit, I could do with a bigger dining room & an extra bedroom. But have I considered building a new 2-storey extension? No, partly because I can't afford it (and it would outprice my house for the street) but also because, in reality, I don't need it.

    There is no doubt that Attanasio has access to cheap money, but I doubt that spending £80m on infrastructure is one of his priorities.

  19. Posted · Edited by NewNestCarrow

    2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

    At what point does the Tottenham Hotspur stadium pay back the investors? 10 years? 
     

    It cost 1.2 billion. 
     

    It is a venue and was part of a regeneration project. It is a wide ranging facility and venue. 

    It wasn’t financed on the back of how many hot dogs they would sell at a concert. 
     

    Global investors are out there. You need to put a case to them , which I know the club will do/ have done. When the ground gets regenerated it will be as a venue / facility and it will use investment money. Large quantities of it. Even if it was Anastasio fronting it it will be funded . 
     

    With the greatest respect this is different league stuff that none of us truly understand as we don’t fish in those pools. 
     

    If I had come on here 3 years ago and said a US pension fund was going to invest in the Binners I would have got the how many hotdogs argument. One of the next phases at Portaloo will be a ground regeneration. 

    The new Spurs stadium is being paid for by local property development (a bit like Arsenal & the Emirates)

    THFC have 1,000+ residential units planned near the ground, plus a 180-room hotel & 49-apartment tower block at the old Away end.

    And, unlike NCFC, Spurs regularly make operating profits (£97m & £112m in last two seasons) & are very unlikely to get relegated.

    Not sure the finances of the two clubs can be meaningfully compared!

    • Thanks 1

  20. Posted

    9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

    There really is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Some points for consideration. 

    Any building project is not expected to pay for itself straight away, but over its useful economic life. You would normally, like any mortgage, expect to repay over a period of 20 to 30 years. The cost of build will be financed; if from an external finance company, expect the total cost including interest to be double to treble the original build cost. 

    So, you first would look to see how much you can currently spare towards the project (Delia and Michael have said sod all, so ignore) plus how much you'd ideally expect to generate in new additional income every year. This gives you a capital budget to work with. Sure, there will be few iterations of this calculation as it will be a bit chicken and egg, whilst you work out a comfortable and realistic balance.

    So, some ball park figures. Replacing the City Stand with a 10,000 seater gives an extra 7,000 seats. That should generate c£4m income in tickets p.a. The secondary spend plus corporate hospitality income (the current ground is relatively short of such facilities) should generate c.£2m p.a. Throw in naming rights of £1m p.a. and you have new income of £7m p.a. over 30 years, a total of £210m. That should provide a capital build budget of £70 to 100m, depending on how Attanasio decides to finance this (note my accent on Attanasio, we will be using his experience to get the cheapest finance). And hey, we haven't touched the existing playing budget.

    Can it be done more cheaply than elsewhere; I think it can given the land around Carrow Road and relatively good access. The access problems at Anfield, Selhurst Park and Craven Cottage that drive up their capital costs can be avoided at Carrow Road.

     

    i fear your figures are overly optimistic.

    All NCFC ticket income last season was £10m, and so I really don't see how increasing capacity by 26% (7,000 seats) will increase ticket income by 40% (£4m). Or will you be hiking ticket prices?

    There is no shortage of Corp hospitality at CR but, judging by the availability of most home games this season, there is certainly a shortage of customers willing to pay for it!

    Naming rights of £1m p.a? i would be amazed if Jarrold or Regency paid anywhere near that. 

  21. Posted

    15 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

    How could we know the amount of the loan, terms of the loan or the timespan of the loan? 

    You didn't say whether you included other match day income in your original calculation.

    Nobody has mentioned the possibility of increased venue income from pop concerts and the like.

    In the meantime, the cost of maintaining an ageing Main Stand will inevitably increase by the season.

    It would seem that this debate (and there is no clear-cut answer imo) is gradually becoming one of Delia speak versus Annatasio speak.  I wonder how much the latter has borrowed in the course of making his millions.

    There is risk in all business. There is risk in all business borrowing for expansion. The level of risk is determined by the mind-set of the ownership and the need to borrow within the means. 

     

    1. So I'm wrong because we don't know the figures, yet your fag-packet calculations are correct? Well, that's a convincing rebuttal!

    It is likely that many of the new seats would be occupied by concessions rather than high-fliers. The demand for executive seats is reflected in the current (wide) availability.

    2. I very much doubt that concerts at NCFC are limited due to stadium size. Licensing, pitch-wear, hotel-availability & decent transport links are all likely to be much bigger factors.

    As for luxury, the middle-aged hamper & champers set will flock to open fields to watch Tom Jones & the like (not to mention Glasto & Latitude) so not sure that strengthens the business case.

    3. When Attanasio sells NCFC do you think he will get a better price if a) the club are in the PL with a 27k stadium or b) if the club are in the Champs with a 35k stadium? 

    And 4. How much is Attanasio likely to spend on the upcoming $850m refurb of the Brewers stadium in Milwaukee? Is it a) most b) half c) less than 15%. [If you don't know the answer then you don't appreciate how most successful businessmen operate]

  22. Posted

    1 minute ago, RobJames said:

    What rot.

    Are Sheff Weds or Derby any higher in this measures you quote, than Brentford or Bournemouth ? And the lunacy continues as apparently basic balance sheet figures should be ignored. Short term monetary concerns will be what determines our playing budget next season and who we sign and who we sell - which in consequence will have a huge impact on our season. And guess what ? That is what influences the number of folk who turn up. Not the size of any stand.

    It is always very easy spending someone else's money.

    Fans spend two hours per fortnight at their home football ground, and yet some demand ever-increasing levels of comfort & facilities.

    Football clubs in UK do not have the spare cash to upgrade stands every generation. Yet here we are, with regular complaints about the River End & Main Stand, and expectation that the Magic Dollar Tree will provide.

  24. Posted

    6 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

    Add match day expenditure, and the outcome would be that this extra income should cover the interest on and part repayment of any loan (mortgage style.) 

    I don't think so.

    Borrowing £80m over 25 yrs needs annual repayments of £5.3m. 

    Prioritising facilities over squad investment; didn't work out so well for R T Chase, did it?

     

  25. Posted

    The Anfield Rd redevelopment at Liverpool is costing £80-£90m and there is no evidence to show that adding a second tier to our Main Stand would not be similar.

    Thanks to the hordes of football tourists & Executive clients - all paying upwards of £150 for a ticket + chicken-dinner at Anfield - LFC are generating an additional £10m per season in matchday income. 

    If NCFC added 7,000 new seats matchday income for the season would rise by less than £3m. 

    The sums do not add up, which is why McNally/Moxey/Webber/Ward have not taken the plunge.

    If the main driver for ground expansion is getting kids in, then I can't see it happening.

    But if the main driver is economic, then the club can do that by increasing ticket prices.

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