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Beefy is a legend

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Posts posted by Beefy is a legend

  1. Posted

    7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

    In the past I've been so hoping for a long term manager to emerge, the likes of a John Bond for instance - or Ferguson/Wenger - as it would match the values of the club so well. I thought Lambert could be that man, then Hughton, then Neil - all of whom didn't stay for varying reasons, but with Farke I thought we had finally got that man. Someone who we could ride the roller coaster with for many years and when he was given a four year contract, I really thought that it was going to happen. 

    I understand the pressure of the PL and the need to try and stay there, but this has been a bit more of an emotional shock.  DF has been brilliant for our club - and imo could have been again - and today may have been the start of that, which was partly why I was so pleased for him and the team today.  It seemed like a psychological corner had been turned. But now?  I really don't know, but it seems a decision based on lost nerve rather than anything logical.

    A step back, imo....the world does turn, but it doesn't feel like it at the moment!! It seems like it started turning today for the club when the team won and then it stopped the moment the sacking was announced. I guess it will start again, but as far as the football is concerned, I don't think it will ever be the same again - Farke was the soul of the team, not Webber or DS/MJW and I doubt if that can easily be replaced. We may get a good manager in, we may even stay up, but a little bit of magic left the club today.

    Whoever it is with, I hope beyond hope that DF gets to return to Carrow Road so he can get the ovation he deserves.

    • Like 2

  2. Posted

    2 hours ago, FatCanary said:

    ...ards.

     

    These players needed you.

    Thank God the hardy few who went to Brentford don't think like the self important forum and social media bubbles.

    I'm off to celebrate our win.

    I never turned on our lads or our manager.

    And I never will. That isn't what supporting is about.

    Shame on you. 

    These wins feel all the sweeter when you've backed the players, manager and ownership.

    Enjoy your evening buddy.

  3. Posted

    1 hour ago, BigGrantsTash said:

    It’s just their stock response when people don’t agree with them. See also ‘Webber is the only one who can make decisions, not anyone on here’ as if they think people on here believe they genuinely make decisions on behalf of the club. 
     

    It’s a strange one though. They’ve signed up to a Norwich City discussion forum then claim all discussion is pointless because no one sees them in training. Begs the question as to why they’re on here.

    This forum is home to discussions on many different topics. There are some in which the standard supporter has more information upon which to base an opinion, some where there is very little information. See the Cantwell speculation for example.

    I'm on here to read views and contribute where I think I have something marginally interesting to say. And to point out where I think some views may be erroneous and offer an alternative view. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  5. Posted

    1 hour ago, king canary said:

    Without wanting to speak for Jim, I don't think that is what he's saying.

    I also hate the 'Farke knows more about it than you' argument on here as it fundamentally serves solely to shut down debate and (when taken to its logical conclusion) entirely removes the point of a discussion forum about football. Obviously Farke knows more than us about football but on that basis we can't debate any decisions ever made by anyone at the football club.

    I don't think that's true though.

    But it does perhaps introduce a degree of humility into those who understand that fundamentally, the guy who is at Colney every day, who has the experience and coaching badges, might be better placed to make the key decisions than me, you, or anyone else on this forum.

    The fact that some posters don't understand this explains the content of some of the posts in this forum. 

    • Thanks 1

  6. Posted

    11 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

    That's not what is being said. 

    As I explained earlier in this thread, all but the most blinkered can see that the writing is on the wall. Farke has done tremendously well for the club, but he is completely out of his depth at Premier League level. John Gorman has a better win ratio than Farke and there are only about 10 managers with worse records than him.

    The longer it takes the board to relieve him of his duties the more tarnished his legacy becomes. I for one do not want to see him hounded out of the club because the board allow a toxic atmosphere develop due to their inaction, with Farke being the sole recipient of the fan's ire. Unfortunately Smith and Jones are nothing if not predictable and will dither and procrastinate, until Farke's achievements are not what he is remembered for.

    It seems our owners live for turning fans against club legends. See Gunn, Worthington, Adams and Neil. Farke will be the next one added to that list and frankly he deserves better.

     

     

    I'm just going to say this.

    If you choose to boo Daniel Farke, or sing for his sacking, that's on you. I won't be doing it. 

    If you choose to do it, the board aren't making you do it. 

    It all feels a little too similar to telling your kid 'don't make me hit you by misbehaving'. 

  7. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

    Your suggestion though is that fans should just leave it to Webber to make the decision and not voice their opinions though?

    Voice your opinion by all means. No problem.

    But like it or not, Webber will make the decisions, and is better informed to make those decisions than anyone on this forum. 

  8. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

    I hate this argument (see also “the manager is the only one who sees them in training” or “I think Farke knows more than the fans”).

    we are (just about) a top flight football club who are known to be good to work for. It’s a premier league job. At worst next season it’s an upper end championship job. There will be loads of managers interested.

    And the notion that fans seeing their team lose and get humiliated every week should just be quiet and now to the great god Webber who frankly is hugely culpable for that situation is also unrealistic. If anything, our fans should have been more vocal at the weekend in demanding change because the powers that be  at the club always take indifference and continued full attendance as an endorsement of what they are doing and only ever act when forced to having pushed the (very patient) fans over the edge.

    just for once it would be nice if they were proactive snd took action before it’s too late and before it gets unpleasant.

    But that's not what I said Jim. I actually said everyone can have their opinion and express it how they like.

    All I said is that some opinions have more weight than others. 

  9. Posted

    1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

    If the club’s aim is to survive in the EPL, keeping Farke isn’t sound either. If your washing machine is making a funny noise, not getting the clothes clean and leaking water over the floor you don’t stick with it because it might suddenly come good, even if it worked fine in the past. You get shot of it and get another one because you need your laundry to be done!

    After a 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in Farke's second season, you could have said something similar.

     

    • Like 1

  11. Posted

    6 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

    It's an opinion Beefy, I'm not outside Webber's house with a banner. If he has concluded that DF is the best option then good for him but it's a difficult one to argue with every performance that passes

    No probs, everyone can have their opinion.

    But if one isn't in possession of many key facts, such as the availability of alternative managers, it just means that the opinion isn't of much value. 

  12. Posted

    9 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

    I hate this 'who is out there, who can do a better job' argument. I hadn't heard of Alex Neil, Daniel Farke, I knew nothing of Lambert's coaching career. It's not my job to know the extensive web of European coaches, it's Webber's and I'm sure he has quite a few names ready. Who can do a better job? This could be the worst ever Prem team ever, I don't mean that as a sulky fan comment, I mean literally points, goal difference etc worse than Derby.

    'Who would want to come here?' is another argument. The facilities are now top class, it will interest a lot more Managers than it did 4 years a go thats for sure. 

    I'm not sure anyone could do worse, it's been an absolute disaster.

    That's all fine and well. But if it's Webber's job to decide whether or not someone better is out there, why don't we just leave it to him to make the decisions rather than demanding sackings? He may have concluded that DF is the best option, all things considered and with the longer term in mind.

    • Like 1

  13. Posted

    Just to try to bring this thread back around to TNC, I'll have my say.

    Firstly I don't think that there is any doubt that they are both good guys, talented in their media work, engaging and passionate about NCFC. Their channel has some of the more polished fan produced content that you will see in the country.

    I thought the livestream work that they did was great during lockdowns and they've done good charitable work. Some of their best work has been their interviews with players and staff, demonstrating the ability to connect closely with the club. 

    It is, however, notable at least to me that their interactions with the club itself have tailed off notably in the last 18 months. I suspect the pandemic to have had a significant influence on that, but we are still not seeing those player interviews etc that were a staple of the past. Who knows if there are reasons beyond the pandemic for that. But I do think it has diminished the channel somewhat because I don't know how much mileage there is in hearing the same people express similar opinions week after week.

    I'm not particularly impressed with Jack's content over the recent several weeks. They've swung incredibly quickly from the reflected glory of the club's success with their HMS pi55 the league caps and celebratory streams to demanding the sacking of the manager. I've seen nothing in Jack's content in terms of what that sacking will actually achieve in the mid to longer term or how the abandonment of our hard-built model and principles will benefit the club going forward. I find his recent content knee-jerk and short-sighted.

    But I think that's a mistake being made by many right now. This isn't a Webber or Farke issue, they are both talented, skilled and hard working people. We will be very hard pressed to get better. Much more likely is we will get worse. But our position isn't about that. It's a consequence of not having the finance to compete at this level. You can appoint whoever you like to the manager's chair but that fundamental fact will remain. And that is scary for all of us. Because it goes way beyond booting out a manager and expecting things to suddenly change. 

     

     

    • Like 6

  14. Posted

    2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

    Who says Cantwell has fallen out with Farke?  For all we know the issues around Cantwell may be totally explainable and the way he is being managed correct. Likewise, who says there is a problem with Gilmour?  He is a squad member like all the others. So he's done well for scotland - so have Adam Idah and Omobamidele for Ireland and they are not picked much either. I don't suppose Cantwell or Gilmour are happy not being included, but we do have good players apart from them. Divisiveness is not helpful.

    I get a bit fed up with people trying to see divides when there may not be there and when what we need is togetherness.  It's just part of people trying to get what they want - all part of the "waah, we don't like it" mentality.  Every Norwich fan is concerned and hurting to see the club struggle but people like Jack Reeve who have a public profile ought to be a bit more careful about casting aspersions where there may not be any.

    Get behind the manager. Be helpful to what he needs to do for the next match, not unhelpful. It is a Norwich match, we want them to win....we should want Daniel to win too. And if he wins on Saturday, then that is the start of a resurgence and improvement for this season. Stop the rumour mongering and trying to find division where there might not be - and if there are any conflicts - just remember Oliveira, the way Emi responded to being left out by buckling down and doing well, all down to Farke's firm handling of the situation. Farke is an excellent manager, we will only do worse if he goes.

    Agree with every single word.

  15. Posted

    1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

    You missed the latest one which was Farke's first and second seasons. There were boos and calls for Farke out at the end of 2017/18 and for the first few weeks of 2018/19. In fact there was more unrest about him then than there is now.

    Can he turn this around? Let's just say we don't know. I certainly don't know but I'd love it if he could.

    Webber is the man who will make the decision and he wasn't involved in the other examples you gave. 

    Also worth pointing out that Worthington's dismissal set the club on a nosedive that ended in L1. Change isn't always a good thing.

    The issue with the OP however, is the premise. I have seen very little evidence in the ground of fans really turning on Farke. Apart from some boos at the end of the game I felt the crowd was right behind the team. I didn't hear a single anti-Farke word said during the whole game. 

    • Like 1

  16. Posted

    13 minutes ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

    they probably don't understand the elation in finishing 21st compared to the agony in being 20th

     

    a complete nonsense of a concept, to be "top 26"

    It makes more sense when the club stated the objective was to:

    "Either be in the Premier League or in contention for promotion to the Premier League."

    That's what Top 26 has always meant. 

  17. Posted

    2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

    Great Post.

    Yep I second this and I'll try to add my own take though I concur with quite a bit of what Indy said.

    Personally I place little blame at Farke's feet. After 10 games I simply don't see the individual quality in the players that we've brought in that is required to stay in this league. Player for player, we still have the worst squad in the division. 

    Sargent, Rashica and PLM have been disappointing as has Williams. Tzolis clearly is one for the future as is Angus. Gilmour looks difficult to accommodate in a squad already small in stature. Dimi and Gibson have both looked suspect defensively. 

    Ozan has been just about adequate I'd say, and Normann the only real success. Both of those being loan players of course.

    As for Webber, clearly there is a degree of blame because the recruitment looks disastrous. Albeit I agree with Webber that it is still relatively early in the season, but clearly 2pts from 10 games and none of those players looking up to it is getting on toward a decent sample size.

    However, ultimately Webber is operating within a tight PL budget especially on wages. £40k is about our limit so even if you argue we should have signed 4 or 5 quality additions instead of 9 or 10, there is a limit in terms of the quality of the player you can attract on our wage budget and as a favourite for relegation.

    I just think we are seeing the limits of self-funding. Which is basically that the likes of Webber have to get every recruitment decision perfect, or just be lucky enough that young, relatively cheap signings storm the Premier League. In the £8m-ish price range bracket, you can't sign established PL quality. We have had to risk our budget on potential because we can't do more. What I'm saying here is that it isn't impossible to stay in the PL as a self-funded club, but it's incredibly difficult and you need to be pretty lucky as well as adept in your transfers.

    So in conclusion, unless you want to take your pitchforks to the Stowmarket Two's house, which I personally don't, then this is probably the way it's going to be for us. If it's any consolation, there are other clubs in the same boat, some who spend much more than us. WBA, Fulham, Watford and us are all doing the yo-yo dance. And even if Brentford survive this year, you can bet they will be back in the relegation scrap again the following year, and the one after that. Welcome to the modern PL era!

     

     

  20. Posted · Edited by Beefy is a legend

    Loads of very considered and thought out analysis here. I agree with a lot of what has been said.

    One thing, however, that I don't think has been given enough attention, is just how physical this league is, and how Farke has almost felt forced into putting every single 'big' athlete into the side. At the expense of using our technical players. 

    I thought Liverpool looked like giants. Then I saw Watford, and Brighton. They were all huge sides. Dan Burn is 6 inches taller than Pierre Lees-Melou! You just don't see sides like that in the Championship.

    If you don't compete on set pieces, you have no chance whatsoever. And since we have two vertically challenged full backs, there's almost no choice but to put McLean, PLM and Sargent into the side just to enable us to compete.

    That is why this league is so brutal. Teams don't just out skill you. They out pace you, they out muscle you, they out jump you. They out think you.

    And when you try to compensate for one of those weapons being used against you, they use one of the others. Because, for the most part, they have better players than you. 

     

    • Like 2

  22. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

    Gunn didn’t go until after the following game.. a win if I remember. Having said that I do believe the board will stick with Farke because they are achieving what they think is suitable for the club, either PL or parachute money coming in to pay the bills so we don’t have to sell players cheaply.  Anyone holding their breath for some kind of action best have very deep lungs.

    I agree.

    Lest we forget, Webber said DF has the job as long as he wants it. And he tends not to say things flippantly.

  24. Posted

    6 hours ago, komakino said:

    Apart the the fact they haven't spent that figure as our net spend is circa £20-25M - though I think Webber has largely wasted it - there may be some method in what your state. 

    After the virtual zero spend of two seasons ago that got a lot of neutrals back ups - and commentators alike. Hence why we've had bad press so far this season. Had we had pulled the same stunt again with no results, then I could see a rule where clubs that are seen to be coming up for the money would be penalised in some capacity. Reduced or removed Parachute payments for example, so the club has to be seen to be making an effort.

    When you have owners that morally don't like the EPL, but are happy to take its money every two or three years to keep them and the ultimately doomed self funding model in situ - it's an unholy alliance and an unsustainable one at that. 

    We need owners that want and enjoy NCFC to be in the EPL as an established figure. We don't have that. Instead with have pathetic owners - not pathetic as people  - but pathetic in the position they hold in relation to the club and what is needed in 2021, though that hasn't fundamentally changed since the 90's. 

    We spend the majority of PL tv cash on the wage bill. 

    So how can we be reasonably seen not to be making an effort? 

  25. Posted · Edited by Beefy is a legend

    Not saying it's the font of knowledge but TransferMarket has our squad valued at about £180m and that seems more accurate to me. 

    Cantwell, Aarons and Omobamidele are going to worth in the region of £50m combined.

    All the new signings worth around £50-£60m conservatively speaking.

    Various squad players including Krul, Hanley, McLean, Rupp, Pukki, Sorensen, Idah and numerous players out on loan making up the rest.

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