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is Fleming to old and past it?

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Tonight we played crewe and were unlucky not to win the game but it did seem that fleming was particularly poor. I say this because on many occasions we were sliced apart by crewe and really had their finishing been better we could have found ourselves several nil down by half time. this league is already starting to show his defensive frailties so i put it to you should he be put out to pasture or not (feel free to put me back in my place if you feel other wise)

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I thought Fleming was OK tonight, don''t think the Doc or Charlton are any better.  Another Centre Back with Class would be great though!  Shackell was good again tonight.  Drury solid but Louis-Jean a disappointment.  Thats my opinion on the defence anyway.

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[quote]He should be given a free , but i fully expect him to play every game.[/quote]

Oh no mistake about that, he WILL play every game. Never mind the fact that he''s costing us goals, costing us points.

It''s a case of 2 down, 44 to go for our Flem.

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Flemming i feel was our best player in the 1st half, and possibly a strong contender for man of the match.

We need him, keep him!

Flem for england
ok, maybe thats too far, but he should definatly be in the squad, him and shackell look far better the doherty.

or maybe its time to bring in colin?

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Absolute rubbish, all we get is Flem this & Flem that & yet again we have to have a fall guy,  Flem made a cracking tackle before their goal & then Louis Jean out of position attempted a half hearted tackle & the ball is played into the space where Louis Jean should have been. Flem won everrything last night & is good at this level, just get off his back & let him do his job. 

I despair that Norwich fans what ever the line up have to pick 1 player out of the team who they can pick on & it goes Docherty, Flem, who''s next Hughes, Deano, I say shut up moaning start supporting our players & team & then we might get somewhere.

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Had a good look at Flem in the second half, and saw him win just one tackle. Too slow and not smart enough to cope with a good team like Crewe were last night. We MUST get Charlton alongside Shackell in the centre. Until we do, our defence will be shambolic. Our midfield was also shambolic (until Safri came on), but that''s another story...

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[quote]Tonight we played crewe and were unlucky not to win the game but it did seem that fleming was particularly poor. I say this because on many occasions we were sliced apart by crewe and really had their...[/quote]

In answer to the headline question:    Yes.

He was having a good game until the ''lapse'' (pathetic challenge that exposed the defence and injured himself) that led to their goal and then seemed to go to pieces, becoming a liability for the team.  2 games, 2 goals conceeded, poor defending by Flem a key factor in both goals.  Any other player wouldbe dropped for less than that.

Charlie is better, and doc may be so given a real chance (and being taught when to tackle around the edge of thd box); Jurgen is an option;  

ALL of them are good enough but confidence appears low and the coaching staff seem powerless to make things better.

OTBC

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Now first of all, don''t get me wrong, if Worthy brought in a younger centre back for the future tomorrow to replace Fleming then I would have no complaints, but for goodness sake I really think we should cut the bloke a little slack!

Yes, he is getting older but I thought he had quite a decent game last night.  Quite a few times he made successful last ditch tackles which may have prevented goals.  I remember one in particular, centrally, just inside the box and the bloke next to me said "if that had been Doc, it would have been a penalty".

His distribution last night was fine.  I only remember one stray pass and again in particular, first half, I remember a lovely weighted pass which Ashton caught on his chest.

He voiced his opinion on the pitch - whenever Crewe had a goal kick I noticed him shouting across at Shackell.

I agree that Fleming is not the future and I also agree that Shackell is our best defender on current form, but Flem is the present and I am just not so sure he really is as bad as everyone is saying.

When Crewe scored, he was the only defender within a yard of a Crewe player.  He had to move up to make a crunching tackle as our midfield failed to make a single tackle in the whole of the first half (well, I don''t remember one!).  This meant MLJ had to move inside which is why we got caught out.

Even Shackell got caught out for pace last night when he got his yellow card.

If the reason Flem is a bad defender is because he is getting older then what is Doc''s excuse?  IMO it should be DOC we give the transfer to, whilst he is still worth something.

I maybe wrong but I just swear blind that if we won a game 4-3 and Flem scored all 4, there would be calls for his head as he conceded 3!

I''ll probably get no one who will agree with me but....hey ho!

 

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flem is old and past it... he took chances by going all in and isolating shackell

his ability on the ball is non-existant... he doesn''t lead as he says one thing at one moment then does the opposite

i am really worried that he has continued in the same way and worthy hasn''t seen it

we need to build a partnership now that can be dominant after xmas for the promotion run-in and then again for next year... having a partnership with shackell and flem is not lookin forward

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[quote]Absolute rubbish, all we get is Flem this & Flem that & yet again we have to have a fall guy, Flem made a cracking tackle before their goal & then Louis Jean out of position attempted a h...[/quote]

If the performances are poor I will comment on it - Flem started well last night but the tackle in the build up to their goal was half hearted - it should always have been his ball, wasn''t due to a late and weak challenge and got himself injured as a result.

As for the others , doc has consistently out played flem when inthe same partnership; hughes was appalling last night with apparently no brain in his head other than to run to the ball only to see it move back past him;  Jarrett looked OK when he could be bovvered, and Louis-Jean defended abysmally.  Hux looks a bit lost this season,Marney has played well in patches and both Leon and Ashton look average strikers because of the very very poor service they are getting - so difficult to make goals from a pigs ear; having said that both should have scored from the straight forward chances they did get  .  Drury, Green and Shacks played OK while Safri was the stand out player on show for the limited time he was on the pitch.

 I dont think this is an unreasonable assessment of the match last night; not sensationalist, not prejudiced.

To improve the team as a whole

  • must defend far better, either by getting back to basics; first to the ball, goal side, playing as a unit, keeping a shape and reading a danger or changing personnel - the first opion has not happened over 14 months
  • dominate midfield;  again keep a shape and play as a unit; be available to take a pass
  • pass;  not to players with two defenders against them; and not to pass the resposibility to another because you cant see anything else on.  Aim for a free colleague ;  no hoofing hopefully forward because there is nothing on; pass to feet rather than a 10 yard radius of wher teh player may be.
  • learn during the game; after 15 mins it was clear that their defence outpaced ours yet we continued to hit long balls for the slower Hux, ashton and leon to chase - why?  leon also insisted on pushing the ball past to chase; after failing to get past his man 4 times he needs another tactic once you realise he has you for speed.
  • Offside - how many times were our strikers looking along the line and caught out?  Its ok for my daughter to not know the rules but surely leon & deano should have got the hang of it by now?
  • Give deano the ball to his chest or lower - his feet are quick and he can sheild the ball well; there is only so much he (or leon) can do with the only service being 6 foot 4 off the ground.
  • compete for the second ball; our central midfield were second best 90% of the time again.
  • Support the strikers - with some much aerial football to deano and leon the central guys have to be closer to pick up the pieces.
  • midfield to break beyond the forwards - it scares defenders more than anything; only safri did that last night  

This is basic football, not rocket science; but all of it has been absent so far this season. With 80% of teams due to come to FCR only to defend we have to keep the ball, keep a clean sheet and break them down; we do not seem to have the ability to any of these at the moment.

OTBC  

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[quote]Absolute rubbish, all we get is Flem this & Flem that & yet again we have to have a fall guy, Flem made a cracking tackle before their goal & then Louis Jean out of position attempted a h...[/quote]

To be honest if people want to have a moan about players then they can at and here is the best place to do it.  Is anyone turning up to games and booing Flem?  No.  Everyone on this forum supports the team whatever players are in it.

Personally I think in the case of the Doc and Flem people are watching them for every little mistake and some of the criticism has been far too harsh.  This is a forum though and everyone is entitled an opinion on all things Norwich City.

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Fleming had a good first half and a solid second half last night.  His tackle just before they scored was superb, he is prepared to get hurt for the cause.

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