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Canary02 IV

2 thoughts on yesterday. 1) Don't crucify Neil, 2) "Talent" has had its chance.

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1) I was so disappointed to hear so many people after the match trotting out the "He should never have been given the job" and "Only Hamilton manager" lines. We have no idea after three games what exactly Alex Neil is going to be like as a manager. His ceiling could be mid-table Championship or it could be Premiership top ten. What I do know is that when 4 of our 5 senior central midfielders were missing, picking Whittaker, who has played there for Rangers and Scotland, was not a ridiculous leap of faith by a hopelessly naive buffoon. It was an educated guess by a manager who is still learning about his players. Information such as which players adapt better when the chips are down is yet to be learned. Had the injury problems emerged in 6-7 games time he probably would have gone with Wes or Benno. But I don''t blame him for picking Whittaker as on paper it made some kind of sense. The guys had two games before yesterday, and is working exclusively with inherited under performers. Give him time.

2) Neil is now the third manager in a row where we have all said "Well he''s got the players to do the job", yet time and time again we''ve seen disappointment and malaise. We have to hold our hands up at some point and admit that these "good players" are busted flushes. They flatter to deceive. When it comes to the crunch they don''t make that run, or follow that man as closely as they should. All the talent in the world won''t matter if you don''t have the ball in the first place. Neil must make some tough decisions, preferably now, but more likely at the end of the season. There are loads of lower league players who at one time or another were at Premier League clubs or touted as the next big thing and you see them a couple of years later and think "Why is he only on the bench for Crewe? He scored those two great goals in the cup and almost moved to Spurs...". The reason is almost always that the player, talented though he was, didn''t want it enough. Didn''t work hard enough, didn''t put himself on the line when it mattered. He was thinking about getting himself to the six yard box to tap in the glory goal and hoping someone else would make the unglamorous run into the channel to help set it up. We have a few too many of those types of players and it''s biting us in the arse. We need to establish the fighters and bring in players who can fight and play football alongside them. I don''t want to hear about potential or a list of the things that a player "can do" any more. What has he done lately? What is he incapable of doing or unwilling to do? Weed out the weak of spirit and the fightless and remove those who can only do one thing on a football pitch. A pure goal poacher who doesn''t work for his colleagues or a ball-winner that can''t pass are not going to take us to the next level. Give me honest men, good footballers and people who want to play for this great club and develop with it.

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Yesterday was disappointing.

For all the cries of wrong team tactics etc etc there was only one player different from before. AN made a call that simply didnt work.

The cries of McGrandles or Wes starting instead have little merit. A front 6 of Jerome, hooper, lafferty, redmond, bj & wessi is far too attacking and mcgrandles too lightweight and inexperienced. The choice was right - however the out come was simply far worse than anyone could have predicted.

Neil is right when says that whittaker is not his biggest concern. Whittaker was a stop gap. He will only appear there when there is no other option.

His biggest concerns are

the persistent problem of his cb partnership,

- the reckless marauding of olsson and martin, which saw cuellar and lafferty deflected from their main roles to cover the acres left behind their uncommitted to tracking back full backs

- the ill discipline of defensive midfielder BJ prime and far from alone example being joining the attack after whit and, and with the aforementioned full back also forward, went ahead of the ball & ignorantly left whittaker the man with the ball 25 yards from their goal with only 2 cb behind him

- arrogance - we won so few tackles and fewer 50/50s as if it doesnt matter

- lack of commitment - repeatedly the full back were the last busting a gut to get back into position when caught forward. Only Ruddy, Redmond & Jerome came out of yest with any credit in this.

- the lack of mental strength - great when ahead - folder under pressure

- the lack of team working or ethic - see full backs and bj for first goal as just one example, Martins lack of knowing what to do when ruddy asked for support, and Wessis rage at Ruddy ignoring his guidance at the penalty.

Not much on his plate to solve - all of which was inherited. All of which were highlight by Brentford who had an excellent day and exploited our problems and lack of match craft.

He post match interview recognises these - how quickly he can address them and how many do require what increasingly seems to require a whole scale change to rid the squad of the cripply lack of championship quality mental apptitude is another matter altogether

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All good comments. I said something similar in another thread. Different managers......same sort of results. Really need to look at the players who are hungry and I''m afraid, a clear out is needed. Maybe we should try some of the younger players? Let''s look at the lower leagues, players who really want it!

All we ask for as fans, is for the players to give 100%. When you''re not getting that, the tracking back, the "I''ll bust a gut to help my colleagues" you know something is wrong.

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Agreed Crafty. Great from Zipper as well. Nothing to add except a bump so others read[Y]

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Couldn''t agree more. First goal was comical. Whittaker, rather predictably in an advanced position when having to move the ball quickly with technique, lost the ball and with BJ also advanced there was an absolute acre for Brentford to break into until they reached the centre halves. Even so, they had time to exchange a couple of slow passes before playing in the right winger to score, and where was his marker, Olsson?

That was about the time that we stopped trying to pass out way through yesterday and started hitting the channels. Which vastly reduced Redmond''s effectiveness unfortunately as he was the one player who was in form and carried a threat for us.

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Zipper you are far too sensible and level headed for this forum.

6 points from 3 games and most on this forum think the world just caved in because the guy(who will still be getting to know his new squad) makes a tactical error, albeit a big one.

Hopefully he has something about him and will react to the saddos booing in the right way and make them eat the words.

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More or less agree with the OP and Zipper ,, but

I think that certain players are the main concern ,, either through lack of commitment or skill .

Imo yesterday ruddy hooper Redmond Olson Jonson showed commitment ,, even if some lacked the necessary quality .

Martin and Whittaker in particular had absolute "stinkers"

The manager is either , out of his depth already ,, or failing to inspire the available players , let''s hope what is left of the window can get someone in who might make a difference positively .

Gutted of Wymondham

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I dont disagree that it comes down to a core of the team barclay seats.

There is a hard core of underperformers that I have called out elsewhere. I am not sure if we can improve without changing them.

Personally my plus column from yest only covers ruddy, redmond and jerome. And I would add Johnson and Olsson in the unacceptable category.

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The last 2 wins were as much to do with the old set up as the new. This was his first without the experienced Phelan, who with Adams had produced some fantastic high scoring victories recently both of whom have now gone. I would like to have seen Phelan remain.

What does this tell us? Imo opinion it tells me that you can''t judge a manager on one or two games. Adams lost his job not because he beat some one 5-0 or whatever but because over time it wasn''t working for him as it wasn''t for Hughton.

Imo we did not need to leave ourselves so exposed in midfield yesterday although I want to watch attacking football. I agree that these players are increasingly only looking good on paper.

Give Neil time before throwing our collective toys out of the pram.

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Yesterday showed us what an important player alex tettey is for us. He may well have prevented both goals as they were created in his ''patrol zone''.

When he''s back we''ll be harder to beat.

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I''m looking forwards to a good clear out and turn around in players this summer whatever league we''re in, I''d love it if we could make and win the play offs but I don''t fancy us.

The core of this team have let us down time and time again, mostly by failing to do the simple stuff and failing to compete with their opposite number.

The downside is we will probably lose Redmond in the summer, but we''re a one man team atm, I''d rather lose Redmond and assemble a decent team than have one outstanding player in a team of mentally fragile, technically limited disinterested strangers.

Keeping the team together in the summer made sense at the time, we all thought we were sh!t because of Hughton, now that''s it''s turned out we''re just a bit ordinary, even at this level and utterly hopeless when under any kind of literal or mental pressure.

I wish we could call upon Louis Thompson, loan a promising midfielder from a top team and find a hard working, up and coming LM who can hold and run with the ball this January. But I can only see us selling Olsson and signing some old player on his way down from the Prem, hope I''m wrong though!

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It Does not matter how you go over it not only are the team not good enough neither is the manager, anyone who saw the team sheet knew it would not work Hools should have started so much for the play with no fear.

Phelan is no mug and knew when Alex was appointed we were going nowhere

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I think Phelan is a red herring. We lose the first game since he left and then suddenly to some he was a coaching messiah because he somehow masterminded two big back to back home wins. No mention of the coaching prowess that helped us to those pitiful losses at Reading and Preston etc.

Revisionist history to suit an agenda.

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The OP is a perfect example of why is best to wait a few hours to post after a bad result / performance, it results in a far more balanced and sensible contribution.

Alex Neil may or may not turn out to be a good appointment but criticising him too much after one defeat is laughable. the last 120 minutes of football at CR may end up doing more good than harm as he must have a much, much clearer idea of his squad''s strengths and weaknesses than he did after the win at Bournemouth.

There are a few players who need disregarding and replacing this week with fresh faces but there is still all to play for. It is going to take a huge improvement from yesterday but promotion can still be achieved.

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Excellent stuff from the OP. I am by no means a happy clapper but am encouraged by the majority of intelligent and measured comments on this thread

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