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River End Canary

Russell Martin

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He was poor really really poor on Saturday I thought he was even worse than Whitaker.

What was really shocking was the lack of leadership. At least half the team were having an absolute mare how did he respond. He said nothing, mute non existent response, zilch, not bothered.

Time to get Bassong on the pitch and back as our Captain. He can''t be any worse than Russell

We also need a leader in the middle of the field someone to keep them joined up with the defensive unit. Never before have We been so bereft of a decent captain

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Actually, for once, can''t disagree with much of that. Especially the last sentence.

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I can''t get my head round the stupidity of playing poor Whitts in midfield.......surely the better option would have been to stick Martin there as he prefers pkaying central and Whitts at rightback!

Still can''t get my head round that.....feel a bit for Whittaker being singled out so much.

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I don''t think you can criticise his ability at right back much. He''s one of the best in the league and none of the goals or big chances came as a result of him messing up.

I agree with the captain thing though. He speaks well enough, but I don''t see him as that inspiring on the pitch. Someone like Turner would make a better captain on the pitch or even Johnson.

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Not sure about Johnson. Surely he should get a bit of criticism for not organising the midfield defensively. Whittaker, although he has played there before, needed help,back-up and instruction, but I feel he has been left to carry the can. Johnson having played there should have acted the captain on saturday.

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I think Martin was the least of our worries, there were much worse performances than his. Also had a good game last week where, if he wasn''t on the pitch, we wouldn''t have won or scored 2 of the goals. He''s the best RB we have and there are more pressing concerns than him.

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Whittaker has always been considered a defender who can play midfield, but certainly looked like a fish out of water for the first 20, his lack of pace against a younger midfield also showed. I thought he did a bit better after a shaky start, but by that point Brentford had already seized the initiative.

Martin certainly didn''t have his best game, either - and if ever there was a game where you needed a ''leader'' to get others to up their game, it was Saturday.

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Sadly I agree with a lot of Canarys post. Martin was the worst performer by some way. And I agree we need leadership.

I agree with getting Seb back in the starting line up, but not as captain - he can lead without an armband.

The problem is who should be captain - looks like only Ruddy for me...

BJs not discplined enough to make his actions a leading by example type; a midfielder who has had a worse pass ratio than our keeper, who rarely wins a tackle, cant stay in position is a poor captain. If he starts for us again it should only be on the left flank where is best performances have come from and he does us less damage. Turner? a shadow of his former self and will be lucky to start on sat. We just dont have the options.

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Martin is long overdue a stint on the bench. In the team every week regardless of performances and he simply isn''t that good. Found wanting time and time again in the Prem and no more than average this season.

Needed to bite the bullet a year or two ago and say bye to him (or Whittaker) and buy a better RB.

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Maybe Russell does a lot of his talking to the players before and after the game behind closed doors or in the changing room.

The fact he says nothing on the pitch might be extreme disappointment that his players have not done anything he told them to on the pitch and probably realises not much he says will change anything on the pitch.

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I agree that Bassong should not be captain. It was too much for him to handle previously and he probably performs better without and can have a voice of leadership still.

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Sorry but who do we then play at RB? Whittaker is shocking defensively (his average game at RB normally is almost as bad as what we saw from Martin in the last game) and not as good going forward either. He thinks he is, he tries to go forward but it''s like he doesn''t know what to do, unlike martin, who, like I said previously, created 2 of the 3 goals last week with his desire and hard work to get forward.

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Sorry but who do we then play at RB? Whittaker is shocking defensively (his average game at RB normally is almost as bad as what we saw from Martin in the last game) and not as good going forward either. He thinks he is, he tries to go forward but it''s like he doesn''t know what to do, unlike martin, who, like I said previously, created 2 of the 3 goals last week with his desire and hard work to get forward.

People have suggested Elliot Bennet I suppose.

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Wow it''s funny from all our comments we might as well get rid of all our back 4 and play our youth squad 😉.

Does this sum up just how bad our squad has become under Hughton, Adams & Neil? I mean Garrido, Martin, Turner all plyed well under Lambert!

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Was it Lambert or Hughton who signed Turner?.....i can''t remember but feels like he''s been here for years!

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Wasn''t Garrido here on loan under Lambert? For some reason I thought Turner was too.

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Garrido and Seb playing tomorrow night for u21, nothing to lose by throwing them both in on Saturday if they come through this, good incentive for them as selection must be really up in the air for the Bluenose game.

Garrido and Ollsen as previously discussed, worth a try Alex!

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It has become sadly apparent that there is not one obvious candidate for the captaincy.

Ruddy? - definitely not.

Howson? Johnson? - not if their radio interviews are anything to go by.

For effort, enthusiasm and articulation, Tettey is probably foremost. Perhaps O''Neil due to his previous experiences of promotion?

It seems to me if these loafers are going to up their game for the rest of the season, then Alex Neill needs to dust down his boots and find himself a spot in the midfield, with ''captain'' clearly tattooed on his furrowed brow.........

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]Sorry but who do we then play at RB? Whittaker is shocking defensively (his average game at RB normally is almost as bad as what we saw from Martin in the last game) and not as good going forward either. He thinks he is, he tries to go forward but it''s like he doesn''t know what to do, unlike martin, who, like I said previously, created 2 of the 3 goals last week with his desire and hard work to get forward. People have suggested Elliot Bennet I suppose.[/quote]

Whittaker isn''t shocking defensively. That''s a total exaggeration. He''s not the best defender you''ll ever see but neither is Martin.

 

There''s really not a lot between them. The way people make out there''s a huge gulf in their levels is, frankly, ridiculous. It''s Russell Martin and Steven Whittaker. Not Pablo Zabaleta and Jon Otsemobor.

 

Martin did have a good game against Cardiff but that isn''t his usual showing. It was him at more or less his best. Against Brentford he was atrocious, worst performance from an RB this season and by a distance. But that isn''t his true level either. The reality is that he''s somewhere in the middle of that. Which is also where you''ll find Whittaker.

 

But, like I''ve said a few times, people have got it in for Whittaker and he''s got almost no chance of winning them over now.

 

You can be sure if Martin had delivered that performance in midfield against Brentford he wouldn''t have got the reaction Whittaker did. Whereas Whittaker would be absolutely crucified for playing like that at right back.

 

There''ll be no changing it now though. People have made their minds up and Whittaker will never win them over. Perhaps if and when he leaves it''ll make it a little easier for people to spot Martin''s shortcomings - many of which he''s been getting away with for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

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Martin is a loyal servant to the club and a thoroughly good bloke - this is why he was club captain and not team captain. He should be made club captain, and the team captaincy given to someone who has excellent leadership skills. This way we don''t have to persist in playing Martin irrespective of his form. There is a complete authority vacuum on the pitch at the moment, but of the players we have available to us I''d say Turner''s probably the best candidate. Not an outstanding candidate by any means, but certainly has a presence coupled with plenty of top-flight experience. With the right man alongside him (Bassong for my money) he could be the lynchpin of a promotion-pushing side.

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My opinion of him isn''t based on the last game where he played in midfield. For me Whittaker belongs in a lower championship side, Martin belongs in our side. Martin is normally very solid, a 6/7 every week. Whittiker is normally a 4/5. There is quite a gulf imo, although you''re right, perhaps ''shocking'' is too strong, more just simply poor defensively and in attack

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Whitakers distribution at right back is often better than Martins - the problem comes when Redmond plays

At times he is a free spirit and when he loses the ball our right back can be exposed. Adam Dury was the last full back we have had who coped with this situation (often defended on his own when Huckerby went walk about)

Martin is reasonably quick and can cover but Whitaker is often exposed to pace - he must be our slowest player

Bottom line is, if Redmond plays - Martin is the best option to have behind him

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RM is not helped much by Redmond when Brentford were attacking down that side.Although Whittaker got the blame by most for losing the ball just outside the Brentford pentalty area which lead to their first goal, why did Johnson continued his run beyond Whittaker right up to the Brentford 18 yard line?  As we all know possession got turned over & the back door was well & truly open....yet again!!  Why should Johnson, being a regular central midfielder, not take some of the blame for what happened during that move?How many counter attack goals have we conceded this season??  And after 27 games we are still getting caught!!  Having all of our midfielders pushed right up against a team that plays counter attack very well is madness & pays no respect to Brentford.  If anyone saw how well they played against us at their place in September will know what I mean, a good win for us in the end but 3-0 does not reflect how they played for 60 odd minutes we were lucky they did not take their chances.We probably needed our best 11 in the pitch to beat this lot but we didn''t......OTBC

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Agree with GJP - very little between RM & SW and its the one in form at the time that keeps the slot - between the two of them they have 7 assists compared to MOs 2 - so I think both offer the right back role something - although neither are great.

Martins performance was shockingly poor, but only marginally worse that Whit, Olsson, Turner, Cuellar, & BJ who were all equally miserably culpable

And spot on south of the border - that first goal (7 men ahead of the ball in the 20th min is madness, with BJ, Olsson & Martin over committed) ecapsulates what is wrong with teh team. Whit losing possession is only the middle phase of why that goals is so soft and why it wrong to heap the blame on whit

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