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TIL 1010

I Am Confused.

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Following the defeats at Reading and Preston we had according to most on here the best and strongest squad in the division led by a crap manager who could not get them to perform but now we have apparently a brilliant manager with the same squad that now needs dismantling, shipping out and new players brought in. [*-)][8-)]

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no, apparently we have a terrible manager (after one game) who''s a disgrace as well as the team who are also a disgrace, I think that''s where we''re up to on this forum today and for the rest of the week.

Tune in for next week when we''ll be worried about Redmond going because he played well in the Birmingham 0-4 win, Alex Neil being hailed as a tactical genius who is to become the ''next lambert'' and that perhaps we actually don''t need a left midfielder. See you then.

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I think the Club and more so the supporters have been confused for some time, Tilly.

But Alex Neil has come out and laid it on the line. He has rolled the dice and in doing so let it be known it is him or the players.

This core of players has been here throughout the tenures of three and arguably four very different managers now plus a handful of coaches. Some might think they have got off light?

Personally, I backed Adams but being an insider might have made it hard for him to control certain players, Alex Neil has come in from the outside.

It is too early to say how good or bad he will be technically. Some posters have made good arguments already that he has shown nothing on that score, but, the way he interjected at Bournemouth and subsequently saw off Mike Phelan suggests he has a ruthless streak and given good coaching this ''might'' be the medicine we need.

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Well going by Saturday.....we have a demotivated, poor squad, a disorganised & clueless manager who needs time to get to know his squad, get them fit and motivated, fans who have no patience left and a board with their heads in the sand, hoping that another high risk choice will come good.

That about sums up my feelings coming away from Carrow Road.

But hell some say he''s won two games, some say Phelan won those games......what the truth is none of us know!

One thing for sure Martin talked the talk in the press pre match with no backing it from the team performance and now the manager has talked the talk so we can judge him post Saturday''s Brum game!

And all us fans can''t agree on much other than we play in yellow shirts!

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I think most of us are confused as to why we have gone for a Rooky when we are told that we are looking for promotion this season.

AN talks a good game and has a good record,in Scotland, in a short management career. Good stuff so far.

If he can get buy in from the squad for his syle of play he may have success, let''s hope he does.

Evidence from Saturday would not support that. his post match comments that some squad members are basically too big for their boots are undoubtedly true, but it appears he has made a declaration of war.

What confuses me is what makes him think he is going to win this battle, the ultimate question in this debate will be "who the feck are you" and "what have YOU done" The answer to that is going to be " not much" either as a player or a manager.

We often forget,but managers like Lambo had won a champions league medal, had studied for his coaching badges in Germany and had learned under some of the best. Now if he got into a whose got the biggest willy debate he had a good chance of winning it, with AN, what has he got to offer.

I suppose there are three possible outcomes to this public smack in the face with a gauntlet, one is that the players tow the line, good news, two is that the players fail to give it their best and AN gets shot of them, which is the end of things for this season, or three the players fail to respond and the crowd gets AN sacked before he can restructure the squad. My fear is the latter and then off we go again.

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The players were not good enough last year and looked like an average Championship side, which is what they have turned out to be. A massive clear out was needed and the fact that it did not happen has left us where we are.

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I''m not confused, more like exasperated, or actually maybe it''s both.

In the past 12 months we:

stick with an under performing experienced manager

suddenly sack him with just 5 tough games to go

appoint a complete novice from local radio

bring in an experienced sidekick

lose the experienced sidekick

sack the coach

bring in an experienced coach

sack the inexperienced underperforming manger

bring in an arguably less experienced manager

allow the experienced coach to leave

.....and in the last few games:

the inexperienced manager pulls out some good results just before being fired

the experienced coach wins at the league leaders

the experienced coach and the just arrived inexperienced manager have a good though nervy win at home

the inexperienced manager, who is supposed to be a good man manager, loses at home

the supposed good man manager then lambasts the whole of his squad labelling them too big for their boots and not making any effort

Do you know what? I genuinely have no idea what is going to happen next. Not a scoobies. It wouldn''t even surprise me if the inexperienced but supposedly good man manager decided it was all too tough and left, leaving the ex radio guy to come back from his holiday in the sun to take over on an emergency basis with whoever is currently in charge of corporate hospitality as a sidekick..............and then maybe a sports wear retailer buys out our gastronomic cranberry loving owner changing or colours to black with white vertical stripes.

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So...

We changed the first team coach

then we changed the manager

then the new first team coach left

but the problem is the players?

I have worked in unstable and disjointed organisations and it is not uncommon for employees to look out for themselves and only do what is asked of them rather than going above and beyond.

How is a team supposed to bond and perform as a unit -the key to championship success - when someone keeps changing the key cogs within the machine?

This season has been mismanaged to the point of absurdity and if someone was to tell me that our new goalkeeping coach was Bryan Gunn and Fotheringham was going to return as player/coach, I would barely bat an eyelid.

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TIL 1010 wrote the following post at 26/01/2015 1:55 PM:

Following the defeats at Reading and Preston we had according to most on here the best and strongest squad in the division led by a *** manager who could not get them to perform but now we have apparently a brilliant manager with the same squad that now needs dismantling, shipping out and new players brought in.

So what do you think Tilly?

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[quote user="Vanwink"]I think most of us are confused as to why we have gone for a Rooky when we are told that we are looking for promotion this season.

AN talks a good game and has a good record,in Scotland, in a short management career. Good stuff so far.

If he can get buy in from the squad for his syle of play he may have success, let''s hope he does.

Evidence from Saturday would not support that. his post match comments that some squad members are basically too big for their boots are undoubtedly true, but it appears he has made a declaration of war.

What confuses me is what makes him think he is going to win this battle, the ultimate question in this debate will be "who the feck are you" and "what have YOU done" The answer to that is going to be " not much" either as a player or a manager.

We often forget,but managers like Lambo had won a champions league medal, had studied for his coaching badges in Germany and had learned under some of the best. Now if he got into a whose got the biggest willy debate he had a good chance of winning it, with AN, what has he got to offer.

I suppose there are three possible outcomes to this public smack in the face with a gauntlet, one is that the players tow the line, good news, two is that the players fail to give it their best and AN gets shot of them, which is the end of things for this season, or three the players fail to respond and the crowd gets AN sacked before he can restructure the squad. My fear is the latter and then off we go again.[/quote]Some good points VW. As to the highlighted part maybe Mr Neil should respond to that question by asking the same of the players. (My fear is your third scenario as well)

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Every year the pundits look at the 3 teams relegated from the Premiership and pronounce them favourites to go back. But it is relatively rare for a club to bounce back with much the same squad that relegated them - possibly West Ham a year or so ago is the most recent, don''t think they made many changes.

And the fans of the relegated clubs lap it up too. After all we have a squad of "premiership players" is the cry. "What about the parachute money?" Etc. etc.

Except that we don''t have a Premiership squad - we have a squad of players who have set foot in the Premiership - and failed to stay there. Not the same thing at all. We''ve added the likes of O''Neil and Camern Jerome to that group.

What we have is a the nucleus of a squad that didn''t fight hard enough to stay in the Premiership and doesn''t seem particularly willing to fight to get back there.

Ruddy doesn''t seem over-bothered about not being in the England group any more, Lafferty, Tettey, Olsson and the Scots lads are unlikely to lose their international places because their countries don''t have sufficient strength in depth.

Then we have Grabban who seems to be Cureton mark two i.e. does well as the big fish in a small pond, but freezes when he''s asked to hack it in a larger club with greater expectations.

The two possible exceptions seem to be Ofoe - who can''t get fit - and Redmond, who is desperate to retain his England U21 place in the forthcoming summer tournament knowing mind that some of the eligible first team players may be picked (though not Sterling apparently). Redmond basically has something tangible to aim for.

So what confuses me is why anyone thinks the manager, any manager, is going to change the mindset of most of the present squad overnight, and without some radical surgery.

Alex Neil knows he has a lot of work to do, he knows he needs hungrier players. Time is not on his side.

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Tilly I noticed similar too. But what really surprised me on Saturday was how our new manager put the blame solely at the players feet....when anyone, I mean anyone, could see that HE messed up hugely with his team selection (regardless of injuries), team tactics, substitutions and by the looks of things failure to inspire and motivate the players to want it as much as Brentford.......so, all the things a manager is paid to do he failed to deliver....worrying times

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What would you have done differently Mark, considering the players he had available?

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Exactly H, it was the same team that beat Cardiff, just Whittaker in for O''neil who was injured like all our other centre midfielders, your other point mark was that he failed to motivate the players, yet moan about AN addressing that (very bluntly which I admire).

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I think McNally has messed up big time. Did he seriously think an unknown player manager from a small time Scottish Club was likely to gain the respect of half a dozen internationals, albeit that none of them are that great. Having made a good deal in bringing in Mike Phelan it was blindingly obvious he would not stay particularly as AN was bringing in his own coach.

This team need a straight talking experienced manager and certainly the more sensible approach would have been for Phelan to be given his chance. We seemed to be tightening up a bit on Phelan''s arrival but it was total Press Hype to suggest AN''s arrival from the stand at Bournemouth made any difference. On the other hand I would accept there are too many managers on the merry go round who keep floating between Clubs but are not a lot of use in the long term.

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[quote user="Indy"]Well going by Saturday.....we have a demotivated, poor squad, a disorganised & clueless manager who needs time to get to know his squad, get them fit and motivated, fans who have no patience left and a board with their heads in the sand, hoping that another high risk choice will come good.

That about sums up my feelings coming away from Carrow Road.

But hell some say he''s won two games, some say Phelan won those games......what the truth is none of us know!

One thing for sure Martin talked the talk in the press pre match with no backing it from the team performance and now the manager has talked the talk so we can judge him post Saturday''s Brum game!

And all us fans can''t agree on much other than we play in yellow shirts![/quote]

Exactly this ^^

Condescending pr*t o OP

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[quote user="vos"] Did he seriously think an unknown player manager from a small time Scottish Club was likely to gain the respect of half a dozen internationals, albeit that none of them are that great. [/quote]

I hope that Neil has the authority from being club manager to kick ass and sort the players out regardless of their status,  internationals or not.   The are incapable to sort themselves out and have been for over two seasons.  Hughton tried and failed, Adams tried and failed, we cannot afford another time. Neil has to be the man to stand up to any egos their may be and if he feels they are not going to co-operate or do things how he wants then they should be shipped out as soon as possible. 

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Sorry lakey but if Hughton & Adams couldn''t sort them out how is a nobody from a small Scottish team going to do better with the egos?

Just hope that the atmosphere Saturday wakes up the entire club from top to bottom!

I''m hoping for a reaction this weekend!

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Indy wrote the following post at 26/01/2015 6:24 PM:

Sorry lakey but if Hughton & Adams couldn''t sort them out how is a nobody from a small Scottish team going to do better with the egos?

I fear there is not a cogent answer to this question Indy.

I wait to be proved wrong!

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[quote user="Indy"]Sorry lakey but if Hughton & Adams couldn''t sort them out how is a nobody from a small Scottish team going to do better with the egos?

Just hope that the atmosphere Saturday wakes up the entire club from top to bottom!

I''m hoping for a reaction this weekend![/quote]

I think you''re doing AN a dis-service there.   Its early days and he doesn''t seem the kind of character to put up with false or enlarged egos. He has seen the problems now and will be getting a good idea of where the issues are. Will be interesting to see his respsonse to what he has seen now at first hand and whether the writing is on the wall for some players.  And whether the players like it or not, he is the manager - and imo will be a lot stronger and more forthright than Hughtons and Adams.

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Neils team selection/formation/tactics on Saturday showed him to be the small time Scottish league manager that I feared he would be.

The players put in as much effort as they normally did for Adams so it is very much same old same old.

Even the playoffs are out of the question and I am supposed to console myself with the fact that the season ticket prices have been frozen at Premier League prices.

This club stinks

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What makes you think that though Lakey? Because if he pushes too hard with his background he will lose the dressing room very quick. You have to be able to manage different personalities different ways......not everyone is motivated by the same things or attitude!

If you don''t have a CV to back your words then it can all end very bad.

For what its worth I believe the whole attack on the players is only to appease the booing crowd....giving them what they want to hear.....the proof will come on Saturday!

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As far as I''m concerned the majority of this squad can do one. Rip it up and start again. Even if a miracle were to happen and we go up this lot would be an embarrassment in the PL. Give Neil the time and funds to make the team his own.

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[quote user="Indy"]What makes you think that though Lakey? Because if he pushes too hard with his background he will lose the dressing room very quick. You have to be able to manage different personalities different ways......not everyone is motivated by the same things or attitude!

If you don''t have a CV to back your words then it can all end very bad.

For what its worth I believe the whole attack on the players is only to appease the booing crowd....giving them what they want to hear.....the proof will come on Saturday![/quote]

One of Neil''s attributes that have been identified at Hamilton were the way he deals with people of all kinds.  He is one of those people who commands respect as a person - and it is my belief that he will be able to deal with any issues there may be in the squad because of that.  I don''t think he will lose any of the players  - but if he does, it should be the players that go, not him.  A line has to be drawn in the sand sometimes and if there are any that don''t give their best for whatever reason for the new manager,  they should be shown the door and the sooner the better.

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I read on a thread from the Accies fan that he doesn''t deal well with some of the bigger players.

But we will see, hope your right.

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[quote user="vos"]I think McNally has messed up big time. Did he seriously think an unknown player manager from a small time Scottish Club was likely to gain the respect of half a dozen internationals, albeit that none of them are that great. Having made a good deal in bringing in Mike Phelan it was blindingly obvious he would not stay particularly as AN was bringing in his own coach.

This team need a straight talking experienced manager and certainly the more sensible approach would have been for Phelan to be given his chance. We seemed to be tightening up a bit on Phelan''s arrival but it was total Press Hype to suggest AN''s arrival from the stand at Bournemouth made any difference. On the other hand I would accept there are too many managers on the merry go round who keep floating between Clubs but are not a lot of use in the long term.[/quote]That is a direct contradiction.. Phelan has never managed. He has zero experience of being the man with whom the buck stops.And judging by the fact that he has never got a managerial job, despite innumerable opportunites to apply, and the fact that he has now taken yet another job as an assistant/coach, it doesn''t actually look as if he wants to be a manager.

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It''s that old expectation disease biting home again. So many expected us to walk this league that they have continually looked for scapegoats because we aren''t doing so. But the chances of us actually doing so were never that great and the expectation was fuelled by the relegated clubs being the early season favourites and our bullish board. Something they always are and rarely live up to. In fact the early season favourites were Cardiff. Followed by Fulham and then us. Next best were Derby and Wigan. Of them only Derby are above us.

 

The board of course were bullish and hopefully still are. To not aim to win the league would probably see us relegated. It did last time in 2008/9. I don''t have to be bullish. I can call it how I see it and despite the recent past the majority of seasons I''ve supported us we''ve finished in mid-table. Unless you''re one of the Chelsea / Man Utds of this world I should imagine the story is the same for most clubs. But we still have a chance of going up, don''t we? Because the Championship remains competitive while there''s still a chance of top six.

 

In the five games before Adams resigned  with Phelan in situ we had 10 points. That''s 2 points per game and promotion form. But McNally was getting emails from disgruntled fans baying for Neeyuls blood. He resigned and a new man was appointed. We won 2 and lost 1. And the booing and hollering in the stadium was fever pitch even though it meant that those 5 games had gone to 8 and the 8 had yielded 16 points. Still 2 points per game. Are we really going to go into melt down everytime we lose a game?

 

 

 

 

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Nutty, the problem is we are making up for a completely unacceptable rub of form before Christmas. Now it is pure frustration. One week we look too good for thus level, the next we don''t look up to league 1. We have 2 or 3 players that seem to be holding the team together patched up with a weak, slow and unfit spine.

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