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Monty13

So who would you have put in midfield today?

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There''s some pretty vocal criticism of Whittaker''s selection today, but with so many CMs out of action, what was the alternative? Genuinely interested in what other''s would have done. There''s no Tettey, Howson, Vadis and last minute no O''neill. What''s the obvious answer I''m missing?

Personally I think the lack of options in CM and how good Brentford are technically, necessitated a change of formation.

I would have gone 451.

Brought in Garrido, pushed Olsson up and dropped Lafferty to make us more balanced. Benched Hooper and brought in Hoolahan.

But still my only options to play CM with Johnson are Whittaker...maybe Bennett? aren''t they? Given that option before the game I probably would have picked Whittaker and Johnson to break up play with Hoolahan in front.

The only other alternative is to play Bennett or Hoolahan next to Johnson in a 442 isn''t it? Who would have been happier with that without the benefit of hindsight?

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McGrandles could play in central-midfield, but it''s a lot of pressure to put on a player with such limited championship experiance against a team like Brentford that are very comfortable at passing through central midfield. Even then, McGrandles would probably prefer to play in a more advanced role.
Basically, you''re kind of f***ed no matter what you try.

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We were extremely light in m-f, not just because of Whittaker playing - it wasn''t really a game for both Lafferty and Redmond, at least not without another body in the middle...perhaps we couldn''t because we were just short of numbers.

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Same defence

----------------Johnson-----

-----E.Bennett--------Lafferty

----------------------------------

Redmond--------------Grabban

---------------Jerome

4-3-3, sit back to invite Brentford onto us, negating our CB''s lack of pace then counter attack with all that pace going forwards. Get the ball going towards their goal as quickly as possible.

We weren''t going to be able to compete with them today by trying to match them, we should have tried to park the bus and counter as we''re so light in midfield and lack technical players who can provide killer balls to unlock defences

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You start Hoolahan in CM with Johnson and Bennett & Redmond on the wings in a 4-4-2 - it is not scribed in stone to field two defensive midfielders ffs.

Cease with the mind-numbing excuses.

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Darth Catbeard,
Johnson as a lone holding player wouldn''t have worked. He lacks the mobility and positional awareness to play in that role and would be up against one of the better attacking midfielders in the league. Factor in that Brentfords playing style is based around trying to get players in-between the defence and the midfield and Johnson would get slaughtered. 
Despite all that, you''ve probably found the only system I think could reasonably work. A 4-1-4-1 with Johnson, E.Bennett and Hoolahan in the centre, with Lafferty and Redmond out wide, is possibly the best you could do considering the lack of central-midfielders available for this game. 
          

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[quote user="Shyster"]You start Hoolahan in CM with Johnson and Bennett & Redmond on the wings in a 4-4-2 - it is not scribed in stone to field two defensive midfielders ffs.

Cease with the mind-numbing excuses.[/quote]
That would not improve the defensive ability of the side in any capacity. We would have looked better going forward, but would''ve lost because Brentford would have had even less trouble going through that midfield.

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Are you kidding with that, Fry? That selection in that formation would''ve been ripped an even bigger ''new'' ars*hole.

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McGrandles. That''s his favoured position isn''t it?

Cannot fathom the Whittaker decision today at all.

His patchy performances at FB both this season and last should''ve signalled he is not the man for such a key role.

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Wes[/quote]

All things considered, we had the ingredients to play the diamond, Johnno sits, wes at tip.

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Johnson''s role would be very limited in that system. Roam to break up play while we''re back defending then release the ball to Grabban/Bennett/Jerome/Redmond then wait about 30/40 yards out in case the ball comes back, if he receives a clearance he''d be allowed to dive forwards with Martin filling the gap as Brentford play through the middle and we''re going to offer very little out wide.

I wouldn''t expect your standard CM duties for any of those three, Johnson would be a ball winner only, Laffs and Bennett would defend in a shape with the team then have the responsibility of starting counter attacks, I''d let Brentford have the majority of possession so none of them would need to establish themselves in the middle. It wouldn''t have been pretty, but needs must.

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[quote user="Shyster"]Are you kidding with that, Fry? That selection in that formation would''ve been ripped an even bigger ''new'' ars*hole.[/quote]
So, we''re f***ed either way. [:D]
and seeing as that''s the case no matter what start McGrandles. He''s played central midfield for the U-21''s all season. He lacks Championship experiance but I find it unlikely he''d be any more exposed than Whittaker, Wers or E.Bennett in that role.
If only O''Neil had broken his foot before we sent McGeehan out on loan...

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[quote user="Drazen Muzinic"]McGrandles. That''s his favoured position isn''t it?

Cannot fathom the Whittaker decision today at all.

His patchy performances at FB both this season and last should''ve signalled he is not the man for such a key role.[/quote]
Whittaker can, apparently, play in central midfield and has done so in the past.
I didn''t think it was possible but apparently Whittaker can play worse than he does at right-back.

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I''d have put myself (AN) in there lol:

1) Isn''t he registered as a player also?

2) He''s a central midfielder

3) I''ve a feeling his post match comments about Brentford being hungrier and wanting it more wouldn''t have applied if he''d have been out on the pitch!!

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Thought about this actually a bit more. I remember when Southampton had a few injuries last season, out came the youth players. Gallacher, reed, Shaw, chambers all got their break when injuries were on the table, all in vital survival games.

Why do we not trust our youth enough to do the same? People like mcgrandles and hall-johnson are available and we shunned them in favour of an out of form and out of position Whittaker. If we can''t trust our youth players during an injury crisis then what is the point of even having a youth team?

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Bit of an odd one today but at least Whittaker has the excuse of being out of position.

Those around him needed to do more.

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What a daft question....

Wes, Bennett & Redmond in front of Johnson in a diamond.....not rocket science as a result we had no midfield and Brentford controlled this area.

I''m no manager but have my doubts that Neil is either.

We might be misdin Phelan.

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It''s very unfortunate for AN that we have the injuries and suspensions that we do, at the begining of the season we seemed to be overloaded in the midfield but now we are looking stretched.

I really don''t think we had done our homework properly on Brentford today, to go into that game with such an open mid field was really inviting them to come onto us which they did very quickly and very successfully.

With the limited choices he had I think at the very least we should have tried to be more compact in the middle and played the ball through mid field rather than lobbing it over the top providing the Lino so many opportunities to gleefully wave his flag.

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We needed to play Wes today for ball retention. Should have been Bennett and Johnson in CM and Wes instead of Lafferty. This Lafferty on the left business does NOT work.

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Agree with the comments about the diamond formation, or McGrandles. I thought Lafferty was even worse than Whitaker, and Turner wasn''t much better. 

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[quote user="Monty13"]There''s some pretty vocal criticism of Whittaker''s selection today, but with so many CMs out of action, what was the alternative? Genuinely interested in what other''s would have done. There''s no Tettey, Howson, Vadis and last minute no O''neill. What''s the obvious answer I''m missing?

Personally I think the lack of options in CM and how good Brentford are technically, necessitated a change of formation.

Is that not the position that our new manager used to play. He couldn''t be worse than whittacker!

I would have gone 451.

Brought in Garrido, pushed Olsson up and dropped Lafferty to make us more balanced. Benched Hooper and brought in Hoolahan.

But still my only options to play CM with Johnson are Whittaker...maybe Bennett? aren''t they? Given that option before the game I probably would have picked Whittaker and Johnson to break up play with Hoolahan in front.

The only other alternative is to play Bennett or Hoolahan next to Johnson in a 442 isn''t it? Who would have been happier with that without the benefit of hindsight?[/quote]

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McGrandles was the only alternative - who is an attacking cm (ie howson/hooper/wes role) who looked star struck on his debut against millwall.

His time will come - but a debut today is a great starting option on when looked at in hindsight.

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[quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Shyster"]You start Hoolahan in CM with Johnson and Bennett & Redmond on the wings in a 4-4-2 - it is not scribed in stone to field two defensive midfielders ffs.

Cease with the mind-numbing excuses.[/quote]
That would not improve the defensive ability of the side in any capacity. We would have looked better going forward, but would''ve lost because Brentford would have had even less trouble going through that midfield.
[/quote]

But it would improve our attacking play.

If Brentford can accommodate Pritchard why can''t we Wes?

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I agree that wes would improve our attacking play CUSDP. However we failed to get the ball to wes on sat when he did come on and even he cant be dangerous if he doesnt have the ball. And it was there that we struggled.

We did carry a creative threat of sat; Our problem was we could not get the ball and when we did have it could not find the dangerous players - ie wes and Redmond. When they did get it (not often enough) we created.

The problem was our cm could not recover the ball; only 4 won tackles and 3 three interception as brentford moved the ball around us. Then when we did get the ball the passed appallingly. In all three activities Whittaker outperformed BJ. ( on passing only hooper was better than whits, before he tired - that shows how bad the rest of the team was)

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