We got no Cash

[Newton 0]

Buh wrote the following post at 03/02/2015 12:58 PM:

Newton, you don''t half reek of fail mate...

 

Bum constructive comment as one has come to expect from u

[Yellowbeagle 0]

If we have to restrain our spending due to us having spent our budget, or maybe at the top end of FFP, then the board are doing the right thing. I know its exciting to see new players all the time but the players we have are good enough they just need to start getting it together as a team, personally I''d prefer to see a smaller but more close knit squad anyway. Also rather than twisting every situation to have a go at the board lets be realistic there were next to no clubs signing many players, prem or otherwise.

[Newton 0]

Yellow other than Derby whi had a good window u probably correct

The problem I have is that despite having a large expensive squad it is lop sided with no wide left mid players (perhaps Olsson could fit in there)

 

[Buh 0]

um

We can see you sneaking out newton

[Newton 0]

Please stop making me respond to this thread I am exhausted

 

If u not careful will go into a long explanation on how our transfer spending was calculated in summer & ask Purple to check it

 

 

[morty 0]

[URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/f81391985_zpsba1ccc4c.gif.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/f81391985_zpsba1ccc4c.gif[/IMG][/URL]

[chicken 0]

Right, seeing as this is becoming somewhat entertaining, rather than throw up a new thread I''ll add it here.People moaning about Adams bringing in too many players. Erm, wake up?!!! Everyone with an ounce of sense knew that Adams had a mammoth task on his hands. It''s why I do have a bit of sympathy for people who didn''t think he was up to it initially because the size of the task would be big for an experienced manager, let alone one with only a few games. However - that is also the reason why I feel he deserves quite a lot of praise. I felt he bought well in the summer, considering the amount of players he needed to bring in. He also did reasonably well in terms of results - maybe not meeting every person''s expectations, but he certainly didn''t do badly.So lets look at the squad changes.Players out after premier league relegation:Sold: Snodgrass, Fer, Pilkington and Surman (4).Players allowed to leave on frees or at the end of a loan: Yobo, Elmander, Fox, Nash, Gutierrez (5).Loaned out: RVW (1).That''s a total of 10 players. A number I predicted before the summer hit us. And let''s be honest, how many of those players have we really missed? Fer - maybe, but as he is proving at the moment, he perhaps doesn''t possess enough ''bustle'' for this league. Other than that Snograss maybe, but certainly none of the others.Lets look at who we signed:Grabban, Lafferty, O''Neill, Cuellar, Jerome, McGrandles, Vadis, Miquel.We also signed Louis Thompson but loaned him straight back out again. And Hoiveld on loan.So we signed 9 players to bring into the squad and another who would effectively join us next summer. And that''s before we consider the likes of Bassong who was loaned out for the first half of the campaign.Like for like?1) Elmander and RVW for Grabban and Jerome.2) Yobo for Cuellar.3) Fer for Vadis.4) Fox for O''Neill.5) Bassong for Hoiveld.6) Surman and Pilkington for McGrandles and Lafferty.7) Snodgrass - Murphey and Redmond given more prominent roles.8) Nash - Declan Rudd given a more prominent role.9) Miquel brought in as additional defensive cover.Considering all of those I would happily take 1, 4, 7, 8 and 9. 3 is still very much up in the air, I''d like to say I saw enough in Vadis'' appearances so far to say he has more about his game but that would be a tad premature I feel. 5 may have been dictated by Bassong. 6 and 2 are the only two I would take over what we have now. Yobo, by the way, was released in the summer and according to wiki is without a club still.So overly, considering the amount of change that went on, I think Adams actually did relatively well. Just that left hand side issue, but as I have said before - a) he wanted Surman to stay, but the player wanted to leave b) Lafferty could have worked out better and if it had would we be saying different? One or two players not quite making it out of that number is not bad going.I''d take our strike force now, over the one we have had since promotion to the premier league bar Holt.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Great summary Chicken.

I''d have kept Yobo, he''d be quality in this league, I suspect the bigger problem with him could have been the wages he was on/wanted.

I made the point when we had that long winded £17.1m debate a couple of weeks ago, players that we lost were players that no longer wanted to be or who had no value to us in terms of playing or selling on, therefore as you said he did a great job if getting new faces in and we needed the numbers.

As for now, there were still others that fans would have liked us to get rid of we''re fans who have no inside knowledge of dealings, ie what went on with Dorrans.

[whoareyou? 0]

I find it hard to see how anyone can deny a lot of money has been wasted since last summer.Cuellar - No better than what we had who NA fell out with and sent out on loan to Watford.Lafferty - Not used in his favoured position so failed.Miguel - Not playing at all.O''Neill - Has been decent when playing.Jerome - Definite hitGrabban - Tailed off after a decent start but seems very similar in a way to Jerome so both were never going to play together.Thompson - Bought and sent back on loan - Why?McGrandles - Looks way to slight to be playing Championship football.Hooiveld - Complete waste of money.Vadis - Known to be injury prone and even injured when we bought him for a lot of cash.2.5 hits out of 10 isn''t a great record.

[Herman 9,750]

FFS how many times.Miquel, McGrandles and Thompson are players for the future. How hard is it to get the concept of building a team for the long term into people''s heads.

[mrs miggins 0]

Do Thompson and Mxgrandles really count as misses in your book?

[mrs miggins 0]

Or his distant cousin mcgrandles that is.

[Newton 0]

Chicken lets look at it another way

3 Centre Forwards who cant play together

Jerone, Grabbham & Lafferty - why 3 ?

3 Centre Halves - the best one constantly gives away penalties - none up to the job

2 x Loans both past there best and what was San Miquel all about - fee paid to Arsenal £1.5M ? 22 years old & not even L1 standard (looked cack against Preston}

3 Midfield Players

O''Neil good cover, Vardies injured when we signed him and still injured (how much did we pay£4M must have seen us comin ?) & Grandles - light years away from playing in 1st team needs to go on loan to L1

Thompson still at Swindon - ok

sold 2 x wide left midfield players & no replacements signed - squad unbalanced

Anyone who thinks this was good needs there head tested - first & last time we have that much cash to waste in a summer

The summer policy a shambles and this now being used as a reason why we not signing anyone because squad too big

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="pete"]This post and all the replies are what is wrong with

this message board. An original post that claims to be correct and

replies claiming the OP is misguided.

The truth maybe that the Board are trying to keep the club debt free

which seems to be Boards be all and end all. To keep the club debt free

for all time is a pipe dream unless all ambition to improve has been

conceded. It is possible that is what Delia et al are trying to achieve

i.e. stagnation.[/quote]DM has stated time and again that the

club aims to live within its means, i.e money spent has to be earned.

This does not mean the club will never contemplate taking on debt. For

example, there is a long term aim to significantly enlarge ground

capacity. That could not be done without taking on debt. The stated

policy implies only that the cost of any debt taken on (repayments and

interest payments) has to be affordable out of income.As far as the "debate" on this thread goes, nobody has produced a shred of evidence that the Dorrans transfer fell through because our board wouldn''t pay the  price. Such evidence as there is suggests rather that WBA pulled out of letting Dorrans go when they failed to land Olsson. MAYBE the reason was that they were looking at Dorrans going as the least damaging way of making financial room for a left back (originally from Swansea but when they couldn''t get him, Olsson.)

[Newton 0]

Herman wrote the following post at 03/02/2015 4:39 PM:

FFS how many times.

Miquel, McGrandles and Thompson are players for the future. How hard is it to get the concept of building a team for the long term into people''s heads

Herman how can San Miquel who will be 23 this summer be classed as one for the future

[hogesar 9,657]

Because Newts, my friend, Defenders tend to peak around 27-29...have i got that correct? I think I have.

[westcoastcanary 0]

For info, this season Dorrans has STARTED in 19 of the 23 PL games played by WBA; he was an unused sub for another game. He also started in one Cup game. That doesn''t look to me like a player who is obviously surplus to requirements. It again SUGGESTS to me that he is a valuable squad player who they were prepared to let go only to make room for someone coming in.

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="Newton"]Herman wrote the following post at 03/02/2015 4:39 PM:

FFS how many times.

Miquel, McGrandles and Thompson are players for the future. How hard is it to get the concept of building a team for the long term into people''s heads

Herman how can San Miquel who will be 23 this summer be classed as one for the future[/quote]Very easily. Because at 22 he is the youngest of all our first-team squad centre-backs. Cuellar is 33, Martin is 29, Turner is 31, Ryan Bennett is 24 and Bassong is 28. And the chances are Cuellar and Turner will have disappeared from that list by this time next year.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Newton"]Chicken lets look at it another way

3 Centre Forwards who cant play together

Jerone, Grabbham & Lafferty - why 3 ?

3 Centre Halves - the best one constantly gives away penalties - none up to the job

2 x Loans both past there best and what was San Miquel all about - fee paid to Arsenal £1.5M ? 22 years old & not even L1 standard (looked cack against Preston}

3 Midfield Players

O''Neil good cover, Vardies injured when we signed him and still injured (how much did we pay£4M must have seen us comin ?) & Grandles - light years away from playing in 1st team needs to go on loan to L1

Thompson still at Swindon - ok

sold 2 x wide left midfield players & no replacements signed - squad unbalanced

Anyone who thinks this was good needs there head tested - first & last time we have that much cash to waste in a summer

The summer policy a shambles and this now being used as a reason why we not signing anyone because squad too big[/quote]I compared like for like because there really isn''t much better way of doing it. It''s very easy to say players have failed this season so far when what you are comparing them to is your own expectations - which may or may not be realistic.Who says that Jerome, Grabban and Lafferty needed to play together? In my mind Adams was looking to get strikers that were flexible in their roles but essentially could forfill the traditional target man and the pacier man roles. Lafferty and Jerome have been used and considered target men and Grabban and Hooper are both players who are used to playing a little deeper - Grabban especially considering how much of his career he has played as a winger. In that sense it set us up nicely. I wouldn''t expect you to see all three at once. But then that''s why you need squad depth. I think Grabban has shown though, that he can adapt to play as the target man although I feel that is not his best approach.As for the wide left bit - I think you will find I already said this was one area I don''t think we improved. However, as I have said before - it is actually not where we have been having problems. The defense is. Having a decent left midfielder would not have prevented Whittaker having to play CM. And would not have made a difference to many games where we lost because of defensive errors. Well, not unless we signed Bale perhaps.It''s just a shame that when someone offers a balanced view, a couple of people who don''t want it to be balanced try and tilt it.I very much suspect several haven''t experienced 20+ years of supporting our football club. I have played for 16 years and managed as well.Our biggest issue is consistency in our play going forward and sloppiness defensively. Again I have already said this but once more wont hurt will it? We have shown this season that we have the quality to really dish out a thumping, we have shown we can mix it with the other top teams in this league. Just not consistently and not without looking defensively fragile.

[whoareyou? 0]

I''m not sure we were in a position to be buying players for the future. We were told the aim was to get back into the Premier League at the first attempt so why spend ( at an educated guess) around £3+ million on players who were not at a stage in their career where they could be part of this? It makes no sense to me at all when it means as a result we are no longer able to buy players who could help with that.And had we got back at that first attempt i suspect these three would still not be part of the squad as we have gone up another level.

[chicken 0]

Oh and talking of people that need their heads tested - anyone who has seen O''Neil play and says he is just ''good cover'' can join the list.He''s a better ball player than both Tettey and Johnson and does the leg work as well. Probably our best all round midfielder at this current time. Vadis may prove to be better but he needs to get fit and into the team first.

[Buh 0]

"Had" we got back at our first attempt?

Just out of interest how many minutes did it take to give up this season? 8-12? Is walking hard with a backbone made of angel delight?

[Herman 9,750]

[quote user="Newton"]Herman wrote the following post at 03/02/2015 4:39 PM:

FFS how many times.

Miquel, McGrandles and Thompson are players for the future. How hard is it to get the concept of building a team for the long term into people''s heads

Herman how can San Miquel who will be 23 this summer be classed as one for the future[/quote]A) He is only 22 and....B) He is only 22.

[Buh 0]

Bloody hell! 22! Well past it!

Bet he gets discount at b and q on a Wednesday!

[Maccys Back 0]

Buh-mkin you talk out your ar5e, you were one of the "we won''t get relegated, we just need to clap together" brigade last season and surprise surprise it the same sort of tosh this season!! Your BORING give it a rest and go do your homework and watch hollyoaks or whatever childish twits do. Much appreciated

[Herman 9,750]

[quote user="whoareyou"]I''m not sure we were in a position to be buying players for the future. We were told the aim was to get back into the Premier League at the first attempt so why spend ( at an educated guess) around £3+ million on players who were not at a stage in their career where they could be part of this? It makes no sense to me at all when it means as a result we are no longer able to buy players who could help with that.And had we got back at that first attempt i suspect these three would still not be part of the squad as we have gone up another level.[/quote]Of course we were. We still had a bit of money and it maybe a risk, but it''s a good idea to get in young potentials at a low price, let them develope and then get them to slot into the team at a later date, rather than have to search around, paying extortionate transfer/loan fees for even riskier aquisitions.

[whoareyou? 0]

Like Butterfield?

[Maccys Back 0]

Herman right now I''d swap mcgrandels and miquel for a left winger for sure. Or would you rather have these two "prospects". Its no wonder the clubs in such a state with fans that would collect future prospects while the main team sink to the conference!

[Buh 0]

Yep, youre right. No other club than us tries to develop young players but ultimately they can''t break through to the first team and are sold. Only us and we are a laughing stock for it

Obvs

[Herman 9,750]

[quote user="Maccys Back"]Herman right now I''d swap mcgrandels and miquel for a left winger for sure. Or would you rather have these two "prospects". Its no wonder the clubs in such a state with fans that would collect future prospects while the main team sink to the conference![/quote][:S]If you''re having a meltdown at being 8th in the Championship I dread to think what you were like when L1 was beckoning.