Lessingham Canary 99 Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting that both these young players shone in the FA cup winning youth side, but have both failed to make an impact whilst out on loan, who do you think will come through and make it into regular 1st team football ? (yes I remember a certain Harry Kane on loan, especially when we played West Ham away, he looked awful).Why have none of these 2 come through, have they been loaned to poor sides (York & Yeovil) who are desperate for goals and the pressure is too much, or are they simply not as good as we thought / hoped? especially when Toffolo and McGeehan having being doing so well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted February 10, 2015 But Jamar didn''t shine, he didn''t play (over age). Hi did however score a cracker for Southend when on loan there and was SKY MOTM, so there''s hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessingham Canary 99 Posted February 10, 2015 stand corrected, thanks Ray, I had it in my mind he was part of that team, only thing is he is at the age where he should be starting to show some consistent form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Phantom 0 Posted February 10, 2015 Whilst we have some very exciting talent coming through our youth set up and they will make it into first team players neither of these will be in that camp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Grumpy 0 Posted February 10, 2015 York are a very poor side at the moment and for some unknown reason they’re not giving Carlton Morris a start. So he’s only getting 20 minutes or so coming off the bench when they are usually already struggling in the game. It’s not been the most worthwhile loan move for him, to be honest. I don’t think it’s a reflection on the player but choosing which club to loan players to is always a bit of a gamble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 10, 2015 [quote user="Mr Grumpy"]York are a very poor side at the moment and for some unknown reason they’re not giving Carlton Morris a start. So he’s only getting 20 minutes or so coming off the bench when they are usually already struggling in the game. It’s not been the most worthwhile loan move for him, to be honest. I don’t think it’s a reflection on the player but choosing which club to loan players to is always a bit of a gamble.[/quote]Its a very difficult thing to manage (unless you are a truly exceptional prospect) as the step up from youth football to regular league football is a massive one. Its not a given that one of our youth players will walk straight into a starting lineup. The fact that Toffolo, McGeehan and Jacob Murphy managed it may not just be about their ability, but also about the needs of the respective clubs they have been loaned to.The alternative is to drop the player to a lower league standard, but then you are defeating the object a bit, in terms of his development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted February 10, 2015 Carlton Morriss is by far the better player. Loza criminally overrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted February 10, 2015 ''criminally overrated'' good grief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,517 Posted February 10, 2015 Morris and Loza have the talent and ability. All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Phantom 0 Posted February 10, 2015 [quote user="lake district canary"]Morris and Loza have the talent and ability. All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool. [/quote]Lacky how many of the U21 and development games have you been to over the past few seasons. I have done a fair amount and these 2 really haven''t shone at all. It is little wonder they have struggled out on loan it just follows the pattern Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,517 Posted February 10, 2015 [quote user="Lowestoft Canary"][quote user="lake district canary"]Morris and Loza have the talent and ability. All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool. [/quote]Lacky how many of the U21 and development games have you been to over the past few seasons. I have done a fair amount and these 2 really haven''t shone at all. It is little wonder they have struggled out on loan it just follows the pattern[/quote]None, but then all I am saying is don''t write them off, because they would not have got this far if they didn''t have something. Its very easy to dismiss people when they are finding things difficult, when - as NN says - what they need is our support. They are Norwich players, after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacks Back 0 Posted February 10, 2015 I can''t see either of them ever playing above league 1 or 2 football to be brutally honest. If i had to choose I''d say Morris purely because his physicality makes him much more suitable to english football. Maybe Loza could make it abroad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lewis Esquire 0 Posted February 10, 2015 I wonder how many people would have said the same about Grant Holt at that age... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barclay End Lower 0 Posted February 10, 2015 I think that Carlton Morris has a bit more about him. Fairly decent in the air, can play with the ball at his feet and is bloody strong. It''s hard to compare because they''re totally different players. In English football it''ll be Morris who will go furthest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted February 10, 2015 Plenty of time for both to find their feet yet. Of the extremely limited view I have had I am slightly more impressed by Loza that Morris and feel he is most likely to succeed.However what is clear is that neither are ready for even a subs place with the first team yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessingham Canary 99 Posted February 11, 2015 Both remind me of Ryan Jarvis, remember him scoring a cracker against Liverpool in the PL, and then spent his time at place like Orient, looks like a similar pattern emerging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,517 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="Lessingham Canary"]Both remind me of Ryan Jarvis, remember him scoring a cracker against Liverpool in the PL, and then spent his time at place like Orient, looks like a similar pattern emerging.[/quote]A lot of it is down to temperament and whether they can keep their feet on the ground and not believing the hype that surrounds football and things that are said of them, good or bad. Same with the Murphys really or any young player. Head down, be prepared to learn, don''t be afraid to make mistakes and just work hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chip20 68 Posted February 11, 2015 I notice Morris wasn''t even on the bench for York last night. Has his loan expired or was he dropped? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="Chip20"]I notice Morris wasn''t even on the bench for York last night. Has his loan expired or was he dropped?[/quote]Isn''t he back at City now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted February 11, 2015 Yes, his loan has ended, as has McGeehan''s. There is also talk of Loza''s being cut short at Yeovil Town. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chip20 68 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="morty"]Isn''t he back at City now?[/quote]I see from today''s article about Jacob Murphy that he is. It''s such a pity that CM only got a few late sub appearances at York. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="Chip20"][quote user="morty"]Isn''t he back at City now?[/quote]I see from today''s article about Jacob Murphy that he is. It''s such a pity that CM only got a few late sub appearances at York.[/quote]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="morty"]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is.[/quote]Exactly Morty.If they''re not deemed good enough for even a regular game at League 2 level, how on earth do we expect them to come anywhere near our bench in the Champs/Prem???I''d be looking to see if we can get another club at the same level as the likes of York interested, but if there''s no takers, then it may very well be that the lads simply aren''t good enough to cut it - despite whatever early promise may be there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="morty"]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is.[/quote]Exactly Morty.If they''re not deemed good enough for even a regular game at League 2 level, how on earth do we expect them to come anywhere near our bench in the Champs/Prem???I''d be looking to see if we can get another club at the same level as the likes of York interested, but if there''s no takers, then it may very well be that the lads simply aren''t good enough to cut it - despite whatever early promise may be there...[/quote]I blame the demise of a decent reserve team league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted February 11, 2015 Free footy again next week Morty. Man Citeh this time. I think the developmentleagues and cups are better than any reserve league i''ve seen in the past... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted February 11, 2015 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Free footy again next week Morty. Man Citeh this time. I think the developmentleagues and cups are better than any reserve league i''ve seen in the past...[/quote]I''ll be there[Y]The trouble is when the players get too old to play, theres a kind of void they drop into.And The youth below get pushed through, so theres little place for them.Yes, the development league is great, but its very geared towards players making certain grades, by certain ages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted February 11, 2015 I agree buddy. But there''s always been players who develope later. Grant Holt and Ricky Lambert are good examples of playerswho got to the top via another route. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master J-Do Pur 0 Posted February 12, 2015 I think it''s pretty hard to predict how a youngster will turn out unless you are seeing them in training. I really didn''t think Harry Kane would make it after seeing him for us. He also had poor loan moves to other teams before us. I remember at the time a lot of coaches raving about him but i couldn''t see anything in his performances. I also thought Ross Barkley was poor when I saw him at Shef Wed a few years ago. It''s obviously great if a player hits the ground running on loan, but the training ground still has a bigger say on younger players and the loan is to get them used to adult football. Even recently, I thought Ibe looked OK against us at Derby, but nothing fantastic. A poor loan performance doesn''t necessarily mean a poor player.Maybe I am just a really crap scout. I could probably have worked for Peter Grant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkchance1 0 Posted February 13, 2015 Seen a bit of Morris at York, never made a start got about 10 -20 minutes towards ends of games. Not much chance to make much impression. Dont think move really worked for him, also York are pretty ropey at home so difficult to judge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted February 20, 2015 Jamar Loza at Yeovil. Did he make an impact? 5 appearances including 4 starts in a month would suggest he did. Here''s what he had to say... http://www.canaries.co.uk//news/article/jamar-loza-norwich-city-yeovil-town-under-21s-2280717.aspx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites