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Lessingham Canary

Carlton Morris or Jamar Loza ?

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Interesting that both these young players shone in the FA cup winning youth side, but have both failed to make an impact whilst out on loan, who do you think will come through and make it into regular 1st team football ?

(yes I remember a certain Harry Kane on loan, especially when we played West Ham away, he looked awful).Why have none of these 2 come through, have they been loaned to poor sides (York & Yeovil) who are desperate for goals and the pressure is too much, or are they simply not as good as we thought / hoped? especially when Toffolo and McGeehan having being doing so well.

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But Jamar didn''t shine, he didn''t play (over age). Hi did however score a cracker for Southend when on loan there and was SKY MOTM, so there''s hope.

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Whilst we have some very exciting talent coming through our youth set up and they will make it into first team players neither of these will be in that camp

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York are a very poor side at the moment and for some unknown reason they’re not giving Carlton Morris a start. So he’s only getting 20 minutes or so coming off the bench when they are usually already struggling in the game. It’s not been the most worthwhile loan move for him, to be honest. I don’t think it’s a reflection on the player but choosing which club to loan players to is always a bit of a gamble.

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[quote user="Mr Grumpy"]York are a very poor side at the moment and for some unknown reason they’re not giving Carlton Morris a start. So he’s only getting 20 minutes or so coming off the bench when they are usually already struggling in the game. It’s not been the most worthwhile loan move for him, to be honest. I don’t think it’s a reflection on the player but choosing which club to loan players to is always a bit of a gamble.[/quote]Its a very difficult thing to manage (unless you are a truly exceptional prospect) as the step up from youth football to regular league football is a massive one. Its not a given that one of our youth players will walk straight into a starting lineup. The fact that Toffolo, McGeehan and Jacob Murphy managed it may not just be about their ability, but also about the needs of the respective clubs they have been loaned to.The alternative is to drop the player to a lower league standard, but then you are defeating the object a bit, in terms of his development.

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Morris and Loza have the talent and ability.  All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Morris and Loza have the talent and ability.  All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool.

[/quote]

Lacky how many of the U21 and development games have you been to over the past few seasons. I have done a fair amount and these 2 really haven''t shone at all. It is little wonder they have struggled out on loan it just follows the pattern

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[quote user="Lowestoft Canary"][quote user="lake district canary"]Morris and Loza have the talent and ability.  All they have to do is work hard and they will get their rewards. It may take a while, but anyone writing either of them off at this moment in time is a fool.

[/quote]

Lacky how many of the U21 and development games have you been to over the past few seasons. I have done a fair amount and these 2 really haven''t shone at all. It is little wonder they have struggled out on loan it just follows the pattern[/quote]

None, but then all I am saying is don''t write them off, because they would not have got this far if they didn''t have something.  Its very easy to dismiss people when they are finding things difficult, when - as NN says - what they need is our support. They are Norwich players, after all.

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I can''t see either of them ever playing above league 1 or 2 football to be brutally honest.

If i had to choose I''d say Morris purely because his physicality makes him much more suitable to english football. Maybe Loza could make it abroad

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I think that Carlton Morris has a bit more about him. Fairly decent in the air, can play with the ball at his feet and is bloody strong. It''s hard to compare because they''re totally different players. In English football it''ll be Morris who will go furthest.

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Plenty of time for both to find their feet yet. Of the extremely limited view I have had I am slightly more impressed by Loza that Morris and feel he is most likely to succeed.

However what is clear is that neither are ready for even a subs place with the first team yet.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]Both remind me of Ryan Jarvis, remember him scoring a cracker against Liverpool in the PL, and then spent his time at place like Orient, looks like a similar pattern emerging.[/quote]

A lot of it is down to temperament and whether they can keep their feet on the ground and not believing the hype that surrounds football and things that are said of them, good or bad.   Same with the Murphys really or any young player.  Head down, be prepared to learn, don''t be afraid to make mistakes and just work hard.  

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I notice Morris wasn''t even on the bench for York last night. Has his loan expired or was he dropped?

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[quote user="Chip20"]I notice Morris wasn''t even on the bench for York last night. Has his loan expired or was he dropped?[/quote]Isn''t he back at City now?

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[quote user="morty"]Isn''t he back at City now?[/quote]
I see from today''s article about Jacob Murphy that he is. It''s such a pity that CM only got a few late sub appearances at York.

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[quote user="Chip20"][quote user="morty"]Isn''t he back at City now?[/quote]
I see from today''s article about Jacob Murphy that he is. It''s such a pity that CM only got a few late sub appearances at York.
[/quote]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is.

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[quote user="morty"]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is.[/quote]Exactly Morty.If they''re not deemed good enough for even a regular game at League 2 level, how on earth do we expect them to come anywhere near our bench in the Champs/Prem???I''d be looking to see if we can get another club at the same level as the likes of York interested, but if there''s no takers, then it may very well be that the lads simply aren''t good enough to cut it - despite whatever early promise may be there...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="morty"]I think the next stage in all these lads development is crucial, and I really don''t know what the answer is.[/quote]Exactly Morty.If they''re not deemed good enough for even a regular game at League 2 level, how on earth do we expect them to come anywhere near our bench in the Champs/Prem???I''d be looking to see if we can get another club at the same level as the likes of York interested, but if there''s no takers, then it may very well be that the lads simply aren''t good enough to cut it - despite whatever early promise may be there...[/quote]I blame the demise of a decent reserve team league.

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Free footy again next week Morty. Man Citeh this time. I think the developmentleagues and cups are better than any reserve league i''ve seen in the past...

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Free footy again next week Morty. Man Citeh this time. I think the developmentleagues and cups are better than any reserve league i''ve seen in the past...[/quote]I''ll be there[Y]The trouble is when the players get too old to play, theres a kind of void they drop into.And The youth below get pushed through, so theres little place for them.Yes, the development league is great, but its very geared towards players making certain grades, by certain ages.

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I agree buddy. But there''s always been players who develope later. Grant Holt and Ricky Lambert are good examples of playerswho got to the top via another route.

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I think it''s pretty hard to predict how a youngster will turn out unless you are seeing them in training. I really didn''t think Harry Kane would make it after seeing him for us. He also had poor loan moves to other teams before us. I remember at the time a lot of coaches raving about him but i couldn''t see anything in his performances. I also thought Ross Barkley was poor when I saw him at Shef Wed a few years ago.  It''s obviously great if a player hits the ground running on loan, but the training ground still has a bigger say on younger players and the loan is to get them used to adult football. Even recently, I thought Ibe looked OK against us at Derby, but nothing fantastic. A poor loan performance doesn''t necessarily mean a poor player.Maybe I am just a really crap scout. I could probably have worked for Peter Grant.

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Seen a bit of Morris at York, never made a start got about 10 -20 minutes towards ends of games. Not much chance to make much impression. Dont think move really worked for him, also York are pretty ropey at home so difficult to judge.

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