Premier league offers

[Barndoor 0]

I found it interesting that a number of our players had several offers from premier league clubs but none were interested in moving. Players include:

Russell Martin

Alexander tettey

Jonny howson

Bradley Johnson

So despite most on here thinking Johnson is a waste of space a number of premier league clubs don''t

[nutty nigel 7,507]

Its been posted on here many times that Bradley Johnson was the player other clubs showed most interest in over the summer. He was also one of the first to commit to us for this season. He''s proud to where the shirt and I''m proud he does. He''salso been pretty much first choice throughout his time here for Lambert, Hughton and Adams. While all tthe doesn''t make him immune from criticism it does make some of the criticism suspect to say the least.

[mrs miggins 0]

*facepalm, why didn''t we cash in, why didn''t we cash in

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]*facepalm, why didn''t we cash in, why didn''t we cash in[/quote]

I sometimes wish the old players would just go away and lets get some new ones in.  I somehow feel that some of the old guard have been through too much at Norwich, Ruddy has had a torrid time the last two seasons at the hands of premiership strikers.  Martin too looks to have lost some of his freshness.  This is going to sound harsh, but this season I think Johnson looks like a bit of a League 1 player punching above his weight.    He scored a couple of goals, but for the team''s sake he is not quick enough to be a box to box player and his passing isn''t good enough to be a playmaker.  So we get gaps behind, we get out of shape - as happened against Bolton when he came on.  This could be down to the manager asking him to play that role - but is he suited to it?   I don''t think so, not at this level.

Wes is another who doesn''t do it for me any more.  This season he has been all over the pitch, again leaving gaps - and not creating that much either - mainly dead ends and for a forward attacking player, not enough shots or goals - and the team often looking stronger when he has left the pitch.   

I would dearly like to see the youngsters given their head.  Tell them they are good enough, stick them on the pitch and let them find their feet.  The two Murphys on the wings with Redmond in the no 10 role, Jerome or Hooper up front.  A defensive midfielder - Tettey maybe - to hold the line with the defence.  Two other midfielders Voo (when fit) and O''Neill to patrol the midfield, Rudd in goal.  Anyone here since the Lambert days has shot their bolt - complete high with Lambert and through the mill the last two seasons with all the Hughton stuff.  In the cold light of day I''ll think no, lets be more pragmatic, but at this moment in time, with the way the season''s gone so far, I would say get rid of the ones that aren''t performing and get some fresh blood in.  We can''t be doing much worse than we are at the moment in terms of promotion stakes, so its got to be worth a try.  A brave manager to meet the challenges head on, not pandering to pampered players hoping they might just pull their fingers out. That''s what Hughton did - and it didn''t help him either.

[sgncfc 1,221]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]*facepalm, why didn''t we cash in, why didn''t we cash in[/quote]

I sometimes wish the old players would just go away and lets get some new ones in.  I somehow feel that some of the old guard have been through too much at Norwich, Ruddy has had a torrid time the last two seasons at the hands of premiership strikers.  Martin too looks to have lost some of his freshness.  This is going to sound harsh, but this season I think Johnson looks like a bit of a League 1 player punching above his weight.    He scored a couple of goals, but for the team''s sake he is not quick enough to be a box to box player and his passing isn''t good enough to be a playmaker.  So we get gaps behind, we get out of shape - as happened against Bolton when he came on.  This could be down to the manager asking him to play that role - but is he suited to it?   I don''t think so, not at this level.

Wes is another who doesn''t do it for me any more.  This season he has been all over the pitch, again leaving gaps - and not creating that much either - mainly dead ends and for a forward attacking player, not enough shots or goals - and the team often looking stronger when he has left the pitch.   

I would dearly like to see the youngsters given their head.  Tell them they are good enough, stick them on the pitch and let them find their feet.  The two Murphys on the wings with Redmond in the no 10 role, Jerome or Hooper up front.  A defensive midfielder - Tettey maybe - to hold the line with the defence.  Two other midfielders Voo (when fit) and O''Neill to patrol the midfield, Rudd in goal.  Anyone here since the Lambert days has shot their bolt - complete high with Lambert and through the mill the last two seasons with all the Hughton stuff.  In the cold light of day I''ll think no, lets be more pragmatic, but at this moment in time, with the way the season''s gone so far, I would say get rid of the ones that aren''t performing and get some fresh blood in.  We can''t be doing much worse than we are at the moment in terms of promotion stakes, so its got to be worth a try.  A brave manager to meet the challenges head on, not pandering to pampered players hoping they might just pull their fingers out. That''s what Hughton did - and it didn''t help him either.

[/quote]

Hell, I must be getting old - I agree with most of this.

I wanted to keep most of the relegated players but they just aren''t performing for Adams.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Though I was not at the AGM, and am having to rely on various reports, re this matter of players ''offers'' over the summer, all the reports are high on rhetoric and short on specifics . I know it''d be difficult, but there seems little factual evidence.I for one find it implausible to say the least that that there were hoardes of PL clubs chomping at the bit for the services of  the likes of Turner and Johnson. They are both Champ players at best, and it may well be that the kind of deal they may (or may not ) have been offered at these mythical PL clubs was probably no better than the sort of thing they are on at Norwich ?

[City 2nd 191]

Don''t get to say this often ! But great post LDC.

Having watched the U21''s and seen the talent and commitment within their ranks, a fact obviously noticed by other championship msnagers (re Murphy, Toffolo etc) and

having watched all but one first team home game, and some away, I can only agree with you.

Too many of the latter are underpergormin going for sure and it is time for that to be addressed. Let''s hope Phelan buts into that logic too!

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Though I was not at the AGM, and am having to rely on various reports, re this matter of players ''offers'' over the summer, all the reports are high on rhetoric and short on specifics . I know it''d be difficult, but there seems little factual evidence.

I for one find it implausible to say the least that that there were hoardes of PL clubs chomping at the bit for the services of  the likes of Turner and Johnson. They are both Champ players at best, and it may well be that the kind of deal they may (or may not ) have been offered at these mythical PL clubs was probably no better than the sort of thing they are on at Norwich ?
[/quote]

 

Oh Dear, poor Reggie, can''t handle the truth, doesn''t seem to fit his agenda.

 

 

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I suspect that said "premier league clubs" were mainly Burnley, Leicester and Crystal Palace and at the time the players probably thought that we had just as good a chance of being in the prem next season as any of them do.

It will be interesting to see if the attitude of said players is different in January and the next few results/weeks will probably be pivotal in that sense because if we drift any further into mid table then they will probably take the view that we are not likely to go up. For this reason the Adams experiment may already have been allowed to drift for too long.

[hogesar 9,611]

Interesting how some can turn Prem clubs being interested in several of our players who decided they''d rather stay - into a negative.

Those like LDC who largely criticise the likes of Bradley Johnson just simply do not know more about football than Paul Lambert, Chris Hughton, Neil Adams, their coaching staff, and the Premier League Scouts who recommened clubs made offers for them.

That is a fact. We''re playing poorly at the moment but people seem to forget these are players who are capable of playing well.

Bradley Johnson had a teriffic start to the season and not just in goals - he was our best midfielder in terms of long passing. Which is a shock. But he was the only one making them.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Just simply no, LDC. We''ve seen the impact of bringing in one youth player (Murphy) and it hasn''t worked, hes been too naive defensively and hasnt been working for the team. With the team as disjointed as it is at the moment, bringing in more unproven, naive players will just make the situation worse (or at the absolute best) too unpredictable.

We have a good squad, we have good players. Johnson is a good player, Wes is an excellent player. Play them correctly and watch us win more games than not.

I want an experienced manager playing our experienced championship players correctly. As it looks like we''re stuck with Adams for now, the mixture of an inexperienced manager playing a whole new bunch of inexperienced players sounds like we''ve given up on any hope of promotion.

The players aren''t the problem.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Kurious Oranj"]Just simply no, LDC. We''ve seen the impact of bringing in one youth player (Murphy) and it hasn''t worked, hes been too naive defensively and hasnt been working for the team. With the team as disjointed as it is at the moment, bringing in more unproven, naive players will just make the situation worse (or at the absolute best) too unpredictable. We have a good squad, we have good players. Johnson is a good player, Wes is an excellent player. Play them correctly and watch us win more games than not. I want an experienced manager playing our experienced championship players correctly. As it looks like we''re stuck with Adams for now, the mixture of an inexperienced manager playing a whole new bunch of inexperienced players sounds like we''ve given up on any hope of promotion. The players aren''t the problem.[/quote]

Quote Alan Hansen " You never win anything with kids"

Cough cough...he was certainly proved VERY wrong!

Adams very early on stated that if they were good enough they were old enough, then fell back onto his "experienced" players.

It''s an old failing that effects some  new managers to let the senior pros have far to much say.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="Kurious Oranj"]Just simply no, LDC. We''ve seen the impact of bringing in one youth player (Murphy) and it hasn''t worked, hes been too naive defensively and hasnt been working for the team. With the team as disjointed as it is at the moment, bringing in more unproven, naive players will just make the situation worse (or at the absolute best) too unpredictable. We have a good squad, we have good players. Johnson is a good player, Wes is an excellent player. Play them correctly and watch us win more games than not. I want an experienced manager playing our experienced championship players correctly. As it looks like we''re stuck with Adams for now, the mixture of an inexperienced manager playing a whole new bunch of inexperienced players sounds like we''ve given up on any hope of promotion. The players aren''t the problem.[/quote]

Quote Alan Hansen " You never win anything with kids"

Cough cough...he was certainly proved VERY wrong!

Adams very early on stated that if they were good enough they were old enough, then fell back onto his "experienced" players.

It''s an old failing that effects some  new managers to let the senior pros have far to much say.

[/quote]

Aaah the old ''Alan Hansen got it wrong, so are you'' argument. So it had nothing to do with schmielchel, pallister, bruce or cantona that Man U went on to win the league that season? And you''re comparing our youngsters with beckham, scholes etc... Very very rarely do a crop of youngsters come along that good to make a difference. Also when they do come along like Southampton have produced over the last number of years, they rarely stay too long unless it''s at a top club like United.

To get an immediate return to the PL which we are good enough to get, we need experience. Experience to get out of one of the toughest leagues in the world where anyone can actually beat anyone (except maybe Blackpool). Yes of course there''s room for the odd player good enough, with a spark of brilliance to push their way into the squad (youngsters always will come through) but to chuck a team of youngsters in just because some players look a bit off (largely playing in the wrong positions and in disjointed formations) is madness.

if a players good enough then yes they will force their way into the team. Murphy is one of the best prospects we have at the club but has not shown consistently any reason why we should bring in more youngsters and just discard our more experienced, technically better players.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]I suspect that said "premier league clubs" were mainly Burnley, Leicester and Crystal Palace and at the time the players probably thought that we had just as good a chance of being in the prem next season as any of them do.

It will be interesting to see if the attitude of said players is different in January and the next few results/weeks will probably be pivotal in that sense because if we drift any further into mid table then they will probably take the view that we are not likely to go up. For this reason the Adams experiment may already have been allowed to drift for too long.[/quote]Pretty much what I was saying Jim. As usual TCC resorts to what he does best...insults etc, but I have no agenda and he has no more idea of what ''the truth'' is than any of us do.There is no doubt that several of our older players are more than good enough for the Champ, but not for the PL. If they were,then we would not have been relegated. I know that does not fit in with your agenda, TC, but that (relegation) is an undisputable fact/truth. Surely tha answer to this is that we need a mixed group of senior players and youngsters as the nucleus of our team, all of which must be fully fit and committed to the cause, and led by someone who is well versed in the etiquette of the Football League. And, unfortunately, I''m far from convinced that those two things are in place.If you want to describe that as ''an agenda'' then fair enough. But, the evidence is there from the Lambert era that it''s a pretty effective starting point for success.

[lake district canary 4,531]

My reasoning is simple (and I don''t profess to be an expert, Hogesar, its just an opinion).

If we are going to be a mid-table team I would rather be a mid table team with some fiery youngsters in it giving it a good go, rather than a mid table team of experienced non-performers - at least it is building for the future.  We''ve got resources - the youngsters at the club.  Time they were used.  Jacob Murphy had to go away on loan to prove he was ready - that should not have been necessary imo - he is in the first team squad here after all.   Insistence on sticking with players was a Hughton trait - Adams seems to be following  suit.  Not a good idea.    Get the youngsters in - not like he did in putting Murphy and Loza on with 6 minutes to go in a match.........but showing faith in them from the start of a match.  He gave Murphy a start and it didn''t go great, but one start is not enough.   If you remember the first time you were given a start in the school team, or local club team after being the new boy, it is tough. You have a heightened sense of responsibility - and it doesn''t always go well.   If you believe in the young players, give them more chances - and as I said my main reasoning for this is because the experienced hands are hardly doing much better.  I''m fed up with seeing Johnson misplace passes.  I''m fed up with seeing Wes running into dead ends. I''m fed up with seeing Martin looking dour all the time - he uses to smile a lot more.  I''m fed up with feeling that Ruddy must be frustrated by the football he is seeing in front of him.  

We are supposed to be challenging for promotion.  Well if the lot that are going out there every week aren''t up to it for whatever reason, ship them out and get some in that are, or might be, given half the chance.

[Hairy Canary 668]

Well said LCD. I agree with much of that.

Sometimes there is a lot of benefit from a fresh start, for the players as well as the club. Relegation after a tough season is not easy to bounce back from, particularly if not enough fresh "untainted" blood is brought in. Our confidence proved to be very fragile, crumbling away after a couple of difficult results, and I personally see the root of that in last seasons failure.

Cashing in on a few more of the current squad and replacing them with a blend of youngsters and new blood would have been a better option to retaining the relegated group.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Jim Smith"]I suspect that said "premier league clubs" were mainly Burnley, Leicester and Crystal Palace and at the time the players probably thought that we had just as good a chance of being in the prem next season as any of them do. It will be interesting to see if the attitude of said players is different in January and the next few results/weeks will probably be pivotal in that sense because if we drift any further into mid table then they will probably take the view that we are not likely to go up. For this reason the Adams experiment may already have been allowed to drift for too long.[/quote]

Pretty much what I was saying Jim. As usual TCC resorts to what he does best...insults etc, but I have no agenda and he has no more idea of what ''the truth'' is than any of us do.

There is no doubt that several of our older players are more than good enough for the Champ, but not for the PL. If they were,then we would not have been relegated. I know that does not fit in with your agenda, TC, but that (relegation) is an undisputable fact/truth. Surely tha answer to this is that we need a mixed group of senior players and youngsters as the nucleus of our team, all of which must be fully fit and committed to the cause, and led by someone who is well versed in the etiquette of the Football League. And, unfortunately, I''m far from convinced that those two things are in place.

If you want to describe that as ''an agenda'' then fair enough. But, the evidence is there from the Lambert era that it''s a pretty effective starting point for success.
[/quote]

 

"McNally added: “We could have sold another 16 players this summer – and some would’ve had a choice of Premier League clubs. But they wanted to stay and fight to get us back in the top flight.

“People like Michael Turner, Bradley Johnson, Jonny Howson, Russell Martin, Alex Tettey. I name those five because they could have gone to several Premier League clubs. But we didn’t have a murmur out of any of them, despite their wage cut. They wanted to commit to Norwich City to help us go up. One even changed his honeymoon date."

So how can you claim that the statement above has "little factual evidence"?

 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,718]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Though I was not at the AGM, and am having to rely on various reports, re this matter of players ''offers'' over the summer, all the reports are high on rhetoric and short on specifics . I know it''d be difficult, but there seems little factual evidence.

[/quote]

That is the second time David McNally has stated this in public so may I suggest Reggie that if you think he is a liar send him an e-mail telling him so. It will take no longer than posting your disbelief on here.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Jim Smith"]I suspect that said "premier league clubs" were mainly Burnley, Leicester and Crystal Palace and at the time the players probably thought that we had just as good a chance of being in the prem next season as any of them do.

It will be interesting to see if the attitude of said players is different in January and the next few results/weeks will probably be pivotal in that sense because if we drift any further into mid table then they will probably take the view that we are not likely to go up. For this reason the Adams experiment may already have been allowed to drift for too long.[/quote]Pretty much what I was saying Jim. As usual TCC resorts to what he does best...insults etc, but I have no agenda and he has no more idea of what ''the truth'' is than any of us do.There is no doubt that several of our older players are more than good enough for the Champ, but not for the PL. If they were,then we would not have been relegated. I know that does not fit in with your agenda, TC, but that (relegation) is an undisputable fact/truth. Surely tha answer to this is that we need a mixed group of senior players and youngsters as the nucleus of our team, all of which must be fully fit and committed to the cause, and led by someone who is well versed in the etiquette of the Football League. And, unfortunately, I''m far from convinced that those two things are in place.If you want to describe that as ''an agenda'' then fair enough. But, the evidence is there from the Lambert era that it''s a pretty effective starting point for success.[/quote]

I agree and disagree Reggie. Where I disagree is that i think quite a lot of our players are good enough for the premier league although several need to be playing at their very best and well managed to sustain it.

I don''t think its surprising that "premier league teams" will have been after some of our players because i do believe we have good players who really ought to have been good enough to keep us in the premier league last season. Not only that but we have good players who we were able to sign on our wage structure. If i''m a manager of the likes of Burnley, Leicester, Palace, QPR or West Brom then I too would be sniffing around the Norwich players thinking "well here are some guys who kept Norwich up for a couple of seasons and probably only got relegated because of Hughton and who will probably accept £30k a week."

This is why January worries me because you can convince such players that sticking around is the right thing if we are genuinely challenging and the players believe in the manager but after the last 10 games i am just not sure that either will apply. Our only saving grace may be that the bottom 4 or 5 in the prem are so sh*t this year (making it even more frustrating that we got ourselves relegated) that a move to them may still not appeal and I can''t see the clubs higher up the league being as interested in most of our players. especially on their current form.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="TCCANARY"] 

"McNally added: “We could have sold another 16 players this summer – and some would’ve had a choice of Premier League clubs. But they wanted to stay and fight to get us back in the top flight.

“People like Michael Turner, Bradley Johnson, Jonny Howson, Russell Martin, Alex Tettey. I name those five because they could have gone to several Premier League clubs. But we didn’t have a murmur out of any of them, despite their wage cut. They wanted to commit to Norwich City to help us go up. One even changed his honeymoon date."

[/quote]

In other words premiership clubs made enquiries about players, but it doesn''t mean the players were told about it...........hence there not being a murmur from them.  

In public relations-speak, you have to read between the lines.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

There is some of what LDC writes that I''d agree with. Other points perhaps not so.Implicit in what he says is that the youngsters will be more hungry, upwardly mobile, and be receptive to new ideas. Probably true. And I''d certainly agree with him when he says that , if we are going to throw our lot in with youngsters, it''s no good playing them for a few minutes, and keep chopping and changing. The management must show the courage of their convictions and stick with it for a decent run.But, where I''m not so sure he''s right is, firstly, his assumption that we are going to be ''mid table team''. I really cannot be 100% confident about that. What happens if the experiment goes horribly wrong and we continue our slide down the table and end up flirting with relegation.? No doubt someone like TCC will say that is an ''agenda'' or some other such idiotic suggestion, but I defy anyone to say that this is not beyond the realms of possibility. Second,if that scenario were to take place, then that would heap intolerable pressure on young shoulders, they would lose confidence, the crowd would get on their backs and the whole thing could quite easily spiral downwards out of control.As has been stated in other threads, the next 4 wks are crucial in this. If the adams régime and the current squad can shake off this malaise and start climbing the table again, then all to the good, but if we continue to struggle, then it''ll be time to see if what was said last night IS in fact true...ie are there PL clubs queueing up to sign our senior players, and if so, do the players concerned want out ?

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TCCANARY"] 

"McNally added: “We could have sold another 16 players this summer – and some would’ve had a choice of Premier League clubs. But they wanted to stay and fight to get us back in the top flight.

“People like Michael Turner, Bradley Johnson, Jonny Howson, Russell Martin, Alex Tettey. I name those five because they could have gone to several Premier League clubs. But we didn’t have a murmur out of any of them, despite their wage cut. They wanted to commit to Norwich City to help us go up. One even changed his honeymoon date."

[/quote]


In other words premiership clubs made enquiries about players, but it doesn''t mean the players were told about it...........hence there not being a murmur from them.  


In public relations-speak, you have to read between the lines.




[/quote]

 

He said "they wanted to stay", does that mean they were not told about it?

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Though I was not at the AGM, and am having to rely on various reports, re this matter of players ''offers'' over the summer, all the reports are high on rhetoric and short on specifics . I know it''d be difficult, but there seems little factual evidence.[/quote]

That is the second time David McNally has stated this in public so may I suggest Reggie that if you think he is a liar send him an e-mail telling him so. It will take no longer than posting your disbelief on here.

[/quote]Well, Tilly ,the simple answer to you is , if you refer me to where I said DMN is a ''liar'', then I might start to take your rather silly little interjection seriously.......

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="lake district canary"]My reasoning is simple (and I don''t profess to be an expert, Hogesar, its just an opinion).

If we are going to be a mid-table team I would rather be a mid table team with some fiery youngsters in it giving it a good go, rather than a mid table team of experienced non-performers - at least it is building for the future.  We''ve got resources - the youngsters at the club.  Time they were used.  Jacob Murphy had to go away on loan to prove he was ready - that should not have been necessary imo - he is in the first team squad here after all.   Insistence on sticking with players was a Hughton trait - Adams seems to be following  suit.  Not a good idea.    Get the youngsters in - not like he did in putting Murphy and Loza on with 6 minutes to go in a match.........but showing faith in them from the start of a match.  He gave Murphy a start and it didn''t go great, but one start is not enough.   If you remember the first time you were given a start in the school team, or local club team after being the new boy, it is tough. You have a heightened sense of responsibility - and it doesn''t always go well.   If you believe in the young players, give them more chances - and as I said my main reasoning for this is because the experienced hands are hardly doing much better.  I''m fed up with seeing Johnson misplace passes.  I''m fed up with seeing Wes running into dead ends. I''m fed up with seeing Martin looking dour all the time - he uses to smile a lot more.  I''m fed up with feeling that Ruddy must be frustrated by the football he is seeing in front of him.  

We are supposed to be challenging for promotion.  Well if the lot that are going out there every week aren''t up to it for whatever reason, ship them out and get some in that are, or might be, given half the chance.

[/quote]

There lies the problem, you''re accepting we are and are going to be a mid table team. I''m sure the youngsters would play with some passion and fight to keep us around about where we are but are you seriously saying that''s all you want now for this season??

You''re also surmising that''s in solely down to the players as to why we''re in this current situation.

Coach the good players we''ve already got, play them to their strengths. Give ruddy some confidence by having a solid back 4 in front of him, play a formation that doesn''t leave gaping holes in the midfield and the defence vulnerable, give the players some motivation and a kick up their behinds when needed to get them to support each other, give each other options and play as a team, instill some leadership into the team, and yes bring on some young, hungry, raw talent when oppositions are tiring.

Ignoring the quality we have in the squad? Foolish. The squad needs leadership on and OFF the pitch and we currently we just look like a bunch of headless chickens.

[smooth 114]

We had offers for players, I certainly feel many never improved in the prem year on year and hence look journeymen players.

But I am pretty certain many of the teams were thinking they would compete for places and not actually be better than their current starters. As we know it is a squad game and if none of the offers came from a promoted team I find it hard to see where any of those would walk into a first team.

I noted that the ethos around the players was wrong at the end of last year and we needed to freshen up by bringing in fresh recruits and a fair few. Also a new manager from adams.

As mentioned we brought in three defenders at the end of the window and I was pleased with the quantity, but I did wonder about the quality. I think it is clear they are no better than Ryan Bennett or bassong and as they are squad players do not fit the role of bringing in new players of what we need this season.

It has been clear that the traits we saw last year once we concede are still there because we have someone internally in the management position. They are he majority of the same players that have been used to losing.

Do I think offers will come in January for some of our players, maybe Redmond but I cannot see any of the mentioned players leaving for a club in a better position to be a premier league starter. Maybe squad player at most, they look at home right now.

I think earlier this season it was clear to see the disgruntled players. Birmingham at home had johnson play a terrible pass behind Olsson and put us in a dangerous position to which a number of players openly reacted which showed passion and opinions were different. At the brentford game Redmond, johnson had to be pulled away. It is clear that we do have a few problems and Phelan can hopefully address this. But I would hope that we are looking for players coming in of a better quality in January cause we need them.

If offers came in for some of our players, I would be reluctant to let too many go, but I cannot see how they are in a better position. But if eb and pilky left after being on the fringes others may go soon. But if we bring in genuine quality that have the ability to improve each year and look as if they can play in the league above then let''s get them.

Phelan will work it out quickly.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Show me where I said I''d accepted we were going to be a mid table team?     I only said that it looks as if it is where we are heading and in that situation, we might as well give the youngsters/newcomers more chances.  I want us to get promoted this season, but on the face of it, unless things improve, we are doomed to mid table mediocrity..............

And yes, Phelan might help, but he isn''t the manager.......

[TIL 1010 4,718]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Though I was not at the AGM, and am having to rely on various reports, re this matter of players ''offers'' over the summer, all the reports are high on rhetoric and short on specifics . I know it''d be difficult, but there seems little factual evidence.

[/quote]

That is the second time David McNally has stated this in public so may I suggest Reggie that if you think he is a liar send him an e-mail telling him so. It will take no longer than posting your disbelief on here.

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Well, Tilly ,the simple answer to you is , if you refer me to where I said DMN is a ''liar'', then I might start to take your rather silly little interjection seriously.......
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 I gave you a constructive response but of course you will choose to sit behind your laptop banging away on here all day attempting to cement your thought that McNally was not telling the truth.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

It does seem like a desperate defence of our players. I wonder if they "had their pick of premiership clubs" it means they simply aren''t motivated enough to get promotion with us, as they know they can get back with one of these clubs?

As for blooding the youth. If we fail to get straight back, then next season we should flip it round, sell off the non-performing senior players and get the youngsters blooded. This season should be the chance to prove we don''t belong in this division though, it''s not going so well but it''s miles away from being a lost cause.

[smooth 114]

What I mean is Phelan will work out players with class and those journeymen. He will come in and note where we need improvements ASAP and if we have the right mentality his experience is going to be very valuable.

But I wholeheartedly agree it is a manager we need. I don''t think adams can take us up with this group he has assembled and keep us up for a season. Hence he should go.

But I also feel that the players that are supposably being touted as having had offers will be less this January after there no shows. If any manager or coach does research and watches them play or sees how they have not improved year on year he will note there has been three managers and coaching staffs and they have not improved.

I cannot see many moving on and it will be a case that we need to bring in quality in January and that means a bit of money.

We have mcgrandles that none of us have seen, the signing who stayed at Swindon for a year... Very good prospects but this January we need players to come in and a spine to the team is needed.

We rely on hoops to much let''s hope VOO can keep him out of the team and then hoops can come on for the final 20 minutes with fresh legs.

We needed fresh players, drive and impetus... Not really happening and those stale players are looking it.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Show me where I said I''d accepted we were going to be a mid table team?     I only said that it looks as if it is where we are heading and in that situation, we might as well give the youngsters/newcomers more chances.  I want us to get promoted this season, but on the face of it, unless things improve, we are doomed to mid table mediocrity..............

And yes, Phelan might help, but he isn''t the manager.......

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Your solution of playing the youngsters/newcomers (whoever they are) is accepting mid table mediocrity as you can''t just discard a good squad and expect to gain promotion out of this league.

This season is about bouncing back, gaining promotion at the first chance. We needed an experienced man in charge from the start and we haven''t got that but chucking out the experienced heads on the pitch because ''we might as well'' would be giving up completely.