Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Julian

Martin back at centre half !!!

Recommended Posts


[quote user="lake district canary"]So who was responsible for the two goals?  Turner and Ruddy and lack of cover at the far post.   Not Martin.

[/quote]

Correct, but he is keeping changing defence without any vision. And he is not capable of putting in a strategy. Everybody is playing clueless and without any agression!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Centre half or not what is clear is that he''s not the leader he''s made out to be.

To think some people said we wouldn''t have been relegated if he''d have been captain instead of Bassong...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our worst back four of the season so far Whittaker Martin Turner Ollsen. Changed over last couple of games then reinstated today. Still our worst back four. Terrible. Adams has to learn quickly or ship out.

C''mon you Yellows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lake district canary"]Martin IS a centre-half.    We had better get used to it.


[/quote]

 

No he''s not dear deluded! Wake up and realise, his best place is right back. We other better centre backs Adams got in but refuses to play! Will you back him for that too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m pretty sure LDC posted the comment with a sense of jest.

I cannot understand why we continually play a rb at cb whilst 3 other cbs are kept out the squad. What does Miquel endnote look like? Has he been kidnapped or something? Does he even exist or was this a cover up of expenditure..?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LDC is right, martin is a centre half , but how good is the question. For me he is better at right back for us.

all i can say is that it was a good job he was not responsible for marking cooper as he would, rightly, have been castigated for the two goals yesterday.

Yet Turner was non existant for both yet hardly a voice of criticism. Yes his form is also affected by the constant changing in partner - but his down turn in form is as alarming as grabbans - and turner can be a prem class defender - but currently is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]LDC is right, martin is a centre half , but how good is the question. For me he is better at right back for us.

all i can say is that it was a good job he was not responsible for marking cooper as he would, rightly, have been castigated for the two goals yesterday.

Yet Turner was non existant for both yet hardly a voice of criticism. Yes his form is also affected by the constant changing in partner - but his down turn in form is as alarming as grabbans - and turner can be a prem class defender - but currently is not.[/quote]

I just think that from what I saw yesterday, admittedly on a stream, Martin had a reasonable game compared to Turner and Ruddy and Whittaker.  All of them are culpable up to a point, but for people to keep castigating the choice of Martin at centre back is a little unaccepting.  He IS a centre back now, as well as a RB - and can do either.  His passing from the centre back position is generally good and is better than any of the other cbs we have at that  and his positional sense s good.    He will improve the longer he plays there too.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Martin looked very good at centre half when he played a number of games there in the prem under Lambert he has also looked great there for Scotland. But I remember him having a game or two at CB in our promotion season and he looked woeful and I don''t think his performances there this season have ever been above average, I think it has more to do with hurley burley style of the championship, where you need to be more physically commanding whereas in the prem and international level there is a greater emphasis on technique, I think the same thing is also affecting Olsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let''s be fair about it. Martin did not have a bad game yesterday.

The problem lies with the fact that if he plays centre back we get Whittaker at right back.

I am sorry but Whittaker is a liability. His team play is unpredictable and it makes the game of those playing around him, notably Redmond, very difficult.

Amazingly when we went to three at the back yesterday it was Olsson who made way and Whittaker moved to the left.

It was at that time, with only three at the back, that we had our best attacking play from the back, on the right, from Martin.

It is commonly accepted, I think, that Martin wants to play centre back because of his international inspirations. But that must not be to our detriment. He is by far the best right back we have and he is not good enough to be a regular centre back although as I said previously, I thought he had a reasonable game yesterday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some stats from yesterday;

Redmond 90 mins, zero shots, Josh Murphy 30 mins 2 shots.

Redmond 90 mins, 15 crosses, 3 (20%) accurate, Whitts, 90 mins, 4 crosses, 2 (50%) accurate.

Can someone tell me what he brings to the party that is worth him starting every game and being given the ball so much?

There were numerous times yesterday when the ball was passed out to the right winger, which was Whitts!! and Redmond was strollimng around in a sort of inside right position, now this could be orders but if we have a winger with pace and ball control why the hell aren''t we (he) using the skills to go to the byline and cross the damn thing, on the ocassions he does manage to do this we look far more like scoring.

Personally I think he may be one of those players who cannot see the game more than a couple of yards in front of them, yes he is young and potentially still learning but as far as I am concerned Josh Murphy excites me more and he certainly seems to have a greater awareness of what is hapenning around him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh my god. Redmond is light years away from Murphy im afraid.

Murphy was fresh legs againdt a tiring defence and still couldnt beat the full back and thrn missed from 8 yards.

Norwich fans are fucking stupid. Redmond gets abuse for one misplaced cross after 3 good ones yet Murphy gets applauded and reassured when he loses the ball!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am sorry ray I am not sure what the critique of redmond is doing on this page? Unusually I disagree with you in your summary about yest, his cross led to our goal and he remained our only truly dangerous player, and his passing was as good if not better than most on display - he only misplaced 3 passes - fewer than russ, whittaker, lafferty howson or tettey?

However much I accept his contribution is a matter of opinion the real problem with our 10 game relegation form is not redmonds performances but the shaky foundation at the back; that is not just whittaker or martin, but includes turner and olsson.

As a group they have underperformed all season and the lack of confidence implied in weekly changes in the back 4 is reverberating across the back 4, to the keeper and now the whole team.

The failure of the management team to address this from very early on is fundamental to our current malaise - the lack of leadership & organisation, which must be primarily aimed our most experienced defenders - the team captain and turner (who have never shown anything in that regard - as shown by early partnerhsip games with R Bennett) Perhaps time to give cuellar/hooiveld/iggy partnership a go as they wont be any worse - with both cuellar and hooiveld out playing turner in their last performances.

It is time for Turner to be dropped, and yest was the first time I have seen martin outplay turner at cb.

And it remains a fact that this season the points per game won are double when russ plays right back, not centre back - suggestion the team is more effective and balanced when he (or maybe whit is not) there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hogesar - completely agree.

Murphy did bring a directness - but his passing and crossing remains weak - carrying on the theme from Rays mail he misplaced more passes in his 30 mins than redmond did all game..

Murphy is a sub option only - while redmond deserves to start each week. The failure of the management team to secure a left flank loan to challenge lafferty is another significant and obvious failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Zipper,

I agree, sort of out of context re OP, however it followed on from Yellow Wall''s comments.

I agree his cross did lead to our goal and that sort of makes my point, he doesn''t get enough successful crosses in from the byline considering the amount of ball he has and crosses he makes.

Hogesar made the point that Redmond gets abuse from fans after three good crosses and then one bad one, well that stats show that he makes 4 bad ones then one successful one! I''m not expecting 100% accuracy but I am expecting more than 20%. Also JM did beat the full back and yes he did miss from 8 yards, but the point is he missed and had two shots, Redmond had none. Personally given what we have I just feel JM is more likely to score, I''ve watched him for 4 seasons now and whilst this is big boys football, both he and his brother have an eye for goal, as does Loza.

I would be tempted to start Redmond and JM, with instructions to get to the byline with pace, I wouldn''t give a monkeys if they never cut inside, OK it would mean the oppo would know exactly where they are going but they could create havoc and if nothing else it pulls the FB''s out creating more space in the box, which = more goals, as proven yesterday.

Also, Redmonds pass completion % is good, but IMO that''s because many of those passes are short sharp ones

Take the point re wins with RM at RB, which goes to prove he may be more effective there than SW, it doesn''t prove he isn''t a decent CB. However IMO it proves we need our current CB''s to improve, I can only assume the management don''t see the others ''doing it'' on the training ground. This in turn could prove we made the wrong purchases/loans and that''s another story.

There is another post talking about defenders attacking, it is of course a team game, and we should attack and defend as a team but I get the point and it means our defenders are taking up the slack in our midfield''s ability to create, which can leave us open, so my conclusion is; we either need to play a different way with the players/midfielders we have or we need to go into the market in Jan and get one or two more creative midfild players. I''m not Hoolahan''s greatest fan but I feel he could have done a job yesterday as Reading were a big side and he could have used his abilities to exploit that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]It is time for Turner to be dropped, and yest was the first time I have seen martin outplay turner at cb.

And it remains a fact that this season the points per game won are double when russ plays right back, not centre back - suggestion the team is more effective and balanced when he (or maybe whit is not) there.[/quote]
The thing is, Martin looked OK at centre back in the Prem under Lambert, mainly due to his attacking play, but actually goals conceded went up.
If you look at the stats for yesterdays match: 
Interceptions - Turner: 3 Martin 1
Clearances - Turner 9 Martin 1
Blocked Shots - Turner 1 Martin 0
Tackles - Turner 1 Martin 1
Fouls Conceded - Turner 1 Martin 1
Aerial Duals won - Turner 6 Martin 0
Martin isn''t doing a great deal of defensive work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
crossing is an odd one; even the best in any league rarely exceed a 30% completion rate, 1 in 4 is good and the national average one in 5. As such redmonds 23% ish (consistent with last seasons when he was the most accurate at the club, better than snoddy) is marginally above average.

back to defenders - it comes back to good coaching to drill the back 4 and leadership and organisation to keep a good shape and discipline on pitch. Resolve that and we will go back up teh table - its not rocket science. 3 goals conceded in last 5 games, 3 at home and mainly against out of form opposition highlights how bad we have become and the lack of coaching attention its had. That the manager chose to pressure redmond and his lack of goals in the press pre match shows how misguided the magament team are and how far off the radar the defence is - thats where the focus HAS to be.

I do agree that martin has not been bad at cb; but its about results and him there with whittaker at rb affects our results, and prevents martin getting forward for us to benefit from his crossing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Turners mistakes have lead to three of the last 5 goals?

My dispute is not about martin v turner or anything else - generally I do think turner is better than martin, but i thought that like hooiveld last week turner made more critical mistakes than his partner - it was the same at forest when cuellar played better overall too.

My real point is that the whole defence, including the previously excellent turner, are making bad mistakes due to low confidence, ownership, team work, discipline and commitment (turning his back on coopers run for the winner is a commitment issue) the whole back 4 are struggling with this due to the management - they have not drilled astructure in, given responsibility to organise discipline to a player, amended attacking pattern to address the gaps left by gung ho full back attacking or given any partnership beyond martin / turner the time to develop etc etc.

Once you have a lack of confidence at the back the whole team is affected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just want Turner and Bassong back. Best partnership we''ve had for years and years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...