McNally tweet

[kick it off 1,948]

You know things are bad when Tony Pulis seems to have morphed into a footballing demi-God in the eyes of a good chunk of the fan base.

[Highland Canary 76]

Is the problem with Pulis (and, by implication Warnock and Lennon) that they are too similar to Lambert by offering challenge to the board?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="kick it off"]You know things are bad when Tony Pulis seems to have morphed into a footballing demi-God in the eyes of a good chunk of the fan base.[/quote]Well OK, Kick it off.  I can see the point you are making, but there seemed to be a widely held view, both in the media, and private individuals I spoke to, that yesterday was not about the style of play, or even the quality of performance. All that mattered was to get 3 points.And Adams, the coaches and players spectacularly failed in that quest.Some may not like Pulis''s brand of football, but he unquestionably has an excellent track record of grinding out victories without playing all that well or attractively. It pains me to say it, but this is someting Mick Mc Carthy is demonstrating just down the A140 .Its a trait we have all but forgotten, but one we are going to need to discover very soon if we are to avoid getting dragged into a relegation scrap.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="Ron Manager"]"But there is a line that when reached needs to be acted on, and even though my gut feeling for the past 6 weeks or so is that Neil isn''t ready to be our first team manager, you can''t sack anyone after 3 poor results or so."

But it isn''t just 3 games, its the last 10 or 11, nearly a quarter of the season![/quote]

Well done Ron - It''s 10 or so NOW but nevermind... ! The beauty of hindsight eh?

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

I don''t think the obsessing about Pulis should be seen as short sighted due to his ''brand of football'' - Stoke and Palace were capable of playing pretty crisp and attractive football at times ... certainly better than anything Hughton offered us.

The problem with yearning for Pulis is that I doubt he will return to management at our level when Leicester, Villa, Burnley, WBA and Hull may be looking to recruit before long.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]I don''t think the obsessing about Pulis should be seen as short sighted due to his ''brand of football'' - Stoke and Palace were capable of playing pretty crisp and attractive football at times ... certainly better than anything Hughton offered us.

The problem with yearning for Pulis is that I doubt he will return to management at our level when Leicester, Villa, Burnley, WBA and Hull may be looking to recruit before long.[/quote]

Agreed, I must admit that I was quite surprised by Palace''s neat passing game under Pulis, the bloke''s more than a Rugby manager. But what I like about him also is he''s a ruthless manager, and I think Neil comes across as being a bit Hughton like, a very nice chap, but has he got that ruthless authority to command full respect of the players? I''m not sure that he does unfortunately, he always looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights to me. Good man but it''s not working out for him sadly. Time to go for Pulis whilst we still have a chance - he''s admitted interest in the Cardiff job recently so why not us folks?.

[Sussexyellow 55]

Alex I agree that he probably does not have the full respect of the players. And that may be the root of the problem.

It''s one thing managing the kids who are desperate to get a contract and likely to be compliant, entirely another thing having both the hard and soft man management skills to deal with the ego''s of senior professionals.

[Disillusioned 0]

[URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/sid_norton/media/maxresdefault_zpsb46d2214.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y437/sid_norton/maxresdefault_zpsb46d2214.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Disillusioned 0]

[URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/sid_norton/media/430547d9-8106-44e3-8964-a3c39111f2c0_zps97ad6eaa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y437/sid_norton/430547d9-8106-44e3-8964-a3c39111f2c0_zps97ad6eaa.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[morty 0]

Exactly.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

[quote user="Disillusioned"][URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/sid_norton/media/430547d9-8106-44e3-8964-a3c39111f2c0_zps97ad6eaa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y437/sid_norton/430547d9-8106-44e3-8964-a3c39111f2c0_zps97ad6eaa.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/quote]

Is that you Crafty ? [:P]

[TIL 1010 4,737]

Goodness me how on earth did that happen ?

[Syteanric 1]

maybe Davey Mac is "Scouring the World" for our next manager this time? I hear Coltishall under 14s manager is in the frame...

[River End Canary 0]

Good photo now let''s all make it viral

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]Purple, this is an occasion where I want you to be right and me wrong.

My logic is that if something was going to happen today then that tweet is unnecessary. I read it as a message from the board to the fans to reassure them that they know that action has to be taken.

I agree that there is a whole range of options available and more than there were prior to Mike Phelan coming in. I also think that there will be an issue around still trying to do alright by Neil Adams. However I do not see how if he is relieved from the managers role he can still be around the first team. We do not have your "Outer Hebrides" office so they have a real problem![/quote]Sussex, for what it is worth, this is my view of how we got in this mess and what should be done about it.Firstly, it is not true that this board always or even usually goes for the cheap option. Smith and Jones''s record of spending real money on hiring managers from outside is vastly better than Chase''s. And that was the case here. I don''t think there is any doubt they first went for Mackay. They wanted an experienced manager and made the right choice from those available.But once he fell out of the picture it then became a choice between Adams, who represented a gamble that might or might not work, and the uninspiring likes of Zola, with a record of failure, Or a gamble on an untried Lennon. Posters who are now comparing Adams'' record of failure, as it has turned out, with the record of vaguely competent managers are missing the point. That was not the choice at the time.Now, given we know Adams is not up to the job, the situation ought to be simple. And it would be where it not for the complicating factor of Phelan''s recent arrival. The board may fudge the issue by keeping the status quo and hoping better coaching will do the trick.What should happen is that Adams is moved out of the picture, Holt and Phelan are put in temporary charge, and an outside manager is targeted. Because now, unlike before, there are two obvious candidates available. One is Pulis. I doubt he would come,.although if you look at the Premier League there are not that many clubs where a managerial vacancy might arise. Possibly Sunderland. Perhaps Hull. And the other - possibly more feasible - candidate is Rosler. If he had been available in the summer he would have been my first choice, ahead of Mackay.Rosler is plainly better qualified than Adams, or than Phelan. We have three times in the last 20 years tried the gamble of appointing someone who has never been a manager. It didn''t work with Grant or Gunn and it hasn''t worked with Adams. So it should not be tried again with Phelan.

[morty 0]

Good stuff Purple.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Sussexyellow"]Purple, this is an occasion where I want you to be right and me wrong.

My logic is that if something was going to happen today then that tweet is unnecessary. I read it as a message from the board to the fans to reassure them that they know that action has to be taken.

I agree that there is a whole range of options available and more than there were prior to Mike Phelan coming in. I also think that there will be an issue around still trying to do alright by Neil Adams. However I do not see how if he is relieved from the managers role he can still be around the first team. We do not have your "Outer Hebrides" office so they have a real problem![/quote]Sussex, for what it is worth, this is my view of how we got in this mess and what should be done about it.Firstly, it is not true that this board always or even usually goes for the cheap option. Smith and Jones''s record of spending real money on hiring managers from outside is vastly better than Chase''s. And that was the case here. I don''t think there is any doubt they first went for Mackay. They wanted an experienced manager and made the right choice from those available.But once he fell out of the picture it then became a choice between Adams, who represented a gamble that might or might not work, and the uninspiring likes of Zola, with a record of failure, Or a gamble on an untried Lennon. Posters who are now comparing Adams'' record of failure, as it has turned out, with the record of vaguely competent managers are missing the point. That was not the choice at the time.Now, given we know Adams is not up to the job, the situation ought to be simple. And it would be where it not for the complicating factor of Phelan''s recent arrival. The board may fudge the issue by keeping the status quo and hoping better coaching will do the trick.What should happen is that Adams is moved out of the picture, Holt and Phelan are put in temporary charge, and an outside manager is targeted. Because now, unlike before, there are two obvious candidates available. One is Pulis. I doubt he would come,.although if you look at the Premier League there are not that many clubs where a managerial vacancy might arise. Possibly Sunderland. Perhaps Hull. And the other - possibly more feasible - candidate is Rosler. If he had been available in the summer he would have been my first choice, ahead of Mackay.Rosler is plainly better qualified than Adams, or than Phelan. We have three times in the last 20 years tried the gamble of appointing someone who has never been a manager. It didn''t work with Grant or Gunn and it hasn''t worked with Adams. So it should not be tried again with Phelan.[/quote]

Purple - you and i differ on Rosler but such is life. On everything else above i generally agree although I would quibble with a couple of points.

Firstly to suggest Lennon as an "untried" manager who represented the same sort of gamble as Adams is I think a little off the mark. This is a man with several years management under his belt and a record in top level European competition that was half decent. To any rational human being in my view he clearly was and is a far stronger candidate and less of a risk than Adams. His relative success since joining Bolton has not come as a particular surprise.

I also don;t really buy the notion that we had nobody else to choose from but Mackay, Zola or Adams. Our last two managerial appointments came from us going and recruiting the manager we wanted. As well as various options out of work at the time (I think Sherwood was as well and also Phelan) there must have been candidates who would have jumped at the chance to manage us in the championship with the resources we have at our disposal this season, just as i think there would be now. Any savvy manager looking at our situation would fancy their chances of securing some immediate glory!

All of which may be our best hope of attracting someone like Pulis. He''s clearly a clever man. He knew when to get out at Palace because he knew he would not be able to replicate his success again this season and wanted to keep his reputation high. IOt may be that he has his eyes on a prem job but it may also be that he looks at our squad and our league standing (which is perhaps not as bad as it feels because other have also been faltering meaning we are still within striking distance) and thinks he can further enhance his reputation by leading our recovery.

[norfolkchance1 0]

When Adams was appointed he was given a hopeless job of keeping us up as the decision was made far to late to get rid of Hughton. I thought it was a gamble to give him the full time job in the summer, but in the first ten games or so it looked quite decent. I always felt the acid test was how we reacted the first time results when wrong and they just haven''t improved enough for me. Middlesbrough away was a shocker but the amount of points we have lost at home is the most concerning thing for me.

Also its kind of ironic when we were in the premier league we got rid of Grant Holt to bring in RVW then get relegated and end up back in the same division as Holt.

[Branston Pickle 3,653]

Agree wth most of that, Purple, other than who we want to take over. I do shudder slightly at the thought of Pulis and would be more inclined towards Rosler of the two - he did well at the Bees but his record isn''t great at this level - but the thing is to have an open mind and give whoever a chance, something that many are patently unwilling/unable to do.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Sussex, for what it is worth, this is my view of how we got in this mess and what should be done about it.Firstly, it is not true that this board always or even usually goes for the cheap option. Smith and Jones''s record of spending real money on hiring managers from outside is vastly better than Chase''s. And that was the case here. I don''t think there is any doubt they first went for Mackay. They wanted an experienced manager and made the right choice from those available.But once he fell out of the picture it then became a choice between Adams, who represented a gamble that might or might not work, and the uninspiring likes of Zola, with a record of failure, Or a gamble on an untried Lennon. Posters who are now comparing Adams'' record of failure, as it has turned out, with the record of vaguely competent managers are missing the point. That was not the choice at the time.Now, given we know Adams is not up to the job, the situation ought to be simple. And it would be where it not for the complicating factor of Phelan''s recent arrival. The board may fudge the issue by keeping the status quo and hoping better coaching will do the trick.What should happen is that Adams is moved out of the picture, Holt and Phelan are put in temporary charge, and an outside manager is targeted. Because now, unlike before, there are two obvious candidates available. One is Pulis. I doubt he would come,.although if you look at the Premier League there are not that many clubs where a managerial vacancy might arise. Possibly Sunderland. Perhaps Hull. And the other - possibly more feasible - candidate is Rosler. If he had been available in the summer he would have been my first choice, ahead of Mackay.Rosler is plainly better qualified than Adams, or than Phelan. We have three times in the last 20 years tried the gamble of appointing someone who has never been a manager. It didn''t work with Grant or Gunn and it hasn''t worked with Adams. So it should not be tried again with Phelan.[/quote]

Purple - you and i differ on Rosler but such is life. On everything else above i generally agree although I would quibble with a couple of points.

Firstly to suggest Lennon as an "untried" manager who represented the same sort of gamble as Adams is I think a little off the mark. This is a man with several years management under his belt and a record in top level European competition that was half decent. To any rational human being in my view he clearly was and is a far stronger candidate and less of a risk than Adams. His relative success since joining Bolton has not come as a particular surprise.

I also don;t really buy the notion that we had nobody else to choose from but Mackay, Zola or Adams. Our last two managerial appointments came from us going and recruiting the manager we wanted. As well as various options out of work at the time (I think Sherwood was as well and also Phelan) there must have been candidates who would have jumped at the chance to manage us in the championship with the resources we have at our disposal this season, just as i think there would be now. Any savvy manager looking at our situation would fancy their chances of securing some immediate glory!

All of which may be our best hope of attracting someone like Pulis. He''s clearly a clever man. He knew when to get out at Palace because he knew he would not be able to replicate his success again this season and wanted to keep his reputation high. IOt may be that he has his eyes on a prem job but it may also be that he looks at our squad and our league standing (which is perhaps not as bad as it feels because other have also been faltering meaning we are still within striking distance) and thinks he can further enhance his reputation by leading our recovery.[/quote]Jim, you are right that we can disagree about this manager or that (and Sherwood is an interesting name I had forgotten). What I would stress is that there is a significant difference between then and now. Then there was a defensible argument for trying Adams, because the lack of an obviously better candidate whom we might feasibly attract. Now, even if one leaves out Sherwood, there are some such candidates.There have been far fewer mistakes during the Smith and Jones regime than some posters would have us believe, but now either to carry on with the status quo or gamble by promoting a coach who has never managed would be an error to add to that so far short list.

[The Great Drinkell 50]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="AJ"]What was the reaction from the players?[/quote]They just went straight down the tunnel.I''m not sure what else people expected them to do. I don''t think coming over to applaud the fans would have gone down well, in the middle of everyone chanting "What a load of rubbish"[/quote]

"Everyone" Morty? a lot of people I agree but not everyone.

I do agree to many to clapping the remainder.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Sussex, for what it is worth, this is my view of how we got in this mess and what should be done about it.Firstly, it is not true that this board always or even usually goes for the cheap option. Smith and Jones''s record of spending real money on hiring managers from outside is vastly better than Chase''s. And that was the case here. I don''t think there is any doubt they first went for Mackay. They wanted an experienced manager and made the right choice from those available.But once he fell out of the picture it then became a choice between Adams, who represented a gamble that might or might not work, and the uninspiring likes of Zola, with a record of failure, Or a gamble on an untried Lennon. Posters who are now comparing Adams'' record of failure, as it has turned out, with the record of vaguely competent managers are missing the point. That was not the choice at the time.Now, given we know Adams is not up to the job, the situation ought to be simple. And it would be where it not for the complicating factor of Phelan''s recent arrival. The board may fudge the issue by keeping the status quo and hoping better coaching will do the trick.What should happen is that Adams is moved out of the picture, Holt and Phelan are put in temporary charge, and an outside manager is targeted. Because now, unlike before, there are two obvious candidates available. One is Pulis. I doubt he would come,.although if you look at the Premier League there are not that many clubs where a managerial vacancy might arise. Possibly Sunderland. Perhaps Hull. And the other - possibly more feasible - candidate is Rosler. If he had been available in the summer he would have been my first choice, ahead of Mackay.Rosler is plainly better qualified than Adams, or than Phelan. We have three times in the last 20 years tried the gamble of appointing someone who has never been a manager. It didn''t work with Grant or Gunn and it hasn''t worked with Adams. So it should not be tried again with Phelan.[/quote]

Purple - you and i differ on Rosler but such is life. On everything else above i generally agree although I would quibble with a couple of points.

Firstly to suggest Lennon as an "untried" manager who represented the same sort of gamble as Adams is I think a little off the mark. This is a man with several years management under his belt and a record in top level European competition that was half decent. To any rational human being in my view he clearly was and is a far stronger candidate and less of a risk than Adams. His relative success since joining Bolton has not come as a particular surprise.

I also don;t really buy the notion that we had nobody else to choose from but Mackay, Zola or Adams. Our last two managerial appointments came from us going and recruiting the manager we wanted. As well as various options out of work at the time (I think Sherwood was as well and also Phelan) there must have been candidates who would have jumped at the chance to manage us in the championship with the resources we have at our disposal this season, just as i think there would be now. Any savvy manager looking at our situation would fancy their chances of securing some immediate glory!

All of which may be our best hope of attracting someone like Pulis. He''s clearly a clever man. He knew when to get out at Palace because he knew he would not be able to replicate his success again this season and wanted to keep his reputation high. IOt may be that he has his eyes on a prem job but it may also be that he looks at our squad and our league standing (which is perhaps not as bad as it feels because other have also been faltering meaning we are still within striking distance) and thinks he can further enhance his reputation by leading our recovery.[/quote]Jim, you are right that we can disagree about this manager or that (and Sherwood is an interesting name I had forgotten). What I would stress is that there is a significant difference between then and now. Then there was a defensible argument for trying Adams, because the lack of an obviously better candidate whom we might feasibly attract. Now, even if one leaves out Sherwood, there are some such candidates.There have been far fewer mistakes during the Smith and Jones regime than some posters would have us believe, but now either to carry on with the status quo or gamble by promoting a coach who has never managed would be an error to add to that so far short list.[/quote]

I think where we differ is that i just don;t think the decision to appoint Adams was defensible full stop. I think there were several options out there at the time and we took the most risky, worst one.

That said I agree that now there are perhaps 2 or 3 really obvious options so we are in agreement that failing to make a change will be very, very hard ti defend indeed. I still believe Lennon will prove to be the one who got away. Its a real pity he''s been snapped up. I''m no great fan of Sherwood from his time with us but he could be the sort of character we need and the level of performance of Spurs since he left suggests he was not actually doing too badly there.