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Mr Angry

Why are our players struggling to score?

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Seems to me that the main problem we''ve had during our poor run is scoring goals-we''ve had more possession in most games and created more chances than our opposition.

So why is this-are our players not good enough? Has Adams been choosing the wrong players for the games? Is the coaching not good enough? Are the players lacking in confidence? Is it a combination, or is there something else I''ve missed?

Whatever it is, do we think a new manager will be able to sort it out, and who would be the best, realistic choice?

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we struggle to score because we arent doing enough with the ball. Having possession of it is one thing, but not if you arent hurting the opponent.

Yes, the Reading keeper made an excellent point-blank save from Hooper in the last few minutes, and Murphy fired one over from close range, but other than that, for the whole of the second half we didnt do enough... Even into the 5 minutes of stoppage time we seemed to be playing the ball back to the halfway line to Turner to pass it out wide for Martin to cross it back in again.

We failed at nearly every second half corner yesterday to clear the Reading defender at the front post.

We really need to get back to the Lambert days of throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition. I just didnt see enough from our 11 out there yesterday. Perhaps Phelan will bring some ''Fergie-time'' mentality to the players.

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I''ve never felt scoring has been our problem, it''s our porous defence, time and time again out off 3 or 4 efforts we''ve let in a couple of goals.

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Scoring is not the main problem. We have lost more points by surrendering leads than we have by failing to score.Points lost when we''ve been winning - Bournemouth, Leeds, Forest, Brighton and Reading.That''s 12 points we have given away by failing to hold on to a lead.And with just 8 of those 12 points we would still be top of the league.Points lost by failing to score - Wolves - never looked like scoring & deserved what we got - nothing.Charlton - enough chances so we could have had 3 points but should have had at least 1 pointFulham - 0-0 when Grabban misses penalty, should have had 1 point, possibly 3.Sheff Weds - plenty of chances to take all 3 points.That''s between 5 & 9 points we have lost because we haven''t scored.Of course you could argue that we haven''t scored enough goals in specific games but as I said in another thread a couple of months ago, you only need to win 1-0 to get 3 points.

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Perhaps I should have explained my point more clearly-why are we scoring so few goals compared to the number of chances we are creating?

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That was also the question I was also asking, it struck me when I wrote my post that we were at that time creating plenty of chances but our convertion rate was pretty low, I don''t have figures for this but it was my perception.

Yes conceding goals is a massive problem but as Lambert used to say, you only need to score one more goal than the other team.

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We are having plenty of shots;   that is not the same as having created plenty of chances.  The vast majority against reading were from distance and not real chances,  which is why so few are actually on target.   Its make it look like a statistically attacking performance but we remain creatively low.

 

All this talk of playing the norwich way is a misnomer - our build up play lacks pace and intensity with far too many sideways or backwards safe passes,   too much stopping to see what the options are,   very little direct forward passing or running with the ball,  especially from the middle of the park,   too little movement from the front 7 to create space for a pass and finally very little desire to want the ball by making yourself available.    All of this allows the defending team to get themselves in position to defend  making our hopes of creating all the more difficult.

 

 

Inject some energy to our attacking play,  pass first time more often to get the ball adding pace (more important than foot speed) and we will create chances for goals that the optimistic shots for goal are not adding. 

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I agree ZLF, but have we got players who can play that way? And have we got a manager and/or coaches who want to play that way?

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Good question Mr A.

Players?

I think Grabban, Loza & Jerome (probably to a lesser extent Hooper) can all offer mobility up front and all have a good first touch - so I think the front line can.

 

The bigger question is in midfield - I do think that Wes and Redmond already offer this.    Howson has the potential but rarely does,   Tettey less so,   O''Neil can,  with only BJ being less able (not not able - there is a difference) but overall I think yes they have the ability.

 

In defence if you have a cm wanting the ball finding him becomes easier and less important - so overall I would say our players ,  in the champs,  can play to that style.

 

However that does not seem to be what they are encouraged to do which is a slow death by a thousand passes tiki taka;    Either thats what the coaches want or the players are not doings what is asked,  by either not passing quickly enough or not adding the movement.

 

I would say the problem is mainly with the coaching and players not seizing moments in the game due to fear or repurcussions (very hughton...)  

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---- ZippersLeftFoot: The bigger question is in midfield - I do think that Wes and Redmond already offer this.    Howson has the potential but rarely does,   Tettey less so,   O''Neil can,  with only BJ being less able (not not able - there is a difference) but overall I think yes they have the ability.

Ability to pace the ball quickly on receipt:

Wes - Yes, but nearly always looks for a good creative pass

Howson - No

BJ - No

Tettey - No

O''Neil - No Idea, hardly seen him play - although he has looked decent when picked.

Redmond - usually take the ball on himself rather than pass

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I am with ZLF. Our biggest issue is not attacking at pace and i believe we have the capabiity to do it. I have said on other threads that I am sure our possession stats look good, but if you are just passing backwards and sideways you are not going to hurt the opposition. If you look at the way Derby County play, it is very simple but effective, basically it boils down to pass and move. I also thank the formations we have recently played have not helped, again I agree with what ZLF has said on another thread in respect of us needing to revert back to five acros the middle with one up top rather than the strange 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 diamond. Another that i find frustrating is the reluctance to leave somebody like Redmond up front when we are defending corners, the Reading game is case in point in that we had 11 back in and around the box and still conceded, I noticed that Reading where not reluctant to leave themselves an outlet when they were defending corners......

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Hi Zipper,

Good discussion, one issue I have is that we rarely pass in to space with men running onto the ball, particularly so with our wingers. They may be able to show us all their amazing close control skills by beating umpteen defenders (some more than once), but so what, I would rather see them collecting the ball at pace using their skills, on the move if necessary, to beat the full back and get to the byline or in a position to cross quickly, by having the ball delivered to their feet they set off from a standing start, slowing the attack down and allowing the defence to get themselves more organised.

The question is; why don''t we do that, is it because they don''t have the ability (I think not), they insist on having it to their feet or the team are instructed to play this way (considering the Manager is a former winger I find this difficult to accept).

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Agree with the comments above;

Passing to feet is tough on accuracy and slows the game down;it has its place but not all of the time.Movement to create and allow the playing of balls into space or into stride of the player is exactly the type of attacking variety we are missing - one of my biggest bug bears is the when our cm pass to feet to attackers who have to stop to wait for the ball when there was space in front of the attacker to exploit - it does nothing but help the defence.

Its probably a bit of both - players are aware of success rate analysis and so try and pick a safer pass - with a relegation season behind them confidence had not fully recovered - but the preference from the manager is to get down the flanks so we miss the through ball opportunities, the strikers know its going down the flank so stop the movement (happened last year under hughton too - RvW movement early season was exceptional - but the ball was never attempted, let alone arrive) exacerbating our predictability

Players need to be encouraged to move and receive praise for it - there is a fear and safety in our play that needs removing

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