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McGrandles and Miquel.

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We spent £2.5m on these two and we''re yet to see them even kick a ball in the league. They happen to play centre back and left sided attacking mid, exactly where we are weak at the moment. Just speculating as to why neither have had a look in. It''s not like they are little boys, they have a handful of senior games under their belts from previous clubs. Could we have done more with that £2.5m and bought a proper ready to go centre back? It all seems a bit odd.

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Yep.  Fully agree it seems odd not to have seen them.   Relying on the regular players from last season just isn''t working and one or two of them need taking out of the firing line.    Was really looking forward to seeing what these two had to offer the first team.   Apparently not a lot........yet.   We''ve also got Jacob to come back who will have gained a lot of confidence, E. Bennett hopefully too.  Perhaps this season will shape up a bit with Phelan working behind the scenes.  But Miquel at least you would  expect to be competing for a first team place.

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My first impressions from seeing McGrandles play for the development side is that he''s not ready yet. Clearly a lot of talent there and showing some promise but not ready for first team action quite yet.

I''m not sure on Miquel though, after all those years at Arsenal surely he can''t be too far away?

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Miquel, the new Fox, Lucianoesque he must be brilliant cos he isn''t playing syndrome. Just because he came from Arsenal doesn''t mean he is good. If he was he would still be there.

Leicester didn''t think enough of him after his season loan to sign him up again. They didn''t even think him good enough to play for them last season on even a semi regular basis. All season he played 7 games. Add that to his previous 5 games that he has played for Arsenal and you have a player with pretty much no experience and many seem to think needs to be given a chance to rescue our season.

What I think we need is a Leon Barnett type defender. Athletic, quick and a beast in the air. He knows how to mark at set pieces, has the pace to track runners in the channel and loved to throw his body in the way. A proper championship defender.

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Don''t get me wrong he had his moments and wasn''t good enough to make the step up to the premiership. He was also prone to the odd error. He did have the pace to recover though. Something we lack when we get turned in defence. I thought he was a very good defender at this level. He was a big part of our promotion. He was certainly well regarded when he helped Cardiff up. Before he joined us I think he got promoted with Brom too.

I think he would add something to the defence we lack at the moment.

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[quote user="Barclay seats 48 49 the 3rd"]Dead Canary must have Alzheimer''s if that is his recollection of Leon Barnett , who on his day could be decent , so was Gary Docherty ![/quote]

Attention, attention.......would Lappinitup please report to this thread.

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[quote user="Barclay seats 48 49 the 3rd"]Dead Canary must have Alzheimer''s if that is his recollection of Leon Barnett , who on his day could be decent , so was Gary Docherty ![/quote]You''ve gorn and done it again.......You know I still miss him. [:''(] [:''(] [:''(]

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Thing is, it''s not the signing of the two guys in the title that bothers me. It''s that we''ve signed them when there are clear areas of the pitch we are lacking quality. Namely a natural left midfielder and a physically mobile centre back.

As for Barnett, I was actually surprised we got rid when we did. He was terrible at distributing but an absolute monster in the air and pretty quick. Bassong basically turned out to be an upgrade of him I guess, but I think Barnett would have stuck around as backup/ competition to play with or alongside Bassong.

Now we have neither and we simply haven''t replaced Bassong. Again, I had no problems getting rid of him but we''ve not replaced him. That Ciani sounds like he was exactly what we needed but we''ve not managed to buy him.

It''s become apparent yet again that whilst we bought pretty well over summer, we''ve failed to fill in some vital areas. Last year it was up front/ attacking mid, this year it''s left mid and centre back. Simply put, Surman/ Pilkington and Bassong should not have been allowed to leave until a suitable replacement was found.

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When things are not going well & managers are under pressure they look to the players who they trust and who they think will get the desired turn round in form. This invariably means relying on the old guard to save your bacon.They see it as too much of a risk to blood new players into the first team when on a bad run because if that goes pear shaped too then they come under even more pressure as it gives people yet another stick to beat them with.I think it''s called the "if you''re in a hole stop digging" mentality

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[quote user="Making Plans"]When things are not going well & managers are under pressure they look to the players who they trust and who they think will get the desired turn round in form. This invariably means relying on the old guard to save your bacon.They see it as too much of a risk to blood new players into the first team when on a bad run because if that goes pear shaped too then they come under even more pressure as it gives people yet another stick to beat them with.I think it''s called the "if you''re in a hole stop digging" mentality[/quote]

I think that is a fair point.   But bravery is what is needed - new or experienced, pressure or no pressure.    Has Adams listened to his players?  Has he been advised by Holt and Robson to stick with older players?  Has his mentor Royle said the same to him?   Has McNally had an input?   

It patently isn''t working and you have to ask if he is strong enough to go his own way or is he being influenced by too many people?  I would hope that any manager would be bl**dy minded enough to say, right, I''m doing it my way and not be too easily led.  I believe Hughton compromised his style last season and instead of sticking to his guns, tried to be more attacking than his instincts and methods allowed - and not only did we start letting more goals in as a result, we still didn''t score goals.   Lambert of course, was a strong character and would have resisted anyone else - maybe why he left......

We need a strong single minded manager who knows his own mind and wouldn''t be influenced by fans, McNally, or anyone else.   A McCarthy type figure who would come in and say, "Right we''re doing it my way - you can forget all that "Norwich way" cr*p - and if you don''t like the way I do it, tough."   And if that was successful he would be a hero.   Right now all we have is weakness every where - in players being off colour, a manager who is a rookie, a board who appear not to be able to make the right decisions and fans who are p**d  off. 

We need leadership, but Adams isn''t showing it, Martin isn''t showing it - his casual comments after the Brighton match were a disgrace imo - "Yeah, perhaps being a little more defensive is something we should have a chat about"............hello??    If Adams is trusting his older established players he is wrong.  It was the same established players that failed last season.   He needs to be braver, put his new players in that he bought and get everyone competing for a place.   Jacob Murphy should have been given a chance too, instead of being farmed out.  He is obviously ready - as imo is Josh - they  should have been given more chances.  If the defence and midfield were set up right, they could have more freedom up front to learn their craft.   Instead we have too many marauding forwards........

Adams can put it right, but he has to be strong.   Strong enough to know his own mind and not be influenced by anyone else.  If he is going to rely on his trusted players - they had better sort themselves out - and quick.

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lake district canary wrote the following post at 03/12/2014 5:40 PM:

Making Plans wrote:

When things are not going well & managers are under pressure they look to the players who they trust and who they think will get the desired turn round in form. This invariably means relying on the old guard to save your bacon.

They see it as too much of a risk to blood new players into the first team when on a bad run because if that goes pear shaped too then they come under even more pressure as it gives people yet another stick to beat them with.

I think it''s called the "if you''re in a hole stop digging" mentality

I think that is a fair point. But bravery is what is needed - new or experienced, pressure or no pressure. Has Adams listened to his players? Has he been advised by Holt and Robson to stick with older players? Has his mentor Royle said the same to him? Has McNally had an input?

It patently isn''t working and you have to ask if he is strong enough to go his own way or is he being influenced by too many people? I would hope that any manager would be bl**dy minded enough to say, right, I''m doing it my way and not be too easily led. I believe Hughton compromised his style last season and instead of sticking to his guns, tried to be more attacking than his instincts and methods allowed - and not only did we start letting more goals in as a result, we still didn''t score goals. Lambert of course, was a strong character and would have resisted anyone else - maybe why he left......

We need a strong single minded manager who knows his own mind and wouldn''t be influenced by fans, McNally, or anyone else. A McCarthy type figure who would come in and say, "Right we''re doing it my way - you can forget all that "Norwich way" cr*p - and if you don''t like the way I do it, tough." And if that was successful he would be a hero. Right now all we have is weakness every where - in players being off colour, a manager who is a rookie, a board who appear not to be able to make the right decisions and fans who are p**d off.

We need leadership, but Adams isn''t showing it, Martin isn''t showing it - his casual comments after the Brighton match were a disgrace imo - "Yeah, perhaps being a little more defensive is something we should have a chat about"............hello?? If Adams is trusting his older established players he is wrong. It was the same established players that failed last season. He needs to be braver, put his new players in that he bought and get everyone competing for a place. Jacob Murphy should have been given a chance too, instead of being farmed out. He is obviously ready - as imo is Josh - they should have been given more chances. If the defence and midfield were set up right, they could have more freedom up front to learn their craft. Instead we have too many marauding forwards........

Adams can put it right, but he has to be strong. Strong enough to know his own mind and not be influenced by anyone else. If he is going to rely on his trusted players - they had better sort themselves out - and quick.

Is there a cure for verbal Diarrhoea ?

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]We spent £2.5m on these two and we''re yet to see them even kick a ball in the league. They happen to play centre back and left sided attacking mid, exactly where we are weak at the moment. Just speculating as to why neither have had a look in. It''s not like they are little boys, they have a handful of senior games under their belts from previous clubs. Could we have done more with that £2.5m and bought a proper ready to go centre back? It all seems a bit odd

We have in effect in a crucial year decided to spend more than we ever done on potential in these two plus Thompson. Does it smack slightly of arrogance, yes we are definately going up to we can think not just of the present but the future as well? We have now got a bloated squad so much so that some of our prospects are struggling for games at any level and so I would argue that a Club in our position should prioritise this season 1st, 2nd and 3rd in getting back to the big revenue stream asap

Its all a bit Football Manager for me ie in developing players who you know will have massive potential as your super scouts have told you they will be worth millions. The trouble is Football is very hit and miss and who knows what is round the corner. Perhaps that it is being hyper critical, what isn''t is the crazy business of getting 3 centre halves in and then not fancying any of them while letting the best one go to Watford.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Making Plans"]When things are not going well & managers are under pressure they look to the players who they trust and who they think will get the desired turn round in form. This invariably means relying on the old guard to save your bacon.They see it as too much of a risk to blood new players into the first team when on a bad run because if that goes pear shaped too then they come under even more pressure as it gives people yet another stick to beat them with.I think it''s called the "if you''re in a hole stop digging" mentality[/quote]

I think that is a fair point.   But bravery is what is needed - new or experienced, pressure or no pressure.    Has Adams listened to his players?  Has he been advised by Holt and Robson to stick with older players?  Has his mentor Royle said the same to him?   Has McNally had an input?   

It patently isn''t working and you have to ask if he is strong enough to go his own way or is he being influenced by too many people?  I would hope that any manager would be bl**dy minded enough to say, right, I''m doing it my way and not be too easily led.  I believe Hughton compromised his style last season and instead of sticking to his guns, tried to be more attacking than his instincts and methods allowed - and not only did we start letting more goals in as a result, we still didn''t score goals.   Lambert of course, was a strong character and would have resisted anyone else - maybe why he left......We need a strong single minded manager who knows his own mind and wouldn''t be influenced by fans, McNally, or anyone else.   A McCarthy type figure who would come in and say, "Right we''re doing it my way - you can forget all that "Norwich way" cr*p - and if you don''t like the way I do it, tough."   And if that was successful he would be a hero.   Right now all we have is weakness every where - in players being off colour, a manager who is a rookie, a board who appear not to be able to make the right decisions and fans who are p**d  off. 

We need leadership, but Adams isn''t showing it, Martin isn''t showing it - his casual comments after the Brighton match were a disgrace imo - "Yeah, perhaps being a little more defensive is something we should have a chat about"............hello??    If Adams is trusting his older established players he is wrong.  It was the same established players that failed last season.   He needs to be braver, put his new players in that he bought and get everyone competing for a place.   Jacob Murphy should have been given a chance too, instead of being farmed out.  He is obviously ready - as imo is Josh - they  should have been given more chances.  If the defence and midfield were set up right, they could have more freedom up front to learn their craft.   Instead we have too many marauding forwards........

Adams can put it right, but he has to be strong.   Strong enough to know his own mind and not be influenced by anyone else.  If he is going to rely on his trusted players - they had better sort themselves out - and quick.

[/quote]Really? Howcome Lamberts Villa team are statistically the most negative team in the Premier league and statistically worse than what we were this time last season under Hughton?

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