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Tim Dawson

Realistically he has got two games to turn this around

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As i see it i would give Adams two games more to turn this mess around which is far more than he deserves, this would mean should we lose to Huddersfield at home and were he to be dismissed afterwards it would give McNally 17 days before the transfer window to either get Pulis or Robinson in and give them a fair crack at the job and upcoming window.

I think anything less than 4 points from those two games and he has to go, whether either Pulis or Robinson could work with Phelan remains to be seen but i am sure all us Norwich fans are united in that this mess cannot continue for much longer, certainly not helped by McCarthy and his collection of freebies and rejects possibly topping the division at 4.55p.m. on saturday - Unthinkable !!!!!

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I really don''t care about Ipswich even a little bit. They''re a hard working team which can get you somewhere in this league but they just haven''t got enough quality of squad depth to maintain a push for the auto''s. They could sneak the play offs but I wouldn''t be fussed either way. They''re just another boring mid sized FL club that plays in blue....I was more annoyed about cheating QPR and sugar daddy Leicester getting promoted last year than I would be about Ipswich going up.

I agree about the two games though. The absolute minimum I expect from the next two matches is 4 points otherwise bye bye Neil!

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Not sure he has got just two games - its quite easy to see that he will get to the new year.

 

However if McCarthy is doing so well why wouldnt we try and poach him instead - not seen him amongst the list of candidates... 

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After last  season, I really don''t see the board having the strength to act unless they are forced to.   Twice last season, there were clear chances to say enough is enough.   I supported them and put it down to strength of mind that they resisted and that they would see it through with the manager to the end of the season, but they failed to see it through, buckling under the pressure to change the manager, even though there was nothing better in place except the slight possibility of a bounce effect.  

This season, two poor games would be hard to accept against Wigan and Huddersfield and if it gets to the stage where the crowd really turn - will they act then?  Maybe they will think they have to, but again it will be a sign of weakness imo if they do.   A strong course of action would be to stay with the manager regardless of what fans think.  Or another strong course would have been to sack the manager at the earliest opportunity like during the international break.   The weak action is to do nothing or get panicked into action. 

The obvious thing that could happen if the next two games don''t show improvement is for Phelan to take over, but it would probably be Adams stepping down rather than him being sacked.   The board haven''t shown the strength in the past to act at the right time before.  They were lucky with Gunn - he made it impossible with that 1-7 performance - and maybe they were lucky that it was Lambert who was the manager that day - a gift horse. 

I hope Phelan can get us on the right track and has had some effect this week, because we need it.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]After last  season, I really don''t see the board having the strength to act unless they are forced to.   Twice last season, there were clear chances to say enough is enough.   I supported them and put it down to strength of mind that they resisted and that they would see it through with the manager to the end of the season, but they failed to see it through, buckling under the pressure to change the manager, even though there was nothing better in place except the slight possibility of a bounce effect.  

This season, two poor games would be hard to accept against Wigan and Huddersfield and if it gets to the stage where the crowd really turn - will they act then?  Maybe they will think they have to, but again it will be a sign of weakness imo if they do.   A strong course of action would be to stay with the manager regardless of what fans think.  Or another strong course would have been to sack the manager at the earliest opportunity like during the international break.   The weak action is to do nothing or get panicked into action. 

The obvious thing that could happen if the next two games don''t show improvement is for Phelan to take over, but it would probably be Adams stepping down rather than him being sacked.   The board haven''t shown the strength in the past to act at the right time before.  They were lucky with Gunn - he made it impossible with that 1-7 performance - and maybe they were lucky that it was Lambert who was the manager that day - a gift horse. 

I hope Phelan can get us on the right track and has had some effect this week, because we need it.

[/quote]Which two specific times and who was the available more than adequate replacement?

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If you thought the reaction to Reading defeat was a voiceferous denunciation of Adams appointment and Board inertia. Be ready for more of the same and even greater condemnation in increased numbers unless results improve. Remember WBA last season when the Board finally took action they will do so again because they are morally cowards.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]After last  season, I really don''t see the board having the strength to act unless they are forced to.   Twice last season, there were clear chances to say enough is enough.   I supported them and put it down to strength of mind that they resisted and that they would see it through with the manager to the end of the season, but they failed to see it through, buckling under the pressure to change the manager, even though there was nothing better in place except the slight possibility of a bounce effect.   This season, two poor games would be hard to accept against Wigan and Huddersfield and if it gets to the stage where the crowd really turn - will they act then?  Maybe they will think they have to, but again it will be a sign of weakness imo if they do.   A strong course of action would be to stay with the manager regardless of what fans think.  Or another strong course would have been to sack the manager at the earliest opportunity like during the international break.   The weak action is to do nothing or get panicked into action.  The obvious thing that could happen if the next two games don''t show improvement is for Phelan to take over, but it would probably be Adams stepping down rather than him being sacked.   The board haven''t shown the strength in the past to act at the right time before.  They were lucky with Gunn - he made it impossible with that 1-7 performance - and maybe they were lucky that it was Lambert who was the manager that day - a gift horse.  I hope Phelan can get us on the right track and has had some effect this week, because we need it.[/quote]Which two specific times and who was the available more than adequate replacement?[/quote]

I don''t think anyone would have complained if he had gone after the 4-0, 7-0 Manchester week, regardless of who was brought in.  The other clear occasion was after the Fulham game, right at the start of the January transfer window, again, regardless of who was brought in.  Any other time was pointess, including five games from the end, which only led to a relief from Hughtonism, not relief from the pressure of the premiership. 

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LDC - no way Adams will step down. He won;t have been able to believe his luck at being handed (completely undeservedly) this fantastic job and he will cling onto it for as long as he can. The ruthless treatment of his right hand man Robson already shows you that. He was sacrificed by Adams to save his own skin.

If he''s going to go then they are going to have to sack him.

My question though - would 4 points against Wigan and Huddersfield actually prove anything in terms of whether he;s good enough. What if we then go and lose to Derby and draw at home with Millwall on Boxing Day. Does a manager who 80% of fans think should be sacked because he''s not good enough suddenly become good enough because he (with the benefit of a better squad of players) gets a win and a draw against two teams you feel we should be winning or drawing against?

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[quote user="Tim Dawson"] get Pulis or Robinson  [/quote]

he should have been sacked a week agobut if you think anyone other than mike phelan is getting the managers job youre living in cuckoo landthe club is taking a 50 million hit, its not about to pay off a manager, and the newly appointed coaching staff, and still have much to play with in the transfer windowthe club needs to have money to spend to a. attract a new manager (no one wants to go to a club that cant afford to bring in players) and b. to actually pay him a sufficient enough wage to make him want to come here in the first place, and c. quite possibly buy this person out of any contract they might already be in.

as far as im concerned we go with phelan, give him his shot, he cant do any worse the neil and hes most likely able to pull some strings due to all of the years spent at one of the biggest 5 clubs in the world, players will know who he is and want to play for himadams doesnt have that, which is why bassong wanted out (not that im bothered about him leaving either...)

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[quote user="iron_stan"][quote user="Tim Dawson"] get Pulis or Robinson  [/quote]

he should have been sacked a week agobut if you think anyone other than mike phelan is getting the managers job youre living in cuckoo landthe club is taking a 50 million hit, its not about to pay off a manager, and the newly appointed coaching staff, and still have much to play with in the transfer windowthe club needs to have money to spend to a. attract a new manager (no one wants to go to a club that cant afford to bring in players) and b. to actually pay him a sufficient enough wage to make him want to come here in the first place, and c. quite possibly buy this person out of any contract they might already be in.

as far as im concerned we go with phelan, give him his shot, he cant do any worse the neil and hes most likely able to pull some strings due to all of the years spent at one of the biggest 5 clubs in the world, players will know who he is and want to play for himadams doesnt have that, which is why bassong wanted out (not that im bothered about him leaving either...)[/quote]

#

This I agree with entirely. If he goes it will be Phelan and whilst he''s not ideal at least he has experience, should have some tactical nous and will be respected by the players for his past achievements.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]After last  season, I really don''t see the board having the strength to act unless they are forced to.   Twice last season, there were clear chances to say enough is enough.   I supported them and put it down to strength of mind that they resisted and that they would see it through with the manager to the end of the season, but they failed to see it through, buckling under the pressure to change the manager, even though there was nothing better in place except the slight possibility of a bounce effect.   This season, two poor games would be hard to accept against Wigan and Huddersfield and if it gets to the stage where the crowd really turn - will they act then?  Maybe they will think they have to, but again it will be a sign of weakness imo if they do.   A strong course of action would be to stay with the manager regardless of what fans think.  Or another strong course would have been to sack the manager at the earliest opportunity like during the international break.   The weak action is to do nothing or get panicked into action.  The obvious thing that could happen if the next two games don''t show improvement is for Phelan to take over, but it would probably be Adams stepping down rather than him being sacked.   The board haven''t shown the strength in the past to act at the right time before.  They were lucky with Gunn - he made it impossible with that 1-7 performance - and maybe they were lucky that it was Lambert who was the manager that day - a gift horse.  I hope Phelan can get us on the right track and has had some effect this week, because we need it.[/quote]Which two specific times and who was the available more than adequate replacement?[/quote]

I don''t think anyone would have complained if he had gone after the 4-0, 7-0 Manchester week, regardless of who was brought in.  The other clear occasion was after the Fulham game, right at the start of the January transfer window, again, regardless of who was brought in.  Any other time was pointess, including five games from the end, which only led to a relief from Hughtonism, not relief from the pressure of the premiership. 

[/quote]Except that Man City defeat, though sizeable was hardly a surprise, and was followed by our best spell of the whole season, in which we won three, drew two and lost only at Newcastle and Liverpool. And the Fulham defeat came immediately afterwards. You cannot seriously suggest  the board would have been right to sack Hughton at that point. I cannot be bothered to explain why "regardless of who was brought in" destroys any credibility you might have otherwise had.

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[quote user="pete"]If you thought the reaction to Reading defeat was a voiceferous denunciation of Adams appointment and Board inertia. Be ready for more of the same and even greater condemnation in increased numbers unless results improve. Remember WBA last season when the Board finally took action they will do so again because they are morally cowards.[/quote]How are they morally cowards?Just appointing Adams took balls knowing the reaction they''d get.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]After last  season, I really don''t see the board having the strength to act unless they are forced to.   Twice last season, there were clear chances to say enough is enough.   I supported them and put it down to strength of mind that they resisted and that they would see it through with the manager to the end of the season, but they failed to see it through, buckling under the pressure to change the manager, even though there was nothing better in place except the slight possibility of a bounce effect.   This season, two poor games would be hard to accept against Wigan and Huddersfield and if it gets to the stage where the crowd really turn - will they act then?  Maybe they will think they have to, but again it will be a sign of weakness imo if they do.   A strong course of action would be to stay with the manager regardless of what fans think.  Or another strong course would have been to sack the manager at the earliest opportunity like during the international break.   The weak action is to do nothing or get panicked into action.  The obvious thing that could happen if the next two games don''t show improvement is for Phelan to take over, but it would probably be Adams stepping down rather than him being sacked.   The board haven''t shown the strength in the past to act at the right time before.  They were lucky with Gunn - he made it impossible with that 1-7 performance - and maybe they were lucky that it was Lambert who was the manager that day - a gift horse.  I hope Phelan can get us on the right track and has had some effect this week, because we need it.[/quote]Which two specific times and who was the available more than adequate replacement?[/quote]I don''t think anyone would have complained if he had gone after the 4-0, 7-0 Manchester week, regardless of who was brought in.  The other clear occasion was after the Fulham game, right at the start of the January transfer window, again, regardless of who was brought in.  Any other time was pointess, including five games from the end, which only led to a relief from Hughtonism, not relief from the pressure of the premiership.  [/quote]Except that Man City defeat, though sizeable was hardly a surprise, and was followed by our best spell of the whole season, in which we won three, drew two and lost only at Newcastle and Liverpool. And the Fulham defeat came immediately afterwards. You cannot seriously suggest  the board would have been right to sack Hughton at that point. I cannot be bothered to explain why "regardless of who was brought in" destroys any credibility you might have otherwise had.[/quote]

My credibility has little to do with it. On your final sentence, the point is, that when they did finally sack him they didn''t have a credible candidate. So if there were no credibe candidates in November or January, why sack him when they did?   I can follow their train of thought in everything they have done over the last few years and seen some merit in it, but the board''s behaviour in putting in Adams - and yes I could see some merit in the idea as long as it worked - is this season compounding something that I never thought I would say - that they are not really in tune with what is needed.  Even Hughton''s appt - who I supported - I can see was a mistake because it must have been clear to them he was going to change the whole ethos of the way we play football.   

I supported Gunn and desperately wanted him to succeed and thought he would.  I supported Hughton and desperately wanted him to succeed - and thought he would.   The nonsense of it is that with this latest debacle, I can see right through my own sentimentalism in wanting Adams to succeed - and at the outset thinking he would.  Its all very well me and other fans being sentimental,  but the board has to be above sentimentality.   Unfortunately, history is making even me see something in what many others have been saying - that the board may be doing its best, but is not leading the way.  I wouldn''t like to be in their shoes with thousands of fans ready to show anger and disapproval at the slightest setback - although the opposite must be true when things are going well - but would it be too much to ask for a manager with a bit of gumption?   McCarthy, Warnock, Pulis, Neil Lennon even.   There are managers out there that have that. Lambert proved a point.  We won''t get another Lambert era in a hurry, but in the unavailability of those I mention, trying another up and coming combative type  manager would not be a bad idea....surely? 

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Nope not balls Herman just total stupidity and ignorance

It might pay off if we get 4 points form next two games and progress from there. Here''s hoping but very much doubt it

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