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Rudolph Hucker

Phelan the Effects

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I see Phelan was much more visible this week.

His guidance was all over this result.

Play a side to keep it tight - never mind entertaining the Wigan crowd.

Do NOT lose.

Do NOT give anything away.

Hope for a break and a goal and hold onto it.

Back to basics and stop the rot.

Three points buys a lot of extra time for the new management team.

A clean sheet begins to build confidence in the defence.

Job done and it wasn''t pretty. We didn''t play much football and we made damn sure Wigan played even less.

Subs were position for position, kept the shape and discipline,

This will calm things down.

But next week it''s different; it''s at home and the onus is on us to win.

If we accept today is a step in the right direction the home supporters next week need to do their bit and give the management and players some benefit of the doubt at least.

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Completely agree with all of that. We were smart for once today and the team did exactly what it was meant to do away from home.

We need to be pragmatic at times in this league and these players just can''t play Swansea style football which in my opinion has never been the Norwich way anyway. We''ve usually been a fast direct attacking exciting side at our best, we were never renowned for a slow sophisticated passing game!

From now on in, keep things simple, a little less emphasis on gung ho attack and we need a at least 5 new players in January. Pick the some of the best talent from league 1 or the best we can attract in the Championship and lets freshen this squad up and give it some drive

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[quote user="Darth Catbeard"]Completely agree with all of that. We were smart for once today and the team did exactly what it was meant to do away from home.

We need to be pragmatic at times in this league and these players just can''t play Swansea style football which in my opinion has never been the Norwich way anyway. We''ve usually been a fast direct attacking exciting side at our best, we were never renowned for a slow sophisticated passing game!

From now on in, keep things simple, a little less emphasis on gung ho attack and we need a at least 5 new players in January. Pick the some of the best talent from league 1 or the best we can attract in the Championship and lets freshen this squad up and give it some drive[/quote]I would say there is no chance of that happening. Not if you mean five new members of the first-team squad. It would require an unprecedented off-loading in January

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There is nothing wrong with this squad, a bit of confidence and more realistic approach to our tactics and we could still have a good season.

A replacement for Pilks would be nice in January

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Darth Catbeard"]Completely agree with all of that. We were smart for once today and the team did exactly what it was meant to do away from home.

We need to be pragmatic at times in this league and these players just can''t play Swansea style football which in my opinion has never been the Norwich way anyway. We''ve usually been a fast direct attacking exciting side at our best, we were never renowned for a slow sophisticated passing game!

From now on in, keep things simple, a little less emphasis on gung ho attack and we need a at least 5 new players in January. Pick the some of the best talent from league 1 or the best we can attract in the Championship and lets freshen this squad up and give it some drive[/quote]I would say there is no chance of that happening. Not if you mean five new members of the first-team squad. It would require an unprecedented off-loading in January[/quote]

Sorry I should have been clearer. I do think we badly need some new blood and a fresh perspective in the squad but I wouldn''t expect 5 regular starters, it would be nice, but I doubt we''ll be able to sign anyone good enough to just walk into the team.

A couple of quality young players from a top club (See how much Derby have benefited from this approach!) and a few more young, exciting players who are on the up and lighting up the league below would be ideal

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D.C- Attract in the Championship and lets freshen this squad up and give it some drive ".

I totally agree, we need some fresh, hungry players to come in. No hull reserve players from the prem

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Fresh new hungry players?........we have half of a very decent squad who have hardly played yet or not been played at all, plus additions coming back from injury.

Its about, knowledge of required tactics, using the players correctly and motivating them to play........

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]I see Phelan was much more visible this week.

His guidance was all over this result.

Play a side to keep it tight - never mind entertaining the Wigan crowd.

Do NOT lose.

Do NOT give anything away.

Hope for a break and a goal and hold onto it.

Back to basics and stop the rot.

Three points buys a lot of extra time for the new management team.

A clean sheet begins to build confidence in the defence.

Job done and it wasn''t pretty. We didn''t play much football and we made damn sure Wigan played even less.

Subs were position for position, kept the shape and discipline,

This will calm things down.

But next week it''s different; it''s at home and the onus is on us to win.

If we accept today is a step in the right direction the home supporters next week need to do their bit and give the management and players some benefit of the doubt at least.[/quote]

Yeah, Man Utd were always a team with no wide players, always kept it tight, always went for a one nil and stuck to the basics. [:O]

But you do have a point - I was talking to a real ManU supporter (as opposed to a glory hunter) and he was saying Phelan was superb with the players and just got on quietly with his job, ensuring they had good habits on the pitch and always always worked well as a team. 

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]I think the only signing we need in January is a proper left winger. Two wingers if Redmond gets sold.[/quote]

But we have two fabulous wingers in the making in Josh and Jacob.   Both will imo be given their chance to establish themselves as regulars with Phelan''s influence and we should still have Redmond the rest of this season too. 
Quote from Blackpool match report yesterday - "And it was all Blackpool around the hour

mark, as Murphy''s outrageous lob from all of 40 yards was tipped over by

Randolph. The winger was looking a real  threat, and tested the stopper

again on 79 minutes"
Get him back......

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LDC,

I would be surprised if the formula yesterday became the norm although we might see a more defensive line up away from home. Personally, I''d like us to play a 4-5-1 away from home.

It was definitely a set up to do a job yesterday.

Remember the Lambert game at Doncaster where he went too gung-ho and learned from it? That''s what we had been doing.

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]I see Phelan was much more visible this week.

His guidance was all over this result.

Play a side to keep it tight - never mind entertaining the Wigan crowd.

Do NOT lose.

Do NOT give anything away.

Hope for a break and a goal and hold onto it.

Back to basics and stop the rot.

Three points buys a lot of extra time for the new management team.

A clean sheet begins to build confidence in the defence.

Job done and it wasn''t pretty. We didn''t play much football and we made damn sure Wigan played even less.

Subs were position for position, kept the shape and discipline,

This will calm things down.

But next week it''s different; it''s at home and the onus is on us to win.

If we accept today is a step in the right direction the home supporters next week need to do their bit and give the management and players some benefit of the doubt at least.[/quote]I didn''t see the game but I assumed that Murphy on for Hooper after 64 minutes was a switch from two upfront to only one upfront, aimed at a more solid formation in midfield but also one that offered pace and some width on the break, and as such made sense to me.I ask because for me the question has never been entirely whether Phelan''s coaching is helping, but whether team selection/formation and game management are going to improve. Ultimtely, unless we are moving surreptitiously to a kind of dual management, it is still Adams who will be making those crucial decisons, even if the advice he is getting is better than before.

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But will we ever know who does what? And does it matter? When Dave Stringer and Dave Williams produced their wonderful team did we know who did what? Dave Stringer got full credit for being manager and Dave Williams full credit for coaching. In reality they were a team.

We want this team of Adams, Holt and Phelan to be succesful. If they are then it could be the start of a great dynasty for the future. Rather than the tear it up and start again wwe''ve had after Lambert and Hughton.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]But will we ever know who does what? And does it matter? When Dave Stringer and Dave Williams produced their wonderful team did we know who did what? Dave Stringer got full credit for being manager and Dave Williams full credit for coaching. In reality they were a team.

We want this team of Adams, Holt and Phelan to be succesful. If they are then it could be the start of a great dynasty for the future. Rather than the tear it up and start again wwe''ve had after Lambert and Hughton.[/quote]Nutty, it doesn''t matter at all how much or how little we know about what goes on behind the scenes. That is not quite my point, which was that until the arrival of Phelan there were some serious questions about team selection/formation and game management. For example, that was I think our fourth central defensive partnership in five games, and not because we were forced by injuries to make changes there. It was a management decision. I don''t care who is responsible for improvements in those crucial decision-making areas. But there do need to be improvemsnts.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Fresh new hungry players?........we have half of a very decent squad who have hardly played yet or not been played at all, plus additions coming back from injury.

Its about, knowledge of required tactics, using the players correctly and motivating them to play........[/quote]If our players need motivating to play then they shouldn''t be at the club. These are grown men, not children.

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Purple, I deliberately said ''position for position'' rather than ''like for like'' as clearly Murphy is a different player to Hooper but he can carry the ball from deeper. It was a good sub as the game got more stretched.

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There could have been a lot of changes after the Reading game. If there were restrictions put on the manager by the board through demands made over ST renewals they could have been lifted.

 

Good point re the Subs. They probably weren''t popular but they worked. However we went into the game differently. For all the "Wigan are poor" mantra they are extremely difficult to beat at home. There pitch is difficult for sides who want to play how the fans wanted us to play. Forest couldn''t win there. Boro couldn''t win there. In fact the only other side to win there were the binners. So as I said last night, maybe Adams joined those dots.

 

 

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Purple, I deliberately said ''position for position'' rather than ''like for like'' as clearly Murphy is a different player to Hooper but he can carry the ball from deeper. It was a good sub as the game got more stretched.[/quote]Rudolph, I don''t want to start an argument but that is rather playing with words. Murphy is a very different kind of player to Hooper and if he is going, as you say, to carry the ball from deeper - and probably from wider - then it is hardly a straight position for position swap. Unless, that is, Murphy actually played not as normal but as a Hooper clone.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Channeling? No idea buddy. I used to be responsible for channel blocks if that''s any help....

 

 

[/quote]

I hear you were demoted to the urinals as you could not detect your toilet roll thief. [;)]

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Well, he didn''t take off a defender or one of those four central midfielders did he?

Are you channeling Nutty (I don''t know what you mean) Nigel?[/quote]Oh dear, Rudolph. This has the makings of one of those innocent posts (ie mine) that prompts a saga comprehensible only to the two people involved, and quite possibly not even to them.As someone who didn''t watch the game I was simply trying to establish whether a substitution (Murphy for Hooper in the 64th minute) was what it looked like - not just a change of personnel but also a switch in formation from two up front with no natural wide players to only one genuine striker and Murphy either playing as an out and out winger or possibly more as a wing-striker. But not as a straightforward replacement for Hooper.I asked particularly because a major complaint againt Adams has been his seeming lack of tactical awareness and inability to make formational changes during a game. This looked as if perhaps things were altering for the better.That being so, I really don''t understand the relevance of your rhetorical question about defenders or central midfielder or the reference to nutty. Perhaps someone else who watched the game could provide an answer. Was the subsitition of Murphy for Hooper entirely position for position - ie Murphy played in the same position as Hooper - or was it a tactical change with Murphy playing at least in part a different role to Hooper?

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Purple it sounds/looks as though he may have learnt a little from the Forest game based on the substitution to introduce Murphy at around the time we should have made a similar substitution at the City Ground. Not quite sure why Murphy seems to have temporarily moved about Redmond in the pecking order though, The latter;''s absence of involvement in this game makes me a little concerned about what might happen in january.

I think Saturday''s game showed progress of sorts, mainly fact that the work rate was good and we seemed to have for once cut out the silly mistakes. However before we get tool carried away I think we all need to see the team selections for the next two matches and how they pan put. That was not a team selection Tailored for Wigan. Adams put out the same team at Forest and (essentially) at Shef Wednesday as well so its clearly something he''s had in mind for certain away games this season. Whilst it may give us a certain "solidity" I still maintain it was not a good team selection and I very much hope we don;t see it again too often this season because it gives the opposition very little to worry about and against better sides (such as Derby in 2 weeks time - I fear however we will see the same line-up after this weekends result) they will punish us. Even Forest (who are not very good) worked that out as the game went on at the City Ground and pushed us back. had Adams made some sensible subs we could have countered that but on that occasion he didn''t.

It was also interesting to see Mackay talking about how they put approx 20 balls across our area during the course of the game. Wigan had nothing up front so did not get on the end of any but a better team will. What that, for me, shows is that for all its "solidity" this line up still leaves us a little exposed down the flanks which is perhaps unsurprising given we have 4 central midfielders playing and no wide attacking outlets meaning their full backs had little genuine pace to worry about. It is also perhaps not surprising given our full backs have been unconvincing defensively this season. All of which means i hope that once Ryan Bennett is back we see Martin restored to right back in place of Whitaker and that we don;t see too many more games with no wingers/genuine wide midfielders on the pitch. I think that if we have to then playing Howson there is ok but not Howson and Johnson.

Like the look of Cuellar and another promising outing from Hooper.

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Apparently Redmond was feeling unwell Jim.No conspiracy theories here, move along[;)]

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One thing that nobody has mentioned is the apparent improved communication between the players on Saturday. Watching the match, it could be seen that the defence particularly were much more in tune with each other, that the back four were closer to each other more often with less gaps between them and were constantly in eye contact and talking and organising with each other - more than usual imo.  I don''t know if that is down to Phelan, but the sum of the parts was stronger than usual, or so it appeared.   The midfield seemed to have a clearer idea of their roles, with Johnson for once playing a more disciplined role and the shape of the team was good on the whole.

Its still small margins, as Wigan could easily have nicked a goal, but they didn''t - and the result was excactly what we needed to give us encouragement for the rest of the season.    Phelan has obviously had some effect this week - signs that the naivety may be a thing of the past. I hope so.

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[quote user="morty"]Apparently Redmond was feeling unwell Jim.No conspiracy theories here, move along[;)][/quote]

That''s reassuring then Morty. Hopefully we will see him back starting next week.

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