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Time for some players to get some minutes and give Adams something to think about for the Bournemouth game.

Rudd

Martin Turner R.Bennett Garrido

Johnson O''Neill

Murphy Hoolahan Lafferty

Grabban

Bunn Whittaker Miquel McGeehan McGrandles Loza Jerome

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Rudd
Whittaker Turner Cuellar Garrido
Tettey O''Neill
Murphy Howson Hoolahan
Grabban
Bunn/Ruddy, Martin, Jerome, McGrandles, Miquel, Hooper, Olsson

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CJRV 2014 wrote the following post at 30/12/2014 10:15 AM:

Time for some players to get some minutes and give Adams something to think about for the Bournemouth game.

Rudd

Martin Turner R.Bennett Garrido

Johnson O''Neill

Murphy Hoolahan Lafferty

Grabban

Bunn Whittaker Miquel McGeehan McGrandles Loza Jerome

I can go along with that team. What it does, however, is highlight some of the problems we have at the moment. We can''t rest our right back without playing our centre back there as we have little cover in that position.

Also you have shown a formation that was successful earlier in the season. Since that success we have tried to put ''better'' players into the team and have lost the team work. This season we have played so many different systems that it is understandable to me why we have not been successful.

We have good players but it is virtually impossible to fit all of our best players into a system they can all be effective in. And there lies the problem.

Adams needs to quickly find a settled system and get players in who can play that way. If it means moving one or two of our ''better'' players out to get players better suited to a system that he wants to play then that is what must be done.

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Unless either R.Bennett goes to RB and Miquel comes in, i understand he has played there before. I remember Hughton playing him there away to West Ham. E.Bennetts loan is now over, maybe he could fit in there but i think someone said he came off injured for Brighton last night.

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No rest for the players (they had one against Reading) and use the game to improve the back lines defensive understanding and move away from the 4 cm option.  Aim for our second half of the season team.          Options are Martin at RB (whit been ok recently,  martin positionally poor at cb)  Hooiveld ahead of bennett (H slow but positionally solid and disciplined),  BJ ahead of Lafferty (Close choice, BJ goals been great but have masked some poor positioning and horrendous passing) and Wes ahead of Howson (Wes would probably start against Bournemouth for me,  but Howson is far better than his last two weak performances,  and I think he can be a star in this league in this position)    Up front CJ is the option,  but Grabban was excellent as a lone striker so happy to show some faith in that role again 

       

                 Rudd

Whittaker Cuellar Bennett Olsson

              O''Neill  Tettey

Redmond     Howson         Lafferty

                    Grabban

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Thinking more about my previous post, just how many formations have we used this season and how often have we changed them?

We started with a diamond against Wolves which didn''t work, moved to a 4231 for a few games, felt that Wes needed to be in the team so put him on the left and ''tweeked'' the system to accommodate him, Grabban missed a few and Jerome scored a few when he came on so he was picked and the system changed to play to his strengths, played 442 with Hooper in the team up with Jerome, felt that a Johnson Tettey central two was too defensive so fitted Howson in there, but with Redmond and Wes that left us weak in midfield so we changed again to a diamond bringing on more attacking players later in the game, reverted to a 442 with BJ on the left then changed back to a ''solid'' 4 central midfield system.

I''m sure I''ve missed a few other changes but I am doing this quickly from memory.

Is there any wonder we have not been too successful?

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The 4222 model was tried a couple of times too,  a variation on the 442 that was only marginally better than the 4cm 442.

 

Attempting to accommodate 2 strikers seems to be the prime issue,  well for me anyway. 

 

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I think the biggest problem is trying to accommodate all the ''best'' players and trying to find a formation that works with them all in.

This is a chicken and egg situation - what do you get first, good players or a good system?

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Back to 4-2-3-1 and Grabban up front.
Prove it works, can work, and maybe we can revert to it in the league. I also think Hooper could play behind Grabban in the 4-2-3-1 potentially.

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Agreed because Howson, Hoolahan, Redmond, Hooper & Jerome could be difficult to all get in the starting 11.

Ruddy

Whittaker Martin Cuellar Olsson

Redmond Johnson Howson Hoolahan

Jerome Hooper

Thats the only way i can see them all fitting in the starting 11. Im not a fan of Hoolahan on the left.

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[quote user="CJRV 2014"]No way should Grabban be starting ahead of Jerome in the league games.[/quote]
Why not? When he played as a lone striker in the 4-2-3-1 role he had a very similar goal ratio to Jerome.

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As a lone striker Grabban, because of his mobility and pace, is better than Jerome.

Jerome is a better finisher but Grabban''s movement creates more

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We havent seen jerome as a lone striker for us,   but I agree he should be able to do the role well.     His goals per game is good and it would be a tough call to drop him.     However we know that grabban does play the lone striker very well,   hence him being my preference.    Hooper has never looked good playing up top on his own so would be the choice of last resort in this formation only.

 

Someone mentioned Hooper playing in the central hole - I agree thats possible but we know that wes does that role better,  and I suspect Howson does too (if we gave him the opportunity)

 

However if we are to start with a pair then its jerome and hooper every time.

 

As far as missing chances are concerened then all three have been profligate this season and all should have more goals than they do. 

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Time to put pace into the team, but also hold onto what has been good in recent weeks, Johnson on left side of midfield and Hooper linking midfield and attack. Give the Captain''s armband to Howson.

Ruddy

E.Bennett R.Bennett Cuellar Olsson

Tettey

Howson Johnson

Hooper

Redmond Jerome

Subs: Rudd, Martin, Hoolahan, O''Neill, Grabban

(plus Murphy and Lafferty if it''s seven subs)

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Am I the only one who would like to see Lafferty played as a striker in this match? We know what Jerome and Grabban can do, but Lafferty has not had a run through the centre yet.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Am I the only one who would like to see Lafferty played as a striker in this match? We know what Jerome and Grabban can do, but Lafferty has not had a run through the centre yet.[/quote]

You''re not the only one DM.  Imo he has been under used.   Why?   Its a strange one, because he plainly has ability, heart and technical know how - and importantly imo - good tactical nous.   All he has lacked is a goal - and he has hit the woodwork and hit the target quite a lot - so sooner or later he is going to score.  He maybe doesn''t fit the mould of the 442 favoured by Adams, but he could easily play off a striker, or be that striker himself.   It is a cause of frustration that he has not had more game time - his temperament may be fiery, but focused in the right way - by a manager that can do it - he could get us a few goals and soften up the opposition a bit too.   I suspect Adams is a bit scared of letting him loose sometimes, in case he gets into bother, but that imo shouldn''t stop him from being played more. 

He should feature against PNE as should Murphy.   I would like to see something like -                            Rudd       Whittaker Martin Miquel Garrido    Howson Tettey McGrandles  Murphy                    Grabban Lafferty

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I think this thread shows some of the problems we are struggling with as a club. There are very few players who are must starts either through ability or form, this is one of the most unsettled teams I''ve seen in a while. I know it''s often said how great a big squad is but right now I''d kill for an obvious 7-8 clear starting players even if it meant 3-4 less players in the squad.

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I honestly couldn''t give a toss about the cup.If we can use the game to let lesser used players catch the managers eye, all well and good. But this is a distraction from more important issues.And before anyone comes up with "Ah but winning games breeds confidence and more wins" this really is only applicable if Adams puts out a full strength team that he would pick in the league.Which he won''t.

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play anything less than our strongest side....i,e the one that started against Millwall (with Tettey in for O''Neil) and we run the risk of the very real possibility of being knocked out, which does no one any good.

To bring in a raft of players who havent played for a number of weeks and arent up to full match speed...and play them against a team who play week in and week out with each other and are flying high in their own league is a recipe for disaster.

it didnt work at Shrewsbury, and that was in September?....our fringe players are a few months down the line of being out of the team since then, whilst Preston are equally a few months further on a settled side.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

No rest for the players (they had one against Reading) and use the game to improve the back lines defensive understanding and move away from the 4 cm option.  Aim for our second half of the season team.          Options are Martin at RB (whit been ok recently,  martin positionally poor at cb)  Hooiveld ahead of bennett (H slow but positionally solid and disciplined),  BJ ahead of Lafferty (Close choice, BJ goals been great but have masked some poor positioning and horrendous passing) and Wes ahead of Howson (Wes would probably start against Bournemouth for me,  but Howson is far better than his last two weak performances,  and I think he can be a star in this league in this position)    Up front CJ is the option,  but Grabban was excellent as a lone striker so happy to show some faith in that role again 

       

                 Rudd

Whittaker Cuellar Bennett Olsson

              O''Neill  Tettey

Redmond     Howson         Lafferty

                    Grabban

[/quote]

 

Zipper, I don''t quite understand where Martin and BJ have been poor positionally. Do you mean you find them where you don''t expect them to be? I often see Martin receiving the ball in the right back position. This is surtely part of the correct formation to get Whittaker as far forward as often as possible. This then means centre mids have to be aware of where he is to plug the holes. I think Martin is our best centre back and the way he plays releases Whitakker who at times can be our furthest forward player. Everton do a similar thing on both sides with Coleman and Baines. That involves the centrbacks splitting and relies on Barry and McCarthey to fill in and be disciplined.

 

I often have to think why players are where they are. It seemed so much more simple when they stayed where i expected them to be and instead of Ruddy rolling the ball to a centreback in the rightback position Keelan would roll it to Alan Black who''d kick it straight into the South Stand.....

 

 

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[quote user="morty"]I honestly couldn''t give a toss about the cup.If we can use the game to let lesser used players catch the managers eye, all well and good. But this is a distraction from more important issues.And before anyone comes up with "Ah but winning games breeds confidence and more wins" this really is only applicable if Adams puts out a full strength team that he would pick in the league.Which he won''t.[/quote]I''ve said it before and will say it again. I would sacrifice 10 years out of the Premier League IF we could win the FA Cup.

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[quote user="whoareyou"][quote user="morty"]I honestly couldn''t give a toss about the cup.If we can use the game to let lesser used players catch the managers eye, all well and good. But this is a distraction from more important issues.And before anyone comes up with "Ah but winning games breeds confidence and more wins" this really is only applicable if Adams puts out a full strength team that he would pick in the league.Which he won''t.[/quote]I''ve said it before and will say it again. I would sacrifice 10 years out of the Premier League IF we could win the FA Cup.[/quote]But we wouldn''t win it though, would we?Out in the quarter finals to Chelsea or Arsenal.

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[quote user="whoareyou"][quote user="morty"]I honestly couldn''t give a toss about the cup.If we can use the game to let lesser used players catch the managers eye, all well and good. But this is a distraction from more important issues.And before anyone comes up with "Ah but winning games breeds confidence and more wins" this really is only applicable if Adams puts out a full strength team that he would pick in the league.Which he won''t.[/quote]I''ve said it before and will say it again. I would sacrifice 10 years out of the Premier League IF we could win the FA Cup.[/quote]

 

I kind of agree with that from a "further down the line" perspective. I remember winning the Milk Cup in 85 and wouldn''t now swap it for staying up. But at the time......

 

Would be interesting to hear a Wigan view on this right here right now....

 

 

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There are no guarantees about anything and you certainly cannot swap a Premier League place for an FA Cup win but without a shadow of a doubt i would take an FA Cup win above the next 5/10 years of Premier League football.Never forget how dull Premier League football can be for the likes of us after that first season but I could be certain that lifting that FA Cup  would not be dull and would remain a great memory for ever more.In order of great memories as a City fan i would put in this order:1. Milk Cup Win2. That great first season under Mike Walker ( a missed opportunity that we will never have again)3. Beating  Bayern Munich.4. The three years under Lambert.5. Promotion into the Premier League with Worthington ) and watching Hucks rips sides to shreds)6. The two more recent FA Cup semi finals. ( Both ended badly but great days out)7. The Play Off Final ( as 6. above)It would be almost impossible to have a memorable Premier League season now.

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Update lol

Rudd

E.Bennett Turner Miquel Garrido

Johnson O''Neill

Murphy Hoolahan Lafferty

Grabban

Bunn R.Bennett Whittaker McGeehan Murphy McGrandles Loza

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Full strength side required. Preston could hammer an under-strength team, and Adams can''t afford to lose this.

Why would anyone reward the Reading no show with a weekend off? The team needs to play together, as they often perform like they don''t know each other.

Fed up with concentrating on the League - it hasn''t worked for us in the past, and someone has to win the Cup.

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