Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
danielsroundabout

We've suffered enough but must not despair.

Recommended Posts

We deserve a proper manager not a pretend one who hopes to become one in the years ahead. His capability and performance are both inferior to the guy he replaced and his task is simpler than Hughton''s. I am certainly not advocating a return to Hughton but do note that he was almost succeeding (in escaping the drop) in the toughest of leagues, with a squad which was not up to it. Adams on the other hand, is failing to succeed in a vastly inferior league, with a squad generally considered to be the best in the division and with cash available to further strengthen.

I tend to agree with those who think we are stuck with Adams for some time yet but still think the supporters should not go silent on the subject. The penny eventually dropped as far as Hughton was concerned, albeit when it was too late. So why leave the board alone, why let them drift aground again, just as they did twelve months ago?

A new appointment of a candidate with some experience and a track record showing some success will give no guarantees but will increase our chances.

The appointment of Adams was a mindless action from the very start. A few diehard followers latched on to it as an astute piece of insight from the board and a few of them still pretend it to be the case. They will catch up with reality eventually but I am concerned that a growing number of critics of the past year are becoming resigned to the fact that nothing will be done.

Even the EDP are printing stats which indicate that we have reached our quota of allowable defeats for the season already, if we hope to gain automatic promotion that is. Well done Neil.

Their figures, looking at previous year stats of the two automatic promotions, concentrate on the target everybody said we had to reach. A target which was generally thought to be achievable with the resources at our disposal. Play-off places were and are considered too much of a risk, only a 25% chance even when you''ve reached them.

So just a couple of actions needed for the new year Mr. McNally. Get a competent guy in place to give our team some direction and if you are feeling public spirited, follow the lead of the Network Rail guy who cocked-up over Christmas by refusing to accept your ill-deserved bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are a couple of things to disagree with in this post. First: "We ''deserve'' a proper manager." The board should be getting the best candidates that can be enticed or invited to take the post. Given the recent success/stay in the Premier league and a good squad that should be capable of performing better than the first half season, it shouldn''t be difficult to get someone with the skills and desire.I would say that the fans ''deserve'' a proper board, but to suggest that Norwich deserve a decent manager is misguided.  Second: "failing to succeed in a vastly inferior league"This isn''t true. The championship is not vastly inferior. It is only inferior in the revenues it receives. There are a lot of poor teams in the Premier league made up of journeymen/mercenaries that would also struggle in the championship.To suggest that the Championship is poor and that Norwich is better than the division is the same arrogant, deluded bubble that Neil lives in.To get out of the Championship take old fashioned team work/spirit and hard work. Wake up. Norwich isn''t Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool or even Newcastle and have no divine right to anything that haven''t been worked hard for. The Lambert era was a purple patch/golden era but unfortunately the board/infrastructure were not quite as able to capitalize. Houghton should have been good. Did a great job at Newcastle and was unfairly dismissed by them, however for whatever reason it didn''t happen at Norwich. (Expectation from fans after Lambert too high? The board not giving correct support? Changing room politics?)  Until major changes occurs at board level, Norwich will always be participants and not winners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The board are going nowhere and why should they? Of course mistakes have been made but then all boards call it wrong probably as much as ours do. Whilst I have been a critic of the board what I do give them credit for is that they back the manager as far as possible within the financial capability of the club todo so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Texaco wrote, "Second: "failing to succeed in a vastly inferior league"This isn''t true. The championship is not vastly inferior. It is only inferior in the revenues it receives."I''d disagree. The championship is a vastly inferior league to the Premiership, and to date we are proving highly inconsistent (and would likely be doing worse had Phelan not arrived) Whether we are failing really depends on what exactly the Boards targets are, and what they deem as success for Adams and NCFC.I personally think we are bordering on failing because there have already been too many poor performances and defeats or draws against teams we really, really should have beaten. The trouble is, a win and we could be back in the playoffs. Wondering whether Adams will stay is like wondering whether Hughton would be sacked at the end of last season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="danielsroundabout"]We deserve a proper manager not a pretend one who hopes to become one in the years ahead. [/quote]You don''t "deserve" anything. supporting a club isn''t something you get a

return on, other than enjoyment (in theory anyway, though some of the

gutless wonders on here would no doubt differ.)

Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and

thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a

bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="danielsroundabout"]We deserve a proper manager not a pretend one who hopes to become one in the years ahead. [/quote]You don''t "deserve" anything. supporting a club isn''t something you get a

return on, other than enjoyment (in theory anyway, though some of the

gutless wonders on here would no doubt differ.)

Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and

thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a

bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so.[/quote]Actually I do deserve a proper manager. Because, I''m worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="danielsroundabout"]We deserve a proper manager not a pretend one who hopes to become one in the years ahead. [/quote]You don''t "deserve" anything. supporting a club isn''t something you get a

return on, other than enjoyment (in theory anyway, though some of the

gutless wonders on here would no doubt differ.)

Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and

thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a

bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so.[/quote]Wise words[Y]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="danielsroundabout"]We deserve a proper manager not a pretend one who hopes to become one in the years ahead. [/quote]You don''t "deserve" anything. supporting a club isn''t something you get a

return on, other than enjoyment (in theory anyway, though some of the

gutless wonders on here would no doubt differ.)

Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and

thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a

bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so.[/quote]Actually I do deserve a proper manager. Because, I''m worth it.[/quote]The shame is that some actually believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hear, hear! Thank you, Bor. The exact point I tried to make on another thread earlier today, only you put it far more succinctly. The sense of entitlement among many football fans saddens me. Yes we hand over our hard-earned cash, but nobody forces us to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have to agree with texaco73 comments that the fans deserve a proper board. Since Delia Smith has had control of the club we have appointed one outstanding manager ( lambert ) and 2 half decent managers ( Worthington and Hughton ) that is quite a pathetic success rate given the number of managers appointed in her time here. Compare this to clubs like Swansea, Southampton, Wigan and others that over the same period have appointed a succession of decent managers. Until we get new owners nothing we change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Bor''s post was the only one worthy of a read on this thread.

Love the "consumers" comment, spot on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What a bunch of sadsack losers, latching onto the word "deserve" as if that makes him a welfare do-nothing. When you pour your heart and soul and time and money into supporting a team, then you should feel like you deserve some sort of honest effort and commitment back. When they dick around for months not replacing a lost cause manager and then finally replace him with someone who was here all the time, and then lie about it by saying Europe was scoured, then yes, you should feel cheated and that you deserve better from the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To all on this post who think Bor Bor Bor comment smart and correct. Does that mean if the board appointed one of them daft twins off the market as our next manager, you would all go along with it and keep happy clapping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/large-bun-door-knob-3034-51-abu_zps770b306a.jpg.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/large-bun-door-knob-3034-51-abu_zps770b306a.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so."

What a crock of shit. Being critical of the boards failings and ridiculous decision to appoint the youth team manager has nothing to do with not supporting the team. It''s about not trusting the board to make the decisions for the best for the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some of us do support the team through thick and thin! It''s astonishing the verocity by which people are attacked for their opinions on here.I agree no-one deserves anything as a fan. Being a fan is something you choose, regardless of the team you choose to follow. And being an NCFC fan you get plenty of rough with the smooth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
"And being an NCFC fan you get plenty of rough with the smooth!"

Wonder if maybe a Pompey fan,or maybe a Glasgow Rangers fan or a fan of any of the now defunct teams would agree with that statement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Inch High aka Inchy.."]"And being an NCFC fan you get plenty of rough with the smooth!"

Wonder if maybe a Pompey fan,or maybe a Glasgow Rangers fan or a fan of any of the now defunct teams would agree with that statement?[/quote]AM sure they would, (am sure every supporter of every team would) but weren''t we talking about NCFC on an NCFC message board. As another poster put, we don''t really care about what other teams do, cuz we support NCFC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="simmo_2"]To all on this post who think Bor Bor Bor comment smart and correct. Does that mean if the board appointed one of them daft twins off the market as our next manager, you would all go along with it and keep happy clapping.[/quote]There is no circumstance in which that would happen, and I''m not going to debate silly hypothetical scenarios with a twelve year old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="JF"]"Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so."

What a crock of shit. Being critical of the boards failings and ridiculous decision to appoint the youth team manager has nothing to do with not supporting the team. It''s about not trusting the board to make the decisions for the best for the club.[/quote]So what are you going to do about it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="simmo_2"]To all on this post who think Bor Bor Bor comment smart and correct. Does that mean if the board appointed one of them daft twins off the market as our next manager, you would all go along with it and keep happy clapping.[/quote]There is no circumstance in which that would happen, and I''m not going to debate silly hypothetical scenarios with a twelve year old.[/quote

]

But the facts are The Gap between a Proper Manager (ie Steve Mcclaren) and Neil Adams is about the same as Neil Adams and one of the twins on the market.

If the board can as low as NeilAdams, then its possible they could go even lower and choose just about anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="JF"]"Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so."

What a crock of shit. Being critical of the boards failings and ridiculous decision to appoint the youth team manager has nothing to do with not supporting the team. It''s about not trusting the board to make the decisions for the best for the club.[/quote]

Absolutely spot-on, JF. All this ''nobody makes you support NCFC'' stuff is a complete red herring. Nobody makes you shop at Tescos as opposed to Lidll/Sainsbury/Asda. Or buy a Ford as opposed to a VW, Vauxhall or Toyota.So yes we are all consumers of the NCFC brand. That''s why the club spends so much time pushing ''the brand'' in the media/club shop etc. As supporters or consumers we DO deserve a minimum acceptable standard, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. And at several levels within the club structure the fans are being short changed at present. As JF says, being aware of that and voicing it as an opinion is not ''failing to support the team''. As long as a fan pays his ticket money and turns up at the games then he is entitled to demand a product that is fit for purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="simmo_2"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="simmo_2"]To all on this post who think Bor Bor Bor comment smart and correct. Does that mean if the board appointed one of them daft twins off the market as our next manager, you would all go along with it and keep happy clapping.[/quote]There is no circumstance in which that would happen, and I''m not going to debate silly hypothetical scenarios with a twelve year old.[/quote

]

But the facts are The Gap between a Proper Manager (ie Steve Mcclaren) and Neil Adams is about the same as Neil Adams and one of the twins on the market.

If the board can as low as NeilAdams, then its possible they could go even lower and choose just about anyone.[/quote]

So Neil did really well to get a draw away at a team managed by a proper manager despite the huge gap, if he carries on with this stellar learning curve he''ll be a fully fledged proper manager by the end of February, just in time for the final push towards promotion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="JF"]"Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so."

What a crock of shit. Being critical of the boards failings and ridiculous decision to appoint the youth team manager has nothing to do with not supporting the team. It''s about not trusting the board to make the decisions for the best for the club.[/quote]

Absolutely spot-on, JF. All this ''nobody makes you support NCFC'' stuff is a complete red herring. Nobody makes you shop at Tescos as opposed to Lidll/Sainsbury/Asda. Or buy a Ford as opposed to a VW, Vauxhall or Toyota.So yes we are all consumers of the NCFC brand. That''s why the club spends so much time pushing ''the brand'' in the media/club shop etc. As supporters or consumers we DO deserve a minimum acceptable standard, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. And at several levels within the club structure the fans are being short changed at present. As JF says, being aware of that and voicing it as an opinion is not ''failing to support the team''. As long as a fan pays his ticket money and turns up at the games then he is entitled to demand a product that is fit for purpose.[/quote]As a football ''consumer'', or ticket buyer all you''re ''entitled'' to is a safe environment to watch a team and a team to watch.  You can not demand that the product meets your high standards, because that is not how football works. You are allowed to whinge and moan and every fan has that right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="JF"]"Some of you need to consider supporting the team through thick and thin, stop acting like consumers who "deserve" something and man up a bit. Nobody is making you follow this team and you deserve nothing for choosing to do so."

What a crock of shit. Being critical of the boards failings and ridiculous decision to appoint the youth team manager has nothing to do with not supporting the team. It''s about not trusting the board to make the decisions for the best for the club.[/quote]

Absolutely spot-on, JF. All this ''nobody makes you support NCFC'' stuff is a complete red herring. Nobody makes you shop at Tescos as opposed to Lidll/Sainsbury/Asda. Or buy a Ford as opposed to a VW, Vauxhall or Toyota.So yes we are all consumers of the NCFC brand. That''s why the club spends so much time pushing ''the brand'' in the media/club shop etc. As supporters or consumers we DO deserve a minimum acceptable standard, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. And at several levels within the club structure the fans are being short changed at present. As JF says, being aware of that and voicing it as an opinion is not ''failing to support the team''. As long as a fan pays his ticket money and turns up at the games then he is entitled to demand a product that is fit for purpose.[/quote]Goodness me Reggie, even by your standards this is terminally dim.As a supporter or consumer, you are entitled to a minimum standard of ground safety.  That is the limit of what you deserve, i.e. the right to attend a professional football match without your continued existence being put in danger.Of course supporters or consumers are entitled to turn up and "demand a product that is fit for purpose", but what does that actually mean Reggie?  As far as I know the football played at Carrow Road conforms to FA regulations, is regulated by an independent arbiter (the referee) and is played in a ground that conforms with all relevant safety legislation.As far as I can tell, you''re basically saying that supporters (or consumers) have the right to boo.  Of course you do.  Nobody has said otherwise.The point is, supporting Norwich City is a choice that comes with no guarantee of any return - emotional, financial, or even in terms of entertainment - as those of us who sat through the Hughton era will testify.  If if makes you that unhappy then for heaven''s sake take up fishing or open an antiques shop instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="simmo_2"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="simmo_2"]To all on this post who think Bor Bor Bor comment smart and correct. Does that mean if the board appointed one of them daft twins off the market as our next manager, you would all go along with it and keep happy clapping.[/quote]There is no circumstance in which that would happen, and I''m not going to debate silly hypothetical scenarios with a twelve year old.[/quote

]

But the facts are The Gap between a Proper Manager (ie Steve Mcclaren) and Neil Adams is about the same as Neil Adams and one of the twins on the market.

If the board can as low as NeilAdams, then its possible they could go even lower and choose just about anyone.[/quote]When I suggested you were twelve, I was clearly being generous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]What a bunch of sadsack losers, latching onto the word "deserve" as if that makes him a welfare do-nothing. [/quote]Straw man[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]When you pour your heart and soul and time and money into supporting a team, then you should feel like you deserve some sort of honest effort and commitment back.[/quote]I have no problem with people feeling like they deserve "some sort of honest effort and commitment back" as long as they realise deep down that they actually deserve nothing, and that "honest effort and commitment" are pejorative terms that can''t be measured.[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]When they dick around for months not replacing a lost cause manager[/quote]Straw man/hindsight[[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"] and then finally replace him with someone who was here all the time, and then lie about it by saying Europe was scoured[/quote]Do you know that''s a lie?[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"] then yes, you should feel cheated and that you deserve better from the club.[/quote]I don''t feel that way, and neither should I.  Unless you have a share in the company, it''s really none of your concern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...