Does Adams have a tougher job that Lambert did?

[hogesar 9,611]

Just recently i''ve been thinking about how great the Championship season developed for us under Lambert - the excitement, direct style of play, the players...

And it''s when thinking about that i''ve kind of realised Adams might not have it as easy as a lot of us think. Several people have said, from pre-season onwards, that any half decent manager could get this bunch of talented Premier League players promoted. But is that the case? Is it really as simple as that?

When we were promoted to the Championship under Lambert, he had a hugely motivated squad, some who were yet to make their mark on the Championship, but soon would. Our own captain, Martin, never got a decent run in the Championship for Peterborough because they didn''t deem him good enough. Martin wouldn''t need motivating for any game that season, and it showed.

And this isn''t to underestimate the job Lambert done because i''d give anything for a similar type manager now. I''d even take him back now! It was a fantastic couple of years that will live long in peoples memories.

But Lambert had no expectation to get us promoted - fans were loving every win and players were determined to prove themselves in this league.

Adams has the opposite. Fans expecting a win every game (and rightly so, might I add), players who for all intents and purposes want to play in the Premier League and certainly on an individual scale feel no need to prove themselves at a level below what they believe they should be playing at.

Our players, for the most part, certainly don''t appear self motivated this time round. Because the circumstances are different. Rather than arriving into the league on the back of an exciting goal-filled promotion ride - we''ve dropped into the Championship with demotivated players who probably felt, like many of us, that they shouldn''t have even been relegated. They''ve seen their Premier League manager sacked, and an inexperienced but passionate Norwich bloke come in.

Adams has the job of managing extremely high-expectant fans (again, rightly so), motivating a bunch of players who on a psychological scale probably feel they shouldn''t be playing Bournemouth away, let alone Brighton at home - and making it all work.

All I''m saying is, sometimes what appears to be the easiest job can turn out to be one of the hardest.

[morty 0]

Good stuff, and can''t disagree with any of it. Like you say, all about expectations with either upward or downward momentum thrown in.

[thebigfeller 200]

As someone who''s had his head in his hands pretty much ever since the Man Utd game late last season - Adams'' second game in charge - by when it was already abundantly clear to me that cuddly little soft rollover and play dead Norwich were well and truly back - and someone who thinks Paul Lambert is a quite unbelievable legend - I won''t hear a bad word said about him - I think there''s a huge amount of truth in this OP. Tons of it.

The thing about successful football managers is it''s not just about them choosing the right club, or the right board to work for (something which Lambert got catastrophically wrong when leaving us). It''s also all about timing. Paul Lambert took us over when the only possible way was up. Really: how could things get any worse after losing 7-1 at home to Colchester United?! Not only that, but he inherited a squad which was palpably one of the best two in League 1 - best two by a long, long way - and bloody well should piss promotion. Failure to go up would''be meant administration: so the kitchen sink was thrown at promotion, playing perfectly into Lambert''s relentless ambition and drive.

Ecstatic though I was with what resulted that season, I always couched it slightly with "this is great - but we''re only doing what this squad should be doing. He''s only getting out of them what any good manager should get out of them". The next test, the Championship, would be a different challenge altogether - but the thing about such a dramatic turnaround in 2009/10, and the feelgood factor this generated, was it created a bandwagon. A huge one. Sometimes, hitherto grossly under-achieving football clubs can surf that momentum when it comes along to an amazing extent: this awesome power and energy is created around the whole club, everyone pulling in the same direction. That''s how Manchester City achieved two straight promotions - the second hugely against the odds - between 1998 and 2000; and it''s also how Norwich City did the same - the second, with a squad which in terms of pure quality, was no more than top half standard - between 2009 and 2011. Momentum was everything.

In our case, it was so powerful, and Lambert had such a magical hold over his players, that unlike Man City in 2000/1, we even kept riding it through that fantastic first season back in the Prem. I was astounded by that. In Summer 2011, I couldn''t for the life of me see how a squad which still had a handful of, in theory, League 1 players, could possibly stay up in the top flight; yet the difference that momentum, attitude, self-belief and bucketloads of motivation made was extraordinary. Lambert could walk on water as far as I was concerned; 12th with that squad, outplaying Tottenham and Arsenal in their own middens and so much else besides, was just phenomenal.

But the OP is right. Because he took us over at our lowest ebb in half a century, there was no great pressure on Paul; and there certainly wasn''t any once we were out of League 1. It was win-win for him - but credit to him for spotting such a marvellous opportunity, and seizing it. The players rode the wave with him: players who, I agree, couldn''t have dreamt of such success before he came along. And their balls, their attitude, their over-my-dead-body-to-hell-with-the-torpedos-full-steam-ahead approach was only an extension of his. 

But now? Now we have a squad for whom those days are long since passed. Now we have a squad which learnt not how to win, but how to lose under Chris Hughton. Rather than talk them up, he''d talk them down; rather than "let them worry about us!", it was suddenly all about staying in our little zones, keeping it tight, and how we these were all top, top sides in this Barclays Premier League. Demotivated, losing confidence, then their new manager was unveiled. Someone they could respect? Someone who''d drive them on? Someone with a clear tactical plan, or at least who was a great man-manager? Nope. Now the youth team coach was in charge instead.

And that youth team coach was plunged in way over his head. Unlike others who cut their teeth in lower divisions - unlike Lambert starting with us at our lowest ebb - Neil Adams took over with us still in the Premier League, five points above the relegation zone, but very much downwardly mobile. Not a smart move. Whereas Lambert could really only win, Adams, given our hellish run-in, could really only lose - except our eternally hopeless board rewarded him with the permanent job regardless.

So then we began re-shaping the squad: one which, on paper, should again be top 2. But unlike League 1, the Championship is very unforgiving, and sorts out the lazy, complacent clubs from those properly managed and following a real plan in no time. And in this of all leagues, what a squad needs in order to be successful is characters and leaders in abundance. Lambert had those; Adams doesn''t. His own weakness and lack of leadership is epitomised by his squad. Gifted, but flaky. Brilliant on their day; liable to lose to absolutely anyone on others.

That''s where the wild inconsistency comes from. We have the wrong sorts of players here now, just as we have completely the wrong manager - but who does that go back to? The board. Who if they had even half a clue, would''ve sussed this in five seconds, and made an immediate managerial change to a much more driven and proven operator who''d get fingers out of arses and start cracking heads. Someone like Neil Lennon. Yet what did they do instead? Make an absolutely absurd appointment - and then dither. Their chronic mental weakness and lack of leadership is, again, mirrored by the manager and the players.

The truth about Neil Adams is, just like Bryan Gunn, he was always on a hiding to nothing - and there''s many reasons for that. But that only increases the board''s culpability for appointing him. Square pegs and round holes, as our beloved majority shareholder once said about one of Adams'' many predecessors under her so often clodhoppingly clueless watch.

[ron obvious 1,495]

It always makes me smile when I read these "get Pulis" "get Lennon" "get Mackay", or whoever is the particular poster''s pet favourite, comments here. Same with players. It''s silly.

Looked at objectively, we''re not a very enticing opposition for a manager with Prem. ambitions. Stuck out on a limb, miles from anywhere, with no sugar daddy owners, we''re always going to be Champs/lower Prem if we''re lucky fodder. Should we therefore give up trying? Not on your Nellie. Just remember, it''s always going to be a fight, & if we can get established in the top tier, it''s going to be a long term strategic effort, not achieved by gambling all your money on RvW type players or expensive, overrated managers.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

I think that''s a well put argument OP, there were so many circumstance surrounding the Lambert era that all pulled together to make it a great success. Of course the manager gets the credit, and rightly so, but everything just worked, it was a unique combination some of which was by design and some of which just happened. If we brought Lamber back now with our current group and circumstances it would be very interesting to see if he could make a success of things.

I must take issue with Bigfella, which I know is dangerous after your excellent contribution to Canary Call

"And in this of all leagues, what a squad needs in order to be successful is characters and leaders in abundance. Lambert had those; Adams doesn''t. His own weakness and lack of leadership is epitomised by his squad. Gifted, but flaky. Brilliant on their day; liable to lose to absolutely anyone on others."

It seems to me that you are making massive and possibly grossly unfair assumptions about Adams here, " his own weakness and lack of leadership" come on, do you have some inside knowledge to what''s going on in the dressing room?

[kantata soul 0]

If it''s a tougher job then all the more reason to appoint an experienced manager. Putting Delia''s pet radio commentator in charge is pure madness.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Adams had an impossible job from the outset. At a time when the players needed motivating and inspiring after the dull time under Hughton, the board cocked up by appointing Adams who whilst one day he might be up to the job, was appointed at the wrong time.

We needed someone who the players look up to and can''t help but try and impress. Adams just doesn''t have that aura that Lambert did (ex CL winner) or Karanka (ex Spain international) does at Boro.

[hogesar 9,611]

[quote user="estrada rumtotal"]If it''s a tougher job then all the more reason to appoint an experienced manager. Putting Delia''s pet radio commentator in charge is pure madness.[/quote]

Highlighted bit is a fair comment. The second bit, Delia''s pet, and radio commentator are harsh and unfounded.

I agree that a good, experienced manager would have been a positive appointment in the summer. Whether we could attract the right one or not is another question.