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Yarmy Charlie

Ched Evans

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Firstly, he''s a League 1 standard striker, so no.

I''m guessing you''re asking whether his conviction should stop him from being taken on by the club. And on that basis, it''s a large no again.

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As regards a player he was once certainly very talented, as regards the conviction i still think the whole thing was a very dodgy conviction based on the evidence then you look at the Pistorious case and the guy basically gets away with cold blooded murder, strange world we live in !!!

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Whatever his merits as a footballer, upon his release from prison he''ll be tied up with appealing his conviction. Just had a read through his website and it looks to me like he''s been totally stitched up.

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Yeh, I can see why you say that.

The British Criminal system has deliberately stitched him up, and his defence lawyer decided they couldn''t be bothered to use all the information to defend him, and Ched''s ''mate'' puts something on the internet, so that must be the truth...............

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]Yeh, I can see why you say that.

The British Criminal system has deliberately stitched him up, and his defence lawyer decided they couldn''t be bothered to use all the information to defend him, and Ched''s ''mate'' puts something on the internet, so that must be the truth...............[/quote]

You can be cynical, but the facts speak for themselves.  He was stupid.  His mate was stupid.   The girl was stupid.  The police were stupid.  The criminal justice system was stupid.   On a level of stupidity this case must be near the top. He may have taken advantage of the situation to dip his wick, but there is no proof that the girl did or didn''t consent.   Sordid and unpleasant the whole thing looks, but to try and apportion blame to any one of them is a little ridiculous and a waste of taxpayers money. Many of us will have been in a situation where a girl is drunk, we are drunk and things have gone beyond where they should have done and maybe both have regretted it or been embarrassed the next day - such can be the nature of one night stands.  This case is only different because Evans joined in to a situation half way through and  unpleasant as it all sounds in the light of day, the rape label just doesn''t wash.  Imo.

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Wow

Let me just leave it at, in response to the Binner''s reply, that I would go with the judgement of the British Legal system, and all it stands for, over Ched''s mate. Even Ched''s mate has a pop at the Defence team

Sorry LDC, we will agree to disagree, right from the off, on this particular case

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[quote user="1touch"]  Just had a read through his website and it looks to me like he''s been totally stitched up.
[/quote]

How else would you have expected them to make it look?

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Not going to enter the did he didn''t he debate too deep but I''ve read both sides of the argument and I don''t think this case is over yet. It''s not like he''s violently assaulted a poor, innocent, helpless girl in broad daylight if you get my drift, there''s a lot of grey areas that after trial got judged against Ched.

One thing I won''t doubt is that he''s been a complete donut, not the sort i''d want roaming down prince of wales road on a Saturday night after Norwich matches if that is his craic. His girlfriend has shown incredible loyalty to stick with him throughout and it makes you wonder what the hell he was doing cheating on her. I guess young lads with lots of money and lots of spare time get a bit bored with everything being right in their lives and so feel the buzz to create new challenges.

As for the footballer. If he''s as good as he was when he was convicted, he''s a very solid championship level striker, clearly too good for league one. I don''t see the need for him at the moment as we have plenty of options there. He was good for us first time round and helped delay our decline to league one massively.

Him returning to Sheffield Utd, I think he should be allowed to return. We live in a society where convicts are encouraged to reform and rebuild after doing what the law interprets as their punishment. To deny him a football career would be breaking this law. Whatever side you take, he''s done his time and the cries of "he doesn''t show pennance" are because he feels he''s innocent, not because he thinks he is allowed to do what he was accused of. He has every right to protest his innocence if he feels he''s not done what he''s accused of. This is different to if he thought what he was accused of was okay and he had admitted to doing it.

If they do decide to take him on, they will need to be careful the way they manage him. It will cause a lot of attention both positive and negative. I have no answers on how they should handle this apart from looking at people like Lee Hughes and that goalkeeper McCormick who have since returned to professional football after serious crimes.

The whole thing with the victim just seems a bit cliche but maybe i''m wrong. The alleged tweets she sent and then deleted don''t paint her in a great light either. Where do you draw the line. For a lot of people, drunken one night stands are a part of life and yes you may feel embarrased in the morning and have changed your mind when the alcohol wore off but the general consensus is that it''s a mutual (allbeit drunken) consensual mistake. As Robin Thicke alludes to in "Blurred Lines" there is a very fine line between a drunken one nighter and what Ched is accused and (rightly or wrongly) convicted of.

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Conviction wise, Id take him in a heartbeat, the whole conviction was an absolute farce.

Talent wise, I didn''t rate him so much when we had him, but he seems to have bulked and developed as a player. Certainly think he could do a job in this division.

Id be interested to know what kind of shape he is in, whether he still has a desire to play and whether his skin is thick enough to handle the barrage of abuse he will undoubtedly face.

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Interesting you say that CD. I''m the opposite talent wise. While we had him, he was arguably our best player (look at his scoring record and that belter against Cardiff!). Now we are better and have enough options so i wouldn''t say we need him.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="crabbycanary"]Yeh, I can see why you say that.

The British Criminal system has deliberately stitched him up, and his defence lawyer decided they couldn''t be bothered to use all the information to defend him, and Ched''s ''mate'' puts something on the internet, so that must be the truth...............[/quote]

You can be cynical, but the facts speak for themselves.  He was stupid.  His mate was stupid.   The girl was stupid.  The police were stupid.  The criminal justice system was stupid.   On a level of stupidity this case must be near the top. He may have taken advantage of the situation to dip his wick, but there is no proof that the girl did or didn''t consent.   Sordid and unpleasant the whole thing looks, but to try and apportion blame to any one of them is a little ridiculous and a waste of taxpayers money. Many of us will have been in a situation where a girl is drunk, we are drunk and things have gone beyond where they should have done and maybe both have regretted it or been embarrassed the next day - such can be the nature of one night stands.  This case is only different because Evans joined in to a situation half way through and  unpleasant as it all sounds in the light of day, the rape label just doesn''t wash.  Imo.

[/quote]

I have to say that I am in complete agreement with LDC.

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This whole business is a right old can of worms.Like a lot of pro footballers I suspect Ched Evans isn''t the sharpest knife in the drawer but that said a night fuelled by alcohol can lead to all sorts of weird things. ( as many of us can testify )It does seem a little strange that his mate escaped conviction whereas on the face of it they were both in it together.Evan''s girlfriend is incredibly loyal to stick by him and she for one seems convinced of his innocence. It also seems odd that she and his friends and family would put so much effort into a '' Ched Evans Is Innocent '' campaign if they didn''t truly believe that there''s been a miscarriage of justice.

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Seems crazy that one player got convicted and the other one was cleared. 2 reasons for this spring to mind.

1 is that the question about whether Evans could join in was never asked, in which case both players lied as they said that she agreed.

The other reason is that Evans'' defence team wasn''t as good as Donaldson''s.

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So those that have read bits and bobs in the press can conclude that he was innocent, yet the 12 man jury who sat and listened to all the evidence and witnesses over many days concluded that he was guilty.The prosecution proved that the victim was intoxicated to a point where she could not legitimately consent to or decline the act.I quote the prosecution ......"It is a myth that being vulnerable through alcohol consumption means that a victim is somehow responsible for being raped. The law is clear, being vulnerable through drink or drugs does not imply consent"
I hope you never have a daughter/sister/wife that ever gets intoxicated to this point by their own volition or by the acts of others using alcohol or drugs because by your reasoning she is fair game for anyone and anything. When someone is incapable of rational decisions or stupified through drink or drugs then you have a duty as a fellow human being to take care of them, not to take advantage of them.

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Molly Windley wrote the following post at Oct 15, 2014 8:25 AM:

"The prosecution proved that the victim was intoxicated to a point where she could not legitimately consent to or decline the act"Something must have changed after she was seen on video going to the hotel room "just to eat the pizza"!

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Molly Windley has it absolutely spot on.

He had sex with her, she didn''t say he could. That is rape. How drunk she was is a total irrelevance.

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Whether he is, or was, guilty is somewhat irrelevant.

What is relevant is that he was tried in a court of law and a jury of his peers found him guilty.

Just as relevant is that he has served his sentence as laid down by the law and should now be allowed to continue with his life.

No doubt, whether it was rape or not, Ched Evans must surely be regretting one night of stupidity that has completely ruined his life and cost him more money already than most people on this forum will earn in a lifetime.

Time to move on and allow him to try and resurrect his career.

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[quote user="splutcho"]Molly Windley has it absolutely spot on.

He had sex with her, she didn''t say he could. That is rape. How drunk she was is a total irrelevance.[/quote]She didn''t say no either,Surly most on here have had a one night stand, you don''t agree personal terms before, you don''t ask if you can.We are talking about a weed smoking, cocaine taking girl, who was sober enough to eat a pizza and get into a car with a male she had just met to go to a hotel for sex. Though apparently she wasn''t too drunk to have sex with McDonald she was too drunk to have sex with Evans later? A night porter stood outside the room and said ''it sounded like normal sex'', She later deleted every Facebook message (she had lost her mobile phone and had no way of communicating with her friends) she had and posted a series of tweets to her friends telling them she would treat them to cars/holidays when she gets the money from her ''big win''What Evans did in his position was arrogant and stupid, especially with a long term girl friend, but in my opinion it is not different to what goes on up and down the country every weekend.Id also disagree with the judges statement about been her been responsible for her own safety. Everyone is responsible for there own safety, if you want to remain safe don''t drink a bottle of vodka, don''t smoke week and don''t take cocaine.

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Having looked at the actual court transcripts of the case, it certainly appears to be somewhat inconsistent based purely on my own ''laymans'' opinion.Claimant was apparently already steaming drunk by 3am, went to get a pizza and the when walking home bumped into McDonald and offered to go back to his hotel with him. 30-40 mins later, Evans turns up, asks to join in and and both he and McDonald state that the claimant agreed to this enthusiastically (note that she never denies this, she simply claims she can''t remember).The jury somehow found that despite it being perfectly clear she was already dead drunk when arriving with McDonald, she was perfectly able to give consent to him, but somehow this ability had utterly disapparead a short time later when Evans arrives - does this not ring any alarm bells with anyone?The expect witness called upon to assess the claimants state of inebriation at the time suggested it was approx 2.5 times the legal drink drive limit, but NOT so excessive as to have caused complete amnesia as the claimant describes. It is also shown in further testimony, that a person being drunk does NOT by itself prevent consent from being able to be given, but that instead the alcohol will directly remove inhibitions and affect the decision making process - but not invalidate the ability to choose and decide if they wish to proceed.I also note that I personally don''t understand the logic behind how a jury of ''layman'' can decide cases like this, as the average man/woman on the street does NOT have the necessary understanding of the law and how it may or may not apply in order for them to make a reasoned choice, and indeed it often comes down to is which legal representative can be the most convincing (even if they''re dead wrong). I also know from other sources that many jury members are already biased before they even get anywhere near the court (I remember being told about one jury member who categorically refused to give a guilty verdict against a young motorist who''d injured someone when drink driving as he felt that ALL police were simply pigs in uniforms and compulsive liars - the evidence proving the guy was actually guilty meant f**k all to him).In my mind, either the claimant was too drunk to make a conscious consentual choice or she wasn''t, if it''s the former then BOTH men should have been charged, if it''s the latter, then NEITHER should have been. To re-iterate the point, the claimant does NOT deny giving consent - she simply claims not to remember if she did or not (so surely if she was THAT drunk, then McDonald MUST have been just as guilty as Evans supposedly was???)The Evans case is one that can easily divide opinion, and we must be wary of assuming that anyone who feels that the verdict may not have been correct is neither justifying nor defending rape/rapists, simply that in this particular instance, the evidence does not seem to be compelling enough to have categorically arrived at the given verdict - especially when McDonald was fully acquitted (despite it being clearly stated that the claimant was already very drunk when he met here and took her back to his hotel for sex), but somehow Evans was found guilty for doing basically the same thing...

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The british criminal system is far from perfect but as things stand he is a convicted person and the type of offence does not fit with the family image of the club and remember a significant proportion of supporters are female. He has sufficient talent to be given a chance somewhere but not here

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My own experience of Jury service was actually very positive. Only 1 in 24 did not take the process seriously. And while some people may have some initial prejudices these were set aside as basically needed 10 people to agree after long debate. The judge decides and guides you on the law and what you are deciding on and we went back to the judge a number of times when we were not sure of anything. Furthermore you are deciding beyond reasonable doubt not on probabilities so the barrier for a guilty verdict is high. Having to stand up and say a defendant is guilty is not something you want to do unless you are very confident of your decision in my experience.

Speaking to experienced barristers subsequently they told me they have never known a jury to get a decision wrong based on evidence presented.

Yon are in a very difficult position if the other person is drunk irrespective of the moral angle where you should walk away. The fact that the plaintiff went back with the first defendant may have been enough to create reasonable doubt which was not the case for the second defendant.

The advantage of the jury system is you are being ultimately judged by your peers not the state. Does not mean it''s perfect and the appeal system offers protection but was actually a heartening experience and one I certainly I have a lot more faith in than trial by Internet.

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