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sonyc

Never won with Russell Martin at CB

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Someone posted this odd stat a few weeks ago. Why can''t he be RB? I know R Bennett is getting closer to a return but I would love a change this Friday. Come on Neil make a change. More O''Neil too

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Like RM but not as CB, not big enough or strong enough!!.

Why buy 2 CB then play your RB at CB???.

2 CB on bench this afternoon, just proves Adams really hasn''t got a scooby do!!

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Ruddy

Martin Turner Hooiveld Olsson

Tettey O''Neill

Redmond Howson Lafferty

Jerome

Rudd Miquel Johnson E.Bennett Murphy Grabban Hooper

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Angry man wrote the following post at 25/10/2014 10:

"2 CB on bench this afternoon, just proves Adams really hasn''t got a scooby do!! "

I must have missed their goal!

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It''s a completely incorrect stat. Just off the top of my head, we beat Blackburn at home this season 3-1, with Russ starting at CB.There''s plenty more, if you fancy Googling for all of a couple of minutes. Don''t believe everything you read on the Internet.

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Incidentally, i agree Russ shouldn''t be started in the centre. He''s our best right-back, and we have two centre-backs on the bench. Personally i think it''s fair to say Hoiveld did very little wrong - certainly we''ve not looked any better at the back since he''s been dropped.

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I suppose there''s no link between RM playing CB for Scotland while they''re having their best run of games since the year dot.Nope, can''t be, RM is rubbish at CB & Strachan has just got lucky by playing him there.

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We concede less goals per game with RM at CB than we do when he is not, however we score less, which perhaps highlights his value as suppporting RB, plus he has scored 50% of our goals in our last 5 games, as CB, perhaps we should make him CF.

For some reason many people don''t get RM at CB, but yesterday he won as many aerial duels as Turns (8) and played 13 long balls as opposed to 6 from Turns and 8 of those successfully as opposed to 1, that''ll do in my book. That said we also miss him at RB, so you pays your money and takes your choice, both Strachan and Adams do and they probably know more about football than most if not all of us!

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Some good responses here and I should confess my question was aimed at creating debate. I agree with the goals conceded argument....Strachans view on Scotland defence is less compelling. My question was more about changing a mix that seemed to be working....you could also argue that Grabban alone also worked. RM is someone who should be in the team. I''m far less convinced by Whittaker as a result of RM not being there. I want to see Adams vary the mix more now and re discover either some luck or a winning formula

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For me its less about russ at CB its more about whittaker at right back

SWs defending was poor again, as was his attacking play - he is just in a dip in form and shoudl be dropped

We have a better option in Russ with hooiveld coming in, or alternatively we should give cuellar a go or even elliott (not my preference but would be a populist choice!)

I do think we have played better with Hooiveld at CB rather than martin. And although the goals conceded per game stats dont support it the results do.

We have not lost a game with Russ starting at RB (meaning Hooiveld at CB) this season (w3 d2) and have gained 2.2 points per game against "just" 1.3 without - 65% better without SW in the team than without.

One is promotion winning form; the other not.

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apologies - my stats about russ at rb are wrong - is p6 W4D2 - 2.3ppg compared to 1.1 points per game with him at cb.

forgot about the ipswich game with ryan at CB.

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I''m not really a fan of Turner having to play on the left side of CB to accommodate Martin.

 

Considering Hooiveld has done alright for us, brings a natural balance to the defence, has been successful in this league and does try to play some decent stuff from the back I don''t really understand why he isn''t in there.

 

 

 

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[quote user="Ray"]We concede less goals per game with RM at CB than we do when he is not, however we score less, which perhaps highlights his value as suppporting RB, plus he has scored 50% of our goals in our last 5 games, as CB, perhaps we should make him CF.

For some reason many people don''t get RM at CB, but yesterday he won as many aerial duels as Turns (8) and played 13 long balls as opposed to 6 from Turns and 8 of those successfully as opposed to 1, that''ll do in my book. That said we also miss him at RB, so you pays your money and takes your choice, both Strachan and Adams do and they probably know more about football than most if not all of us![/quote]Clone him, then play:RuddyMartin Martin Martin MartinMartin Martin MartinWesMartin MartinAlternatively, buy Chris M back from Derby and use the same teamsheet.

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Nuff Said,

So you think he couldn''t do Ruddy or Hoolahan''s job!!

Although 2 x Chris Martin up front could be a good thing.

How a bout a team full of Martins, first or second name, I''ll kick off with;

Martin Olsson, Russell Martin, Chris Martin & Martin Peters

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Martin Chivers is another one.

I''m not sure about these stats or whether Russell Martin should be at centre back. The Blackburn game he had a half at right back and the Ipswich game Bennett was injured very early.

What I would say is that when Lambert played him central it seemed more popular than it does now. Could it be because some are so hung up on Adams inexperience that they are more ready to decry his selections?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Martin Chivers is another one.

I''m not sure about these stats or whether Russell Martin should be at centre back. The Blackburn game he had a half at right back and the Ipswich game Bennett was injured very early.

What I would say is that when Lambert played him central it seemed more popular than it does now. Could it be because some are so hung up on Adams inexperience that they are more ready to decry his selections?[/quote]Not entirely, when you''re a successful manager, as Lambert was for us, fans go home after a win full of praise of your tactical masterstrokes.Unfortunately when you''ve failed to win at home five games in a row the fans do start to question your judgement. Especially when you are perceived to have one of the better squads in the league.Additionally the purchase of not 1, or 2 but 3 centre backs in the summer in Miguel, Cuellar and Hooiveld doesn''t suggest a manager who is fully content with his current choice of starting centre backs. And seemed a strange run of events after giving Martin the number 5 shirt and the captains armband. Surely if he''d seen Martin at centre back and thought "Yes, that''s the position for this lad" he would have gone out and bought cover for Whittaker at right back instead.It''s also odd that he would bother bringing in Miguel just for him to sit on the bench even with Ryan Bennett out.Of course, if we thump Bolton by a three goal scoreline on Friday night and go back top of the table no one, including myself, will have a bad word to say about Mr. Adams and I''ll be telling you how I always thought Martin would come good as a central defender. As is the hypocritical world of football supporters. After all, it''s a funny old game.

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But surely anybody with half a brain could tell you that we clearly don''t have any issues defensively, it''s scoring goals which is the issue.

People contradict themselves hugely, they are saying RM is rubbish at centre back, simply because he got outjumped for the goal away at Wolves, also saying that Lafferty needs to be played up top because of his form for N Ireland, ignoring the fact that RM and Whittaker have been very good for Scotland.

 

The only issue I think we have in defence is Olsson, offers nothing going forward. Would like to see Garrido return.

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[quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="nutty nigel"]Martin Chivers is another one.

I''m not sure about these stats or whether Russell Martin should be at centre back. The Blackburn game he had a half at right back and the Ipswich game Bennett was injured very early.

What I would say is that when Lambert played him central it seemed more popular than it does now. Could it be because some are so hung up on Adams inexperience that they are more ready to decry his selections?[/quote]Not entirely, when you''re a successful manager, as Lambert was for us, fans go home after a win full of praise of your tactical masterstrokes.Unfortunately when you''ve failed to win at home five games in a row the fans do start to question your judgement. Especially when you are perceived to have one of the better squads in the league.Additionally the purchase of not 1, or 2 but 3 centre backs in the summer in Miguel, Cuellar and Hooiveld doesn''t suggest a manager who is fully content with his current choice of starting centre backs. And seemed a strange run of events after giving Martin the number 5 shirt and the captains armband. Surely if he''d seen Martin at centre back and thought "Yes, that''s the position for this lad" he would have gone out and bought cover for Whittaker at right back instead.It''s also odd that he would bother bringing in Miguel just for him to sit on the bench even with Ryan Bennett out.Of course, if we thump Bolton by a three goal scoreline on Friday night and go back top of the table no one, including myself, will have a bad word to say about Mr. Adams and I''ll be telling you how I always thought Martin would come good as a central defender. As is the hypocritical world of football supporters. After all, it''s a funny old game.[/quote]

 

This is another good thread[Y]

 

I don''t think it''s since we failed to win 5 games in a row that the decision to play Martin at centre back was questioned. I think it was pretty much straight away even though many said he was our best centre back when Lambert played him there. Now I''m still not totally convinced either way but I think it''s fair to say that there haven''t really been defensive issues with him at cb or rb. The unrest seems to be about perception rather than performance. Added to that he plays cb for his country and by all reports looked comfortable there in a competitive game against the world champions.  Another thing to take into account, and many won''t like this, Whittaker has easily been our most effective fullback this season and I''m not sure that Martin would automatically take his place. And remember just because we sign players doesn''t mean they''re automatic starters. A big squad is needed for the rigours of a championship season and most will have the chance to stake a claim at some point. It will be interesting to see what our line up is next spring. As for now this is really interesting to follow.

 

 

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Well, for the record, I was never a fan of Martin at CB under Lambert. To me it always seemed like his defensive partner (Barnett, for example) had to do the majority of the defending and ball winning while Martin would grab the "headlines" for the occasional goal line clearance.

 

I do think we can get away with Martin at CB in this league - because the overall strength of the team should be good enough and he''s "ok" there.

 

But I would also say it only works if you''ve got someone like Turner alongside him. If your central defence was made up of two of Turner you''d be quite happy. If your defence was made of two of Martin it''d be a bit of a worry.

 

And then there''s the other CBs. Either they aren''t up to much or Martin is getting picked for reasons other than ability/merit.

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Well we all have our favourites GJ. It does seem that the intention is to play Martin at CB. That may change during the season. I have no real opinion because I don''t think the team has suffered from him playing there so I''m not assuming we''d be better off with others. But another of the squad may get  a game and establish themselves in front of him at any time. Or they may not be as good and Martin remains first choice. That''s why I will continue to watch the situation with interest and why I think this is an excellent thread.[Y]

 

 

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="Ray"]We concede less goals per game with RM at CB than we do when he is not, however we score less, which perhaps highlights his value as suppporting RB, plus he has scored 50% of our goals in our last 5 games, as CB, perhaps we should make him CF.

For some reason many people don''t get RM at CB, but yesterday he won as many aerial duels as Turns (8) and played 13 long balls as opposed to 6 from Turns and 8 of those successfully as opposed to 1, that''ll do in my book. That said we also miss him at RB, so you pays your money and takes your choice, both Strachan and Adams do and they probably know more about football than most if not all of us![/quote]Clone him, then play:RuddyMartin Martin Martin MartinMartin Martin MartinWesMartin MartinAlternatively, buy Chris M back from Derby and use the same teamsheet.[/quote]

And you could probably play the murphy twins as well

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Oh well, Russ is at CB again as is Whittaker at RB. Plus ca change? Please no.

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We won the first game that Russell Martin played at centre back. It was our first Premiership win under Lambert.

Ironically it was away to Bolton and it was due to injuries and suspensions that Martin was asked to play there - and he promptly dealt with everything Kevin Davies and his cronies could throw at us.

The point about Russell Martin is that he''s got a brain. He reads the game, he concentrates, he plays intelligently.

Sure, he isn''t in terms of pure talent top notch. He doesn''t have natural pace, he isn''t a man mountain. That''s why he''s come up through Wycombe and Peterborough, and also why he will never quite make it in the Premiership.

But he is a top pro, astute, wiser than his years and there must be good chance he will one day be one of the few capable of making it in management. We are lucky to have him in my view.

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