Adams: stick or twist (latest blog)

[Highland Canary 76]

Perhaps, the more relevant question is given a choice between the two as our manager, which one would you pick?

[sgncfc 1,227]

[quote user="Jenkins"]Bor Bor Bor wrote the following post at 07/11/2014 7:32 PM:

sgncfc wrote:

We beat Blackburn, Brentford and Cardiff because we got lucky in all 3 games. Even the win against Ipswich was only a win because Murphy missed a sitter. None of the 16 performances so far have been convincing. Bolton was the closest until we messed it all up with 5 minutes to go. We''ve played well in patches but we''ve been woeful in patches; and then against Boro we did at least manage a consistent 90 minutes by being abject all game.

I guess some people see what they want to see.

Yep[/quote]

Perhaps you guys weren''t at the games I mentioned. So which games do you think we have been convincing in then?

Or do you just make snide comments to make your views somehow superior?

[sgncfc 1,227]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="sgncfc"]I am still staggered Adams got the job. After 16 games, he not only doesn''t know his best team, he also doesn''t appear to know his best formation or his best defensive, midfield or striking unit.

Our supposedly better players (Ruddy, Olsson, Howson) are not performing at the expected level. Our usual triers are not trying. Our runners are not running.

We are only 4 points off the top but with this squad we should be at least 9 points better off than we are, even allowing for the occasional blip - so far out of 16 games we had 8 or 9 blips.

This is a poor league and we have been dragged down to its level, in my view by a management team who are taking too long to find their feet.

I was not one of the "we''ve got our Norwich back" shouters when we were winning. We beat Blackburn, Brentford and Cardiff because we got lucky in all 3 games. Even the win against Ipswich was only a win because Murphy missed a sitter.

None of the 16 performances so far have been convincing. Bolton was the closest until we messed it all up with 5 minutes to go. We''ve played well in patches but we''ve been woeful in patches; and then against Boro we did at least manage a consistent 90 minutes by being abject all game.

Was I surprised? Not at all. Tactically, we haven''t a clue and are extremely easy to play against. At almost every game when the team is announced anyone with a modest knowledge can see the problem areas which the opposition will attack.

Maybe the Board think that Adams and his team have time to learn their trade and that if it takes us a couple of years to go back up we''ll be fine. Maybe they''re right. But if the aim really is immediate promotion then being 4 points off it after a third of the season has gone isn''t really being on target is it?

When do we push that button? On paper we should win the next 5 games. There''s very little chance of that happening but even if we did we would still not have caught up to the 2 points a game target required for automatic promotion.

That is why the Board should act now in my opinion - because, believe it or not, the playoffs this season would represent failure and we are not even on course for that.

Adams has had 16 games. That''s enough to know we won''t go up this year if he stays in charge.[/quote]

 

Now I see you can state that we won''t be promoted and I like that you bring some facts to the tabel with the 2 points per game needed for promotion. I notice that at this time nobody is averaging 2 points per game. And it''s unlikely, but not impossible, that anyone will be averaging 2 points per game at your 21 game cut off. So who do you think will fill those automatic spots this season?

 

 

[/quote]

If you look back over the last 20 seasons or so, 2 points per game gets you promoted most years, but not always. Sometimes you get there with less when it''s a particularly competitive year.

I don''t know who will go up - my opinion (because that''s what boards are for) is that we won''t if we stick with Neil Adams - that opinion is based on what I have seen in his 16 games so far.

If he suddenly changes the way he sets up the team or he manages to get the players to perform, that opinion might change. I didn''t suggest a 21 game cut off, just that the next 5 games are very winnable.

In the same way that I think many people thought that Chris Hughton was on the wrong track very early on, I think Neil Adams is.

I hope he proves me wrong and gets us auto promotion - I just don''t think he will on the evidence so far.

[Herman 9,754]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Perhaps, the more relevant question is given a choice between the two as our manager, which one would you pick?[/quote]It''s not relevant anymore is it? It''s too late in the day to whine that the manager you wanted wasn''t chosen by ''Delia''.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Hi Yankee. So when would a writer be allowed to engage the topic? The anti-Adams sentiment has been discussed on Radio Norfolk, in the stands, on here, on twitter and in the pubs. As I say in the piece, it''s too early for this kind of reaction, but the reaction is very real. I don''t understand the suggestion that a writer shouldn''t comment on a situation that the majority of fans are discussing.[/quote]

 

Hi to you too Daniel. Of course, you already know you are free to write what you want when you want. That''s true of all posters and, you may not have noticed, but I have refrained from entering the fray with other posters on this subject because, quite frankly, I regard such reactions too often to be the way of the football world today and frequently tediously premature, i.e. "I want what I want now and if I can''t have it the manager has to go."

When it comes to journalistic input on all matters, be it sports, politics religion etc., I hope to find objectivity in the written piece. Sometimes, it''s not there and I''m disappointed when it isn''t. We all like journalists who think and write well. I believe most objective observers would realize the Board appointed Neil Adams knowing that their man has the passion and commitment for Norwich but may need time to find his feet. I also believe most reasonable people would feel that 16 games into his first season ( I certainly don''t count last seasons wrap-up ) and four points out of first place is the time to be tabling this issue. I suspect most journalists would agree. They appear to at the moment.

In your own case, as Parma indicated, you seem to the first journalist putting it out there as an option. I gave my reasons for my reaction in the first paragraph of my response, and I stand by those. 

[/quote]

 

Correction:

"and four points out of first place is not the time to be tabling this issue."

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="sgncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="sgncfc"]I am still staggered Adams got the job. After 16 games, he not only doesn''t know his best team, he also doesn''t appear to know his best formation or his best defensive, midfield or striking unit.

Our supposedly better players (Ruddy, Olsson, Howson) are not performing at the expected level. Our usual triers are not trying. Our runners are not running.

We are only 4 points off the top but with this squad we should be at least 9 points better off than we are, even allowing for the occasional blip - so far out of 16 games we had 8 or 9 blips.

This is a poor league and we have been dragged down to its level, in my view by a management team who are taking too long to find their feet.

I was not one of the "we''ve got our Norwich back" shouters when we were winning. We beat Blackburn, Brentford and Cardiff because we got lucky in all 3 games. Even the win against Ipswich was only a win because Murphy missed a sitter.

None of the 16 performances so far have been convincing. Bolton was the closest until we messed it all up with 5 minutes to go. We''ve played well in patches but we''ve been woeful in patches; and then against Boro we did at least manage a consistent 90 minutes by being abject all game.

Was I surprised? Not at all. Tactically, we haven''t a clue and are extremely easy to play against. At almost every game when the team is announced anyone with a modest knowledge can see the problem areas which the opposition will attack.

Maybe the Board think that Adams and his team have time to learn their trade and that if it takes us a couple of years to go back up we''ll be fine. Maybe they''re right. But if the aim really is immediate promotion then being 4 points off it after a third of the season has gone isn''t really being on target is it?

When do we push that button? On paper we should win the next 5 games. There''s very little chance of that happening but even if we did we would still not have caught up to the 2 points a game target required for automatic promotion.

That is why the Board should act now in my opinion - because, believe it or not, the playoffs this season would represent failure and we are not even on course for that.

Adams has had 16 games. That''s enough to know we won''t go up this year if he stays in charge.[/quote]

 

Now I see you can state that we won''t be promoted and I like that you bring some facts to the tabel with the 2 points per game needed for promotion. I notice that at this time nobody is averaging 2 points per game. And it''s unlikely, but not impossible, that anyone will be averaging 2 points per game at your 21 game cut off. So who do you think will fill those automatic spots this season?

 

 

[/quote]

If you look back over the last 20 seasons or so, 2 points per game gets you promoted most years, but not always. Sometimes you get there with less when it''s a particularly competitive year.

I don''t know who will go up - my opinion (because that''s what boards are for) is that we won''t if we stick with Neil Adams - that opinion is based on what I have seen in his 16 games so far.

If he suddenly changes the way he sets up the team or he manages to get the players to perform, that opinion might change. I didn''t suggest a 21 game cut off, just that the next 5 games are very winnable.

In the same way that I think many people thought that Chris Hughton was on the wrong track very early on, I think Neil Adams is.

I hope he proves me wrong and gets us auto promotion - I just don''t think he will on the evidence so far.[/quote]

 

I know you were giving me your opinion. I was asking your opinion too. I can''t get an angle on this season. I haven''t a scooby who will get auto promotion. At your 21 games point last season Burnley and Leicester were both averaging at least 2 points a game. The year before only Cardiff could claim 2 PPG after 21 games. 11/12 season only Southampton. And in 10/11, our last promotion season, nobody was averaging 2pts per game after 21. In fact we had 36 points at that stage.

 

I tend to agree that we haven''t really convinced as auto contenders so far. But for me nobody else has either which then puts us right back in the mix. That''s why I was asking you who had convinced you as auto contenders.

 

 

[Daniel Brigham 0]

Fair enough Yankee but I feel it was a legitimate subject to write about, simply becaue it was the dominant theme of the week. As I say in my piece, it''s at best myopic and at worst puerile to want Adams sacked already but, as people are discussing it, it''s a more than relevant topic for a blog. Cheers for the feedback though.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]When it comes to journalistic input on all matters, be it sports, politics religion etc., I hope to find objectivity in the written piece. Sometimes, it''s not there and I''m disappointed when it isn''t. [/quote]To be fair Yankee, I am struggling to understand how a personal blog post - i.e. an expression of someone''s opinion - would by definition be "objective".As you yourself say:[quote user="YankeeCanary"] I believe most objective observers would realize the Board

appointed Neil Adams knowing that their man has the passion and

commitment for Norwich but may need time to find his feet. I also

believe most reasonable people would feel that 16 games into his first

season ( I certainly don''t count last seasons wrap-up ) and four points

out of first place is the time to be tabling this issue. I suspect most

journalists would agree. They appear to at the moment.[/quote]Those are all your subjective opinions, no?

[Mickdundee 0]

[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Fair enough Yankee but I feel it was a legitimate subject to write about, simply becaue it was the dominant theme of the week. As I say in my piece, it''s at best myopic and at worst puerile to want Adams sacked already but, as people are discussing it, it''s a more than relevant topic for a blog. Cheers for the feedback though.[/quote]

The fact remains that it was foolish to appoint somebody with no experience ,who hardly anybody wanted in the first place.

A manager who has shown precious little evidence that he was the right man for the job, and you say it''s short sighted to want rid of him? I Think it''s right that people are already questioning whats quite frankly a baffling and stupid appointment in first place, adams was never the right man for the job, as last years no show which shouldn''t just be ignored showed.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Mickdundee"][quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Fair enough Yankee but I feel it was a legitimate subject to write about, simply becaue it was the dominant theme of the week. As I say in my piece, it''s at best myopic and at worst puerile to want Adams sacked already but, as people are discussing it, it''s a more than relevant topic for a blog. Cheers for the feedback though.[/quote]

The fact remains that it was foolish to appoint somebody with no experience ,who hardly anybody wanted in the first place.

A manager who has shown precious little evidence that he was the right man for the job, and you say it''s short sighted to want rid of him? I Think it''s right that people are already questioning whats quite frankly a baffling and stupid appointment in first place, adams was never the right man for the job, as last years no show which shouldn''t just be ignored showed.[/quote]

Why is it any more stupid than picking anyone else?  Mackay is a busted flush. Lennon is inexperienced at Championship management too. Are any other "names" that are doing any better?  Rosler?  Don''t say Pulis because the very mention of his name used to bring on a rash to most Norwich fans.  A foreign manager?   A gamble at best.   Adams?  Oh yes, he''s at Norwich already so he can''t be any good....

Its just a case of the grass is always greener.  Listen.  If Adams doesn''t prove good enough we have a structure in place that will allow others to come through.  Gary Holt could step up imo.  If he steps up, hopefully the structure will put in someone else in his place that could take over from him if things don''t work out. 

Constantly hankering after some name manager or foreign manager isn''t going to be the solution.  It''s expensive, not necessarily successful and does not lead to a long term strategy.   

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]When it comes to journalistic input on all matters, be it sports, politics religion etc., I hope to find objectivity in the written piece. Sometimes, it''s not there and I''m disappointed when it isn''t. [/quote]

To be fair Yankee, I am struggling to understand how a personal blog post - i.e. an expression of someone''s opinion - would by definition be "objective".

As you yourself say:

[quote user="YankeeCanary"] I believe most objective observers would realize the Board appointed Neil Adams knowing that their man has the passion and commitment for Norwich but may need time to find his feet. I also believe most reasonable people would feel that 16 games into his first season ( I certainly don''t count last seasons wrap-up ) and four points out of first place is the time to be tabling this issue. I suspect most journalists would agree. They appear to at the moment.[/quote]

Those are all your subjective opinions, no?

[/quote]

 

Bor, I doubt that Daniel has a problem with me referring to his input as coming from a journalistic perspective. He leaves his credentials at the end of each blog he initiates. 

[Mickdundee 0]

Ldc you''ve got to be kidding right? Why was it it stupid to appoint a man with zero experience? Instead of a manager who managed a team in the champions league, he may not have had championship experience but he had at least managed before.

[gabba 0]

This looks suspiciously like club propaganda from one of club''s prawn sandwich munching apologists. After a 20 year decline you think fans are irrational for wanting a man with no league management experience to be replaced?

[ricardo 7,384]

A shame but I think Adams is running on empty now.At best I would say its 50/50 whether he will be in charge for the next home game.

[lake district canary 4,531]

I try and support what the club are trying to do.   I understood some of the thinking behind creating a management team from within the club, after all, the previous outsider  manager who had all the credentials couldn''t achieve long term success, so building something from within is a strategy that can work.

However, that doesn''t mean I think Adams is doing a good job.  It is progressively looking as if he doesn''t have the wherewithal to run a championship team.   Today''s second half Forest put three lots of fresh legs on and we persisted with our midfield who started to tire and   Johnson continued to maraud up the pitch and once again we were too open at the back.  Naive play/tactics  by anyone''s standards.

[Herman 9,754]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I try and support what the club are trying to do.   I understood some of the thinking behind creating a management team from within the club, after all, the previous outsider  manager who had all the credentials couldn''t achieve long term success, so building something from within is a strategy that can work.

However, that doesn''t mean I think Adams is doing a good job.  It is progressively looking as if he doesn''t have the wherewithal to run a championship team.   Today''s second half Forest put three lots of fresh legs on and we persisted with our midfield who started to tire and   Johnson continued to maraud up the pitch and once again we were too open at the back.  Naive play/tactics  by anyone''s standards.

[/quote][Y]

[Daniel Brigham 0]

Hi 1touch. I love a prawn sandwich. What''s your favourite sandwich?

[nutty nigel 7,528]

I''ve heard he''s partial to blue cheese Daniel...

 

 

[The Big Bad Wolf 0]

Looking more and more like time to twist. Rather than Pi$$ money up the wall on average players, it''s time to go spend decent money on an experienced manager who knows how to get a team to pull together and win. Go get Mr Pulis...