In, or Out

[YankeeCanary 0]

 

Fair enough Lakey but, of course, it''s for the Board to make the call. They will, hopefully, have been fully aware of the risk of going with an inexperienced manager and again, hopefully, had a plan prepared to deal with the consequences of a poor start. Now, they are perhaps tainted a little from their original thinking ( whatever that may have been ) and had their expectations raised because, in fact, we had a reasonably good start. We were doing well on possession and picking up points early on and, as I said on another thread earlier, top of the table approaching the end of September. I understand your comments about not substituting for tiring legs etc., however, I am less concerned about that. Adams understands those things because of his football background. If he is making mistakes he will figure that out. or face the consequences. That''s for the Board to decide.

 

My concern is more what I see occurring on the pitch, namely, things that I expect more of from seasoned professionals that have been at Norwich for a while now. For example, we were going along fairly comfortably in the Bolton match until five minutes from the end when, Lee, a good worker, jumped into the middle of the  2 or 3 Norwich defenders with energy such that he ( and the ball ) squirted through and created the opportunity to score the goal. If you watch the replay of that event ( prior to it occurring ) Russell Martin was coming across to cover but, instead  of moving into the zone to block in case Lee broke through, Martin chases towards the middle of the skirmish like a schoolboy chasing the ball, where there were already enough Norwich defenders present Now my comments may appear to show a dislike of Martin whereas the opposite is true. However, today, we all knew we needed a win,  and we needed to be disciplined. Two minutes into the game and there is Martin, the captain, under no pressure at all and he chases forward unnecessarily, misses the tackle, and immediately picks up a yellow card. Now another example. John Ruddy, a good goalkeeper, who many on here suggested should still be part of the England setup. I may have the time wrong but I think there was about twenty minutes to go. Ruddy catches the ball, a Forest attacker moves in making contact and Ruddy looks like he swipes the opponent away with his arm. What should a seasoned goalkeeper have done ( particularly at that stage of the game )? In my view he should have just stood still holding the ball , slow things down, let the team regain its shape before deciding what to do next. No, instead Ruddy reacts to the provocation with the swipe, races to the edge of his area and hoofs the ball out directly to an opponent, who, seeing Ruddy off his line, promptly dispatches the ball back toward the Norwich goal. The latter two scenarios fortunately did not cost us directly but, if the team was looking to its seasoned players for examples of discipline, it was found wanting. Once again, in the last five minutes, the unthinkable happens.  

 

Now, that''s a lot of words to cover a few examples but here''s my point. Neil Adams inexperience almost certainly did not contribute to the examples I spoke of here ( and they are examples ). Seasoned players know they need to be leaders also at this time and step up to the plate while the team and the manager/coaches attempt to gell.

[Yellow Wal 314]

With regret...out. Hopefully he will retain some role at the club (but not manager).

[Unhinged Canary 375]

Norwich Manager in Pink Un unification shocker!

[wooster 134]

I can''t see how folk can say "in" or "out" without knowing what the alternatives are.

Firing a manager without a replacement makes no sense, unless one believes the vacancy will attract interest that hadn''t previously put itself forward. Given that we had a vacancy as recently as June this year I don''t think much will have changed and therefore it is unlikely that new candidates will emerge (unless we''re talking about Magath et).

My qualified response is "out" but only as long as the replacement promises;

(a) a marked improvement from where we are now;

(b) a reasonable expectation of promotion;

(c) intelligent and attractive football.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,738]

[quote user="woostercanary"]I can''t see how folk can say "in" or "out" without knowing what the alternatives are.

Firing a manager without a replacement makes no sense, unless one believes the vacancy will attract interest that hadn''t previously put itself forward. Given that we had a vacancy as recently as June this year I don''t think much will have changed and therefore it is unlikely that new candidates will emerge (unless we''re talking about Magath et).

My qualified response is "out" but only as long as the replacement promises;

(a) a marked improvement from where we are now;

(b) a reasonable expectation of promotion;

(c) intelligent and attractive football.[/quote]

indeed...............and quite apart from anything else presumably it will take our board a fair while to "scour the european leagues for the best candidate" once again?!?

[SwindonCanary 455]

I''ll be one of a few and say IN !

[BOO 0]

Out

[Paul101 93]

the last 2 games have tipped my hand

out

[Move Klose 303]

Well you can get 33/1 on Sherwood now. 25/1 on Pulis. Zola & Malky favs at 12/1.

But that means nothing as Adams is still in his job.

I suggested a couple of weeks back and see commentator Dan O''hagan on twitter is saying the same thing in bringing in someone like Worthington to help out Adams.

I reckon bringing someone in with experience to help Adams will come before sacking him.

[Paul101 93]

but then some of our play has been awesome are we just in one of them seasons and no one will put a run together

[gabba 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]If Tuesday was abject, today was folly.  No help for a flagging midfield, whilst Forest had three fresh players out there so late goals not a surprise. Predictable and lame result, on top of Middlesbrough, the last twenty minutes against Bolton which the midfield disappeared and the previous few matches.[/quote]We must have at least one, probably two surplus central defenders. Our midfield options from the bench yesterday were Lafferty or perhaps at a push Whittaker. The worrying thing is that we''re going to be left short until the new year when Ofoe is expected to return. Even with a fit Ofoe we could have done with another option.How did our football board allow such a simple strategic error to happen? It''s such an obvious mistake that could have easily been forseen and prevented.

[city4eva 207]

I am still on the fence....leaning towards out though

[ROKERITE 0]

IN, it''s still far too soon to be writing Adams off.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"] Neil Adams inexperience almost certainly did not contribute to the examples I spoke of here ( and they are examples ). Seasoned players know they need to be leaders also at this time and step up to the plate while the team and the manager/coaches attempt to gell. [/quote] Your point is well made.  However, I''m going to take issue with you on this because the point you are making is similar to the one I made last season about the players being responsible on the pitch.  In other words if it is players who need to sort themselves out then we can''t put all the blame on the manager.   Obviously its a combination of factors at work, but last season turned because the board didn''t act in November. It was an awful couple of weeks with the Manchester games and general performances and many said he had to go then.  Now lo and behold, we are in a similar situation in November with Adams.  Will the board act or will they do the same as last season, ride the storm, see things improve a little and then have no alternative the rest of the season but to carry on?   We were always only three or four points off where we wanted to be last season - it will probably be much the same this season.   But who is most responsible?   I supported Hughton last season because I could see his plan - and when it worked it worked well (just not often enough) - but it was always my opinion that the players weren''t up to playing the way he wanted them to.  You can blame the manager for not getting the best out of the players or you can blame players for not being up to the task, either mentally or technically. By the end of Hughton''s reign,  the pressure just got too much for the manager and the players.  The same may happen this season.  The difference for me is that I can''t see a cohesive plan with Adams - nor is he getting the best out of the players.  A narrow away defeat happens and yesterday in itself was not a disgrace, but the deficiencies showed by Adam''s team selections and substitutions and tactics have been obvious all season.   Players have to take some of the blame too of course as you say.  Imo Hughton was weak to the extent he didn''t boss the players enough, allowing some of them to dominate what happened, rather than himself.    Is Adams the same in that respect? If so he should go and we should get a manager in who will dominate proceedings - as Lambert did, as Pulis does, as McCarthy does.  Its tough, but here we are in November with a similar issue - things not working on the pitch and manager under fire, players not apparently mentally or technically good enough.  Who takes the responsibility? The manager - that is why he is manager.  Who takes responsibility for the manager? The board.  Last season they stuck with the manager and we all know what happened. The brave decision last season was to stick with Hughton.  They will have to be twice as brave to stick with Adams, as they risk more wrath of the fans if things don''t work out again.   They will have to be tough, thick skinned and ruthless in pursuit of promotion. McNally talks a good game and appears tough enough.  Are the rest of the board?  I don''t know..........This post probably belongs on the stick or twist thread, but for the board it is a gamble of the stick or twist variety. For the club''s sake I hope they make the right decision.....whichever way they go.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="Paul101"]but then some of our play has been awesome are we just in one of them seasons and no one will put a run together[/quote]

Yes some of our play has been awesome, that''s because we have a fantastic squad. A fantastic squad that shouldn''t be so inept at defending and look so vulnerable to fast tempo, quick attacking teams. Adams looks so clueless as to how to solve the defensive problems as when he attempted it we stopped scoring and we''re now stuck not scoring and letting in goals.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

...oh and out btw

[First Wazzock 902]

In

Out

In

Out

I''ll go for ''shake it all about'' if it hasn''t been taken yet...

[Katie Borkins 1]

Still on the fence, he gets the next two home games to put things right and/or to show he has a credible tactical plan.

I would be "scouring Europe" though....

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

In until the January window. If we are in or around the play-off places by then, I''d say ''in'' still. If not, it''s up to the board. Have a look at both Fulham and Cardiff, both of whom have already changed their manager, and done worse since. There are no gimmes in this game.

[Indy_Bones 441]

Has to be OUT.Has been given time and money to go into this season as strongly as possible, but instead we look naive and frankly scared in far too many games, with occasional good spells of passing that simply flatter to deceive rather than deliver and end product.Endless defenders on the books yet we can''t defend for toffee half the time, not to mention the incessant poor sub selections that seem to happen virtually every single game.As for the old ''we scoured Europe" BS that the board claimed before appointing Adams - just admit it was a pack of lies and go get us a genuinely talented and experienced manager from the continent, because we don''t need the likes of Sherwood, Zola or even Pulis for that matter, we need someone who will play good football, get results and take the club forwards with a fresh approach (instead of simply giving the job to ''mates'' of Delia and MWJ).Now that Guidolin has left Udinese and is simply in a technical role for the Pozzo''s, it''s the ideal time to offer him a return to management with a club that has great raw potential and a highly talented squad to make the best of. That would be my call anyway (and I''ve been suggesting him for nearly 3 years now...)

[Helsinki canary 240]

Out and mcnally can sack himself too

[Tim Dawson 0]

Fulham done worse, really, how do u think they gave Kit Symons the job, 4 wins and a draw, do yr homework

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="woostercanary"]I can''t see how folk can say "in" or "out" without knowing what the alternatives are.

Firing a manager without a replacement makes no sense, unless one believes the vacancy will attract interest that hadn''t previously put itself forward. Given that we had a vacancy as recently as June this year I don''t think much will have changed and therefore it is unlikely that new candidates will emerge (unless we''re talking about Magath et).

My qualified response is "out" but only as long as the replacement promises;

(a) a marked improvement from where we are now;

(b) a reasonable expectation of promotion;

(c) intelligent and attractive football.[/quote]The Board and any manager coming in is going to'' promise '' (a), (b) and (c) of course but few deliver.There are no guarantees in football only hope.

[ZLF 271]

Still on the fence, as constant change does not help, however the alarm bells are in full voice with the lottery balls team selection constantly changing midfield formation and lack of addressing the obvious old defensive frailties.

I can see the benefits of changing now though and its a very close call.

We have two weeks to improve that poor defence, adjust tactics to secure a core vulnerability, get a prem loan player in to give a wide left option , get players fit and take advantage of two home games that "if" won would transform feeling a league position all over again. Less than 4 points from those two without a couple of convincing performance and it will have to be cheerio neyul

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]Still on the fence, he gets the next two home games to put things right and/or to show he has a credible tactical plan.

I would be "scouring Europe" though....[/quote]Too late to be '' scouring Europe '' Bor. Already been done and Europe''s finest is already installed at Carrow RdNo, the search must now be extended worldwide and, if necessary, beyond.Maybe one of those little green men on Mars might fancy giving it a whirl ? [:D]

[ReadingCanary 0]

Out

He looks out of his depth tbh

[Carra Rud 17]

Its all Joe Royles fault... ;)

[JF 694]

Carra Rud wrote the following post at 09/11/2014 2:03 PM:

Its all Joe Royles fault... ;)

Or did he see something he didnt like and jump ship at the first chance

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

In. Neil Adams has great qualities. Some adjustment and inconsistency - following both relegation, tactical and structural change - was to be expected. Some element of learning for a new, inexperienced manager inevitable.

An over-arching structure of (say):

McNally, Royle, Adams and Wotte

does however look rather different from:

Adams, Ricky Martin, Gary Holt, McNally

Parma

[barclay_boy111 0]

Out!

And take the majority of the board with him!

Shouldn''t have even been in this situation if they had actually used their head and not their heart once again!