Neil Adams - one of us

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Nigel, this is so close to a painful truth.

I am reminded of the story of the scion of French nobility who was originally discouraged - by his publishers - of releasing a book documenting all the extravagant, wasteful, lavish life he had lead. At the time anti establishment feeling was high in France, he was even felt to be in danger.

Years later be used his own money to publish it himself. It was a massive success and topped the lists in spectacular fashion. When interviewed later he was asked why this was, why no vitriol had come his way, why so many everymen had bought his book despite its contents.

He replied:

"They don''t envy me my life...they envy their neighbour with a car 1 year newer.."

Parma

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

Personally I am not a fan of Lennon, and I agree he made a big mistake in his approach against us but that all said it was sitting back on the lead that let Bolton back into the game..........

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Then it''s surely McNally you should be gunning for?

 

 

[/quote]

Well if your theory is to follow the chain of command to get to the root of the problem just remind me who appointed McNally if as you suggest the fault lies elsewhere other than with the manager. [:P]

[nutty nigel 7,510]

Wasn''t my theory though. It was in reply to Alex who said he wanted Adams out so quickly because of previous managerial appointments.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]The sentiment is well intended, though the conclusion is premature.

Let every one on this board remember that Neil is a fan, a passionate man, intelligent, with an ego and also - let us not forget - all his coaching badges, a league winner''s medal, an FA Youth Cup win, a decade at Norwich City, an understanding of the club, plus an acute understanding of the fans and their desires.

This is far, far more qualified to manage Norwich City than anyone on this board. Many, many pages of unqualified opinion abound - which all are entitled to hold - though much of which is laced with the subliminal, implicit or explicit tone that they could do better, can see more, that the obvious had been missed.

One of the reasons for not offering opinions too often is that managing a football club is rather like running your own business or becoming a parent, you can''t truly get it until you''ve done it. It all looks so easy from the outside. You can be a nurse Watching operations, you can own all the casualty box sets, but until the scalpel is in your hands, you don''t understand what it''s like to be a brain surgeon. An amateur might well have a very strong opinion on brain surgery, might have studied huge amounts of material online - and may even watch operations performed on a weekly basis - though should I ever need brain surgery, I won''t be asking a passionate amateur.

Parma

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone[/quote]Up to a point, Lord Parma! I wouldn''t want a passionate amateur who had watched loads of operations to start cutting into me, but I might well trust that obsessive amateur to know if the professional was doing it wrong...

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Then it''s surely McNally you should be gunning for?

 

 

[/quote]

Well if your theory is to follow the chain of command to get to the root of the problem just remind me who appointed McNally if as you suggest the fault lies elsewhere other than with the manager. [:P]

[/quote]If I have understood the thesis from south of the Waveney correctly it was Bowkett who appointed McNally (I know, I know, it makes no temporal sense, but then madcap theses often don''t...) and it was some shadowy cabal of bank managers who appointed Bowkett, so I guess the guilty people are those we used to owe money to but don''t anymore. The good news, based on this piece of crackpottery, is that Smith and Jones must therefore be blameless.

[hogesar 9,618]

Those saying Neil should resign himself, are so wide of the mark it''s unbelievable.

We''re only just in November - and most of the performances have been OK. Not more than that, not worse. Results however, have been poor.

But Neil took the job because he believed he could do it. If at the first real testing point he resigns - that would suggest a lack of confidence in his own ability.

I''d like to think Neil has the confidence in his own ability and those around him that this can be turned around, quickly and effectively.

This doesn''t directly link to my opinion on if Neil should be let go or not - I just feel people asking him to leave on his own accord are a bit unrealistic.

[Tumbleweed 106]

The "one of us" thing is interesting. In the past this would have been a key factor in a managerial appointment- everyone wanted to emulate the Anfield model which bred years of success. Each new appointment there is hope of a "dynasty" being created, a steady stream of eager assistants ready to leap into place if necessary and carry on the good work. Of course this has its own flaws, especially when such potential successors can be part of a problem, as seemingly were Calderwood and Trollope in recent times.

But these days the need is for instant success, message boards such as this fuel the hysteria, the constant analysis of line ups, tactics, formations, substitutions etc. It feeds the short term approach and it happens in real time. When I started following City in the 70s the fastest thing was to write a letter to the EDP and hope it got published 3 days later. Now we lose a match (yes, even that happened in the 70s) and vitriol pours down like a medieval sewage system.

Football is about judgement and judgement calls-some are wrong and some will be right and many we will disagree with. Modern media allows us to dissect these ad nauseam. But one man has to make those calls, it is an unenviable position when one thinks about it.

However I would be very surprised if there was any discernible decrease in prospects simply because NA was "one of us". It has many advantages, he knows the club, the players, has passion etc etc etc.

A new man can rip the heart from a club, start from scratch, make just as many strange decisions which we disagree with, in real time of course. Managers who succeed in one place do not in another- just look at Vilas-Boas and now Pochettino.

I still believe that NA is (ignoring the merits of his appointment) worthy of time to get things right and turn it around, and the "one of us" criticism just a bit of a red herring.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

In my view the reason the board wanted to appoint "one of us" was because of the accusation levelled at Hughton in his latter days that he did not play in the Norwich City way (not really sure what that is these days - we haven;t really had a recognisable club playing style/ethos since the early to mid 90''s) or just that he did not really fit the club. I think Adams was seen as the antidote to that and as can be seen from fan reaction earlier in the season that worked to a degree.

However, in reply to the queries above about why he should be given less time than perhaps some of the previous even more hopeless appointments. Its more the case of him being likely to be given less time because of how we were burnt previously by similar appointments. I think he has also been given less time by many fans because those very same fans were strongly against him being given the job in the first place. This is not a case of fans moaning with hindsight or even a case where like Hughton the realisation dawned on people gradually that things were going wrong (some more gradually than others). this is a case where fan polls (as far as i can recall) showed that around 80% of fans (or certainly a majority) thought giving him the job in the first place was the wrong decision. The club took a massive punt when they did not need to and i think the attitude of most fans now is "ok its not worked lets change it before its too late."

So whilst the fundamental reason Adams should get the boot is that recent performances, the league position and results are simply not good enough with the resources he has, the patience of fans with Adams appointment has also been shortened by (i) our recent record of woeful previous "he''s one of us" appointments, (ii) the board fiddling whilst Rome burnt last season and only getting rid of Hughton when it was way too late and (iii) the fact that what is happening is bearing out the genuine fears of most fans when he was appointed.

I just really hope that we are not back in a "must win game" scenario now with the board because just as beating a cr*p team at home every 6 weeks or so kept Hughton in a job there is clearly potential for the same thing to happen here with Adams. he''s either good enough or he''s not and in my view 22 games is enough time to form a judgment.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]The "one of us" thing is interesting. In the past this would have been a key factor in a managerial appointment- everyone wanted to emulate the Anfield model which bred years of success. Each new appointment there is hope of a "dynasty" being created, a steady stream of eager assistants ready to leap into place if necessary and carry on the good work. Of course this has its own flaws, especially when such potential successors can be part of a problem, as seemingly were Calderwood and Trollope in recent times.

That.

But these days the need is for instant success, message boards such as this fuel the hysteria, the constant analysis of line ups, tactics, formations, substitutions etc. It feeds the short term approach and it happens in real time. When I started following City in the 70s the fastest thing was to write a letter to the EDP and hope it got published 3 days later. Now we lose a match (yes, even that happened in the 70s) and vitriol pours down like a medieval sewage system.

Football is about judgement and judgement calls-some are wrong and some will be right and many we will disagree with. Modern media allows us to dissect these ad nauseam. But one man has to make those calls, it is an unenviable position when one thinks about it.

However I would be very surprised if there was any discernible decrease in prospects simply because NA was "one of us". It has many advantages, he knows the club, the players, has passion etc etc etc.

A new man can rip the heart from a club, start from scratch, make just as many strange decisions which we disagree with, in real time of course. Managers who succeed in one place do not in another- just look at Vilas-Boas and now Pochettino.

I still believe that NA is (ignoring the merits of his appointment) worthy of time to get things right and turn it around, and the "one of us" criticism just a bit of a red herring.[/quote]

[SwindonCanary 455]

spoke to a Forest fan yesterday who was at the match, first thing he said to me was ''you were unlucky yesterday''  I had to agree with him. Thinking about it, we''ve been the better team for most of our matches this season. It would not take a lot of tweaking to change the team into a winning team, nothing as drastic as sacking the manager.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

I meant that I agree with all of that!

[Tumbleweed 106]

Hi Swindon- a close friend of mine who supports Fulham said to me "I have no idea how we won today" when we spoke after the game.

Under Hughton we counted good spells in minutes per game, seems like with NA (other than Boro) we count poor spells the similar way. Isn''t that some sort of progress? I do hope the objectivity needed is not distorted prematurely by the factors Jim refers to, much of which I agree with.

[City 2nd 191]

Didn''t give his assistant manager and first team coach much support though - did he!?

Legend or not!

[Cheap Cheap Cheap Canaries 0]

Why does he get called a legend ? he was a rank average winger who couldnt go past a defender , and if he was one of us he would leave now instead of continuing and ending any slim chance of promotion that is left .Just another man wanting money and fame at any expense .

[Cheap Cheap Cheap Canaries 0]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]Hi Swindon- a close friend of mine who supports Fulham said to me "I have no idea how we won today" when we spoke after the game.

Under Hughton we counted good spells in minutes per game, seems like with NA (other than Boro) we count poor spells the similar way. Isn''t that some sort of progress? I do hope the objectivity needed is not distorted prematurely by the factors Jim refers to, much of which I agree with.[/quote]Hughton managed in the top flight maybe that explains why we have a few more minutes of dominance now , Adams 5 games in that division were an unmitigated disaster .,

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Then it''s surely McNally you should be gunning for?

 

 

[/quote]

Well if your theory is to follow the chain of command to get to the root of the problem just remind me who appointed McNally if as you suggest the fault lies elsewhere other than with the manager. [:P]

[/quote]

If I have understood the thesis from south of the Waveney correctly it was Bowkett who appointed McNally (I know, I know, it makes no temporal sense, but then madcap theses often don''t...) and it was some shadowy cabal of bank managers who appointed Bowkett, so I guess the guilty people are those we used to owe money to but don''t anymore. The good news, based on this piece of crackpottery, is that Smith and Jones must therefore be blameless.
[/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong but McNally was on board before Bowkett by about a month.

[SwindonCanary 455]

"Adams 5 games in that division were an unmitigated disaster"I have to disagree with that, Fulham away was too soon for him but after that, against the top teams of the Premiership we played well and there was clear signs of improvement, if we had got in one of the worlds best managers I believe he could not have done any better.

[nutty nigel 7,510]

I think that''s the factual order of events except, as Purple was saying, for some from south of the river....

[Tumbleweed 106]

That Fulham game from memory we were only kept out by their goalie and could/probably should, have won. Chelsea away was, in my mind, nearly a masterstroke in that he knew all out attack would be suicide so kept it tight and tried to win it late on by throwing Redmond up front, and only Snod''s lack of pace against Cahill and a nailed on penalty not given on Olsson denied us a win. Liverpool- another game with a good performance against a team challenging for the title and we were unlucky to meet a fired up Man Utd with Giggs taking the helm. So while disappointing that we went down, I am not sure an unmitigated disaster.

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="Making Plans"]

A lot has been posted on here about Neil Adams and unfortunately a lot of it is not very pleasant. Neil Adams is NCFC through & through - an excellent player who always gave 100%, a passionate radio pundit who only ever wanted us to achieve our full potential and a very successful manager of the under 18''s who defied the odds by overcoming much more wealthy Clubs and winning the FA Youth Cup.

Rightly or wrongly he was offered to job of Managing the first team and quite rightly he accepted it knowing full well that if he failed then his very strong links with the Club would end, probably for good.

However, being the man that he is he took up the challenge and gave it his best shot. The fact that he has come up short is sad and unfortunate.

From his days on Canary Call he will know only too well what the majority of fans are saying & he will be well aware that people want him out.

I have no doubt that he is already thinking seriously about his future and he will make the right decision if it''s not made for him by somebody else.

[/quote]Told you - he really is one of us.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I wish the guy the best of luck in the future even if he decides not to return to the club in the summer. There is a good coach and a decent manager in there, just this was a difficult job for anyone experienced or otherwise, what with a bunch of players who havent played with any consistent pride or confidence for well over a year not to mention a divided fan base.