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Is hitting the frame of the goal classed on target in your view?

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N going debate between a few of us......I say that the frame of the goal has to be classed on target as it''s the boudry holding the net! So if the ball crosses the line after hitting the post it''s on target and that''s my side!

Some agree others say not as if the ball bounces back it''s not a goal so off target!

But surely the whole goal is the target?

It''s funny one this!

(I know officially you hit the bar or post and it goes out it''s classed off target and vice versa it hits the post and goes in it''s on target) but if you hit the post it comes out spins and crosses the line was it on or off target!

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Yes but the frame is the target, without the post and bar there in no target. So why is it off target? Surely it''s on target but not a goal?

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[quote user="Indy"]N going debate between a few of us......I say that the frame of the goal has to be classed on target as it''s the boudry holding the net! So if the ball crosses the line after hitting the post it''s on target and that''s my side!

Some agree others say not as if the ball bounces back it''s not a goal so off target!

But surely the whole goal is the target?

It''s funny one this!

(I know officially you hit the bar or post and it goes out it''s classed off target and vice versa it hits the post and goes in it''s on target) but if you hit the post it comes out spins and crosses the line was it on or off target![/quote]The target area, so the goal, is the eight foot by eight yard area BETWEEN the woodwork. The logic of saying the goal includes the woodwork only works if you then count as goals shots or headers that hit the woodwork and stay out! Which you don''t.One of the dumbest - and there are a few - phrases in football journalism is saying such and such a striker "was denied by the woodwork". No they weren''t. They missed the target area. Of course a shot or a header that  hits the inside or underside of the woodwork and goes in is a goal, but in that case you have at least half-hit the target area, since the ball will not have hit the frame of the goal full on.

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MJR wrote the following post at 28/08/2014 9:19 PM:

The frame is not the target. Do you perceive the outside of a darts board to be the target if your dart lands there?

------------------------------

....yes...alcohol

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Off target for me, don''t get anything for hitting the woodwork

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You don''t get nothing for a save either but it''s still on target!

Surely the post and in makes the post itself the target then?

Without the post being there it would not be a target.... :-)

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Reckon its off target. But if we can''t agree on the woodwork what about the goal line?

On a day like Col U away a few seasons ago what would it be if the keeper was lobbed and the ball subsequently plugged on the goal line? :)

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Certainly not.

The posts and crossbar define the target area. Eg the space within.

It''s generally accepted as being off target. Hence you will hear people/commentators say - that was close! Off the woodwork!

Close but no cigar. In off is interesting although in most instances the ball hits the inside of a post or underside of the crossbar so is partially on target already.

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my view of "on target" is either a goal, a shot between the posts and under the bar that is saved, or a cleared effort off the line

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Er, and also ''in off'' could apply to a successfully goal-bound deflection off a player several yards off the line of goal. ''Off'' is not the same as ''in''.

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No on target should be if there was no save by keeper or defender then there would be a goal.

If it hits the post and goes in then shot was on target. If it hits the post and goes out then it wasn''t

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[quote user="Brightside"]No, on target should be a situation where if there was no save by either a keeper or defender - then there would be a goal.

If it hits the post and goes in - then the shot was on target. If it hits the post and goes out/doesn''t go in - then it wasn''t on target[/quote]I''d fully agree with this.

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As others have said, if the ball hits the post and comes back out again it''s obviously not on target!

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Good to see majority all feel the same.

Can see that is the correct view but still maintain that the post & bar are part of the target as it can go in off the woodwork so must be the target.

:-)

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Only if you accept that a beach ball in the 6 yard box is also part of the target :)[/quote]

Yes but the beach ball was technically offside when it deflected the ball in.

So are the posts & bar part of the target nutty?

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Brightside"]No, on target should be a situation where if there was no save by either a keeper or defender - then there would be a goal.

If it hits the post and goes in - then the shot was on target. If it hits the post and goes out/doesn''t go in - then it wasn''t on target[/quote]
I''d fully agree with this.
[/quote]

 

Ditto. Had long argument about this with my son he won. The target area is the 8yds x 8ft between the framework of the goal. If a shot or header hits the post/crossbar and goes in it''s on target, if it hits the post/crossbar and doesn''t go in it''s not.

 

Still a bit hazy if an attempt was heading for a throw-in but somhow gets deflected into the net but there you go.

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From a physics point of view:

Once one understands the coefficient of restitution between the bar/posts & the ball, then the "on target" region will incorporate an inner section of the post/bar boundary which will allow the ball to strike and then go in the goal.

However, what constitutes this inner section of the boundary is not a fixed, as it will vary as a function of the angle-of-attack of the ball to the cross-bar, any spin that is on the ball, and environmental factors (wind, water etc. water being included in the Coefficient of Restitution).

To cut a long story short, it is not a fixed area but it varies according to how the ball approaches the goal area.

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No one is answering this.....is the bar & post part of the target?

If the ball hits the woodwork and goes in it''s on target, so by logic the post & bar are the target and hitting it must be a shot on target?

But I do bow to the fact as others have said if it doesn''t cross the line it can be regarded as not on target.....but whats the target?

I will have to agree with all you and lay my arguement to bed.

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I remember a long discussion on this with one of my mates years ago.

 

If it hits the post and comes back out then it wasn''t on target, but if it goes in the goal then it clearly was on target.  Also if you hit the post and it doesn''t go in, you''re not "unlucky" - you simply missed.

 

If the ball needs to be deflected by a beach ball to go in, or hits the post and bounces in off the keeper, but wouldn''t have gone in otherwise, then it wasn''t on target.

 

And there''s that Youtube video where a penalty hits the bar and bounces back out during a shoot-out.  The goalkeeper runs off to celabrate.  The ball bounces on the ground but spins back towards the goal without being touched, and trickles over the line into the goal.  The striker points out to the ref who gives it as a goal (or whatever you call a successful shot during a shoot-out).  It''s well worth a watch !  So, that would be on target, wouldn''t it ?

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[quote user="Indy"]No one is answering this.....is the bar & post part of the target? If the ball hits the woodwork and goes in it''s on target, so by logic the post & bar are the target and hitting it must be a shot on target? But I do bow to the fact as others have said if it doesn''t cross the line it can be regarded as not on target.....but whats the target? I will have to agree with all you and lay my arguement to bed.[/quote]

 

I think K Lo has answered your question - in football the target is to score a goal, so a shot that will cross the goal line (unaided by deflection etc) is on target, but if it won''t then it''s not. So you could have two shots hit the exact same point on the post, but because of the way the forwards have shot the ball, one goes in the goal but the other doesn''t... so only one was on target.

 

That''s football for you.

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Nope; in my view the post and bar are part of the mechanism holding the target in place. The aim (objective/target) is to get the ball into the space delineated by the frame, the net and the goal line, not to strike the frame/net/goal line.

That said, the bloody ground is also part of the mechanism that holds the target in place; so if my description above were true then a shot that strikes the ground and winds up in the target space (whether initially heading in that direction or not) should also not be classed as a shot on target...

My head hurts!

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No they''re not Indy. Just like the wires on a dartboard are not. They just frame the target and if you hit them you miss the target.

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