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lappinitup

Bassong to Palace?

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]I accept we are all hypocrites but the issue lies in the statement Jenkins made about people of faith trying to do their best by pursuing a moral code. That to me suggests that non religious people don''t strive to do the same. As an atheist I find that rather difficult to take.

There must surely also be a point where catholic priests who abuse children and have their crimes covered up by the church becomes far more hypocritical than most of us living everyday lives can be accused of.[/quote]I agree with you, everyone has a moral code that they live by HC and I would never suggest otherwise. As a athiest though, you can decide what your own moral code is because you don''t have an absolute truth as a starting place to judge right or wrong from, it is down to the individual or society (which are changeable). I would suspect, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you believe truth is subjective. So if truth is subjective it would mean that it may be true, to use the example you made, that Catholic priests abusing children might be right in some situations. And of course we no that is not the case, abusing anyone (child, woman or animal) is unacceptable behaviour.As for you comment about it being hypocritical to cover up the abuse of children. That is more a case of them being deceitful and perverting the course of justice than hypocrisy. But I understand the point you are trying to make and agree 100% that it is not conduct that should be tolerated. Period.However we are getting quite OT here and I would like to close by saying I hope that Bassong does get sold to Palace as I think his bridges have been burnt here and he is obviously one of our top earners and the money could be better spent on someone else.

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[quote user="Molly Windley"]The bibles moral code endorsesSlavery Genocide IncestInfanticide  RapeBlood sacrificeCannibalism

[/quote]errr, no...... it actually doesn''t. But thanks for your input anyway.

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The key with Bassong is to only sign him for one season. his first seasons at Newcastle, Spurs, and Norwich have been fantastic, it''s the following seasons where he burns out (including the wolves loan.)his career could seem a lot better if he gets passed on year to year

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Hairy, Whilst I share your disgust at all priests who have abused young people, I think you should look to fact not media reporting in the interests of balance and fairness.

The children''s society in America did an impartial and thorough study. They concluded that the rate of clergy abuse was no worse than in any other profession granting access to children. Indeed it was far less than in teaching and far, far less than in those working in children''s homes. Ireland was the exception simply because the church owned the children''s homes and these are magnets to vile men.

As to cover up, the Jimmy Saville & Rolf Harris affair, the increasing account of public schools etc... Make it clear this was not a church problem but a societal one for the whole 70s and 80s. The truth is the church DID take it to both the police and psychologists of the day. The police advised dealing with it in house (hence the Garda in Ireland were implicated) and psychologists suggested rehabilitation. Go figure...

So, yes, it is sickening. But it is Aldo unfair to simply slap that on the church and dismiss it. Because that is to ignore the better aspects of church life- that the majority who, whilst being hypocrites and sinners, do huge amounts to help the homeless, sick, and society.

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DCB, do you think the ''shock'' and extra attention may be because this part of the World perceives religion as the morally ''cleanest'' profession/pastime/lifestyle, whatever you want to label it, that has access (that word sounds wrong, but we know what we mean ) to children?

Nothing and nobody is whiter than white, or indeed, blackest of the black, and I feel that the posters on here are not advocating either extremes of this debate, but just expressing their own experiences, and they fall, somewhere in between

Meanwhile......

Sell Bassong

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Morning Dean.

I accept all you say and certainly wasn''t suggesting that the problem was any worse in the church than anywhere else. The point I was trying to get across was that the moral code does not only exist for religious groups and indeed there are many instances where individuals of all persuasions, and none, fall short.

Personally I do find it difficult to understand that anyone at all with a vocation to follow an absolute truth, as Iwan put it, could fall so far short of what all of us would could consider as acceptable behaviour.

The absolute truth point is an interesting one although clearly not as straight froward as it first appears. Difficulties within the Christian churches concerning contraception, homosexuality and women priests show that moral issues within the code are not clear cut. Me with an "individuals" code can quite happily accept all these quite comfortably. Islamic absolute truth seems to be even more unclear for some as recent actions carried out in its name testify.

I know two things. One, most people try their best to live well to their own moral code, from whatever grounding that comes and two, Bassong should absolutely be sold to Palace if we can get away with it.

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Annnnnnyway, back to Bassong. Anyone read the pinkun article about Adams saying he won''t be back in the fold for the Bournemouth game? The interesting bit is his comment about Becchio, which actually says more about Bassong than it does Becchio. Something about the right attitude when they have to drop down to the under 21s, which is why Becchio earned his place on the bench for Crawley. So presumably bassong is not showing any professionalism at all and is waiting for his agent to sort him a move. I still think he may get a move to a palace or Burnley, but he''s not doing much to help himself by the sounds of it. He should be trying to put himself in the shop window if he wants to get a premiership move.

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Dean, the Children''s Society is a "Christian" organisation, that''s hardly impartial. I agree though some in the church do some good work just as some outside the church do equally good work.

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We should all chip in, hire a van and drive him there ourselves.

Disruptive, egotistical... Not in any way a part of what we need to do to move this club forward.

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Lol I only read the OP

didn''t realise the Sunday morning tv debate show team were out again.

Here''s a controversial viewpoint then. Football should be free of religion, politics and all that b0llocks. It should be a safe haven you go to escape that BS!

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Religion will be dead within 150 years. Only on this forum could a discussion about Bassong turn into a religious debate!

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[quote user="JF"]Religion will be dead within 150 years. Only on this forum could a discussion about Bassong turn into a religious debate![/quote]Voltaire said exactly the same thing.That was bout 300 years ago.

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See, I''m getting involved now I can''t help it!

As the human race becomes more advanced with technology and our understanding it is a natural that belief will falter. It''s no coincidence religions thrives in countries with low education standards and is faltering on countries which are more developed.

My biggest concern is in it''s "death throes" religion tears the planet to pieces, more than it as done already.

Science has effectively removed enough doubt from the "is there a god" debate. If there was a god it''s clear that he is brutal, callous and absent for no reason. And he can bite me.

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[quote user="Buh"]See, I''m getting involved now I can''t help it!

As the human race becomes more advanced with technology and our understanding it is a natural that belief will falter. It''s no coincidence religions thrives in countries with low education standards and is faltering on countries which are more developed.

My biggest concern is in it''s "death throes" religion tears the planet to pieces, more than it as done already.

Science has effectively removed enough doubt from the "is there a god" debate. If there was a god it''s clear that he is brutal, callous and absent for no reason. And he can bite me.[/quote]Albert Einstein (possibly the greatest scientific mind of all time) made 3 quotes that I would like to draw your attention to Buh.1. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.2. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes

convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit

vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with

our modest powers must feel humble.3. God is subtle but he is not malicious.

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You are all mad

 

Being an atheist is a no hope situation!

 

IF you believe in ALL religions then IF (however unlikely) some GOD exists you are home and vigorously towelling.

 

IF none exist then what have you lost

 

Now Bassong needs to be shifted to whatever gullible team will take him.[6]

 

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Einstien also called himself an agnostic and said he did not believe in a personal god, a belief he criticized.

Einstein did indeed write those things but considering he published his theory of relativity in 1905 he would have no knowledge of the major scientific understanding that we can now all take for granted.

For example he knew nothing of DNA and how genetics adds considerable weight to explaining the mechanics of evolution. Nor did he know that the Big Bang took place 14,000 million years ago and that our Solar System did not exist at all for the first 9,000 million of those years.

Buh is absolutely right. IMO science provides clear evidenced based theory''s that gradually, throughout the years has eradicated the need to believe in an un-evidenced super-natural being to explain the universe and our very, very insignificant place in it.

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[quote user="The Butler"]

You are all mad

 

Being an atheist is a no hope situation!

 

IF you believe in ALL religions then IF (however unlikely) some GOD exists you are home and vigorously towelling.

 

IF none exist then what have you lost

 

Now Bassong needs to be shifted to whatever gullible team will take him.[6]

 

[/quote]

So to bring this back to football, and following your logic...........We should support every team then we will be guaranteed success.

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]Einstien also called himself an agnostic and said he did not believe in a personal god, a belief he criticized.

Einstein did indeed write those things but considering he published his theory of relativity in 1905 he would have no knowledge of the major scientific understanding that we can now all take for granted.

For example he knew nothing of DNA and how genetics adds considerable weight to explaining the mechanics of evolution. Nor did he know that the Big Bang took place 14,000 million years ago and that our Solar System did not exist at all for the first 9,000 million of those years.

Buh is absolutely right. IMO science provides clear evidenced based theory''s that gradually, throughout the years has eradicated the need to believe in an un-evidenced super-natural being to explain the universe and our very, very insignificant place in it.[/quote]

Pretty much bang on the money for me......

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Buh you suggest only dimwits follow religion. Just not true. Pope Benedict XVI is a serious scholar and philosopher of huge intellect- and indeed Catholic teaching itself stands on the foundations of Platonic, Thomist and Aristotelian thinking. The Big Bang theory was the work of a Catholic priest -and most science has its root in Christian tradition. Indeed I would argue we are getting more stupid the further we walk from our Christian past. Just note how celebrities like Stephen Fry are now viewed as master brains and serious philosophy is barely taught in our schools. Indeed we have an education system far inferior to that of sixty years ago.

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[quote user="Indy"][quote user="Hairy Canary"]Einstien also called himself an agnostic and said he did not believe in a personal god, a belief he criticized.

Einstein did indeed write those things but considering he published his theory of relativity in 1905 he would have no knowledge of the major scientific understanding that we can now all take for granted.

For example he knew nothing of DNA and how genetics adds considerable weight to explaining the mechanics of evolution. Nor did he know that the Big Bang took place 14,000 million years ago and that our Solar System did not exist at all for the first 9,000 million of those years.

Buh is absolutely right. IMO science provides clear evidenced based theory''s that gradually, throughout the years has eradicated the need to believe in an un-evidenced super-natural being to explain the universe and our very, very insignificant place in it.[/quote]

Pretty much bang on the money for me......[/quote]So you''re going to go with "nothing exploded and created everything, then after it had cooled down it produced life from no life" explanation for the explanation for your existence? All of that seems pretty un-scientific to me. Google the phrase "Evolution vs God" and watch the video (I''m not prepared to put a link to it on here as it may offend some).Back to the OP though. Any news on if Palace have made a bid for Bassong?

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[quote user="Molly Windley"][quote user="The Butler"]

You are all mad

 

Being an atheist is a no hope situation!

 

IF you believe in ALL religions then IF (however unlikely) some GOD exists you are home and vigorously towelling.

 

IF none exist then what have you lost

 

Now Bassong needs to be shifted to whatever gullible team will take him.[6]

 

[/quote]



So to bring this back to football, and following your logic...........

We should support every team then we will be guaranteed success.



[/quote]

Nope I can see football teams therefore they exist (except that lot down the road who are a myth of a football team)

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But whose theory IS the Big Bang?

That will be Father Georges Lemaitre - freind of Einstein and devout Belgian priest.

The father of genetics Mendel was also a believer as was the man who cracked the genome.

So the argument that faith disproves science is just wrong. They do different things and contribute one to the other.

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It doesn''t matter what the personal belief so an individual are in science. All that matters is the evidence gathered and how it is presented.

I could care less what Einstein believed in on a personal level. What''s important is what he left behind. His words can be mis-interpreted, his lifestyle altered or doctored but his theories and body of work are there.

The universe is a beautiful and magnificent thing, the way it works is extraordinary and it is all the more extraordinary because there is no god. It''s more beautiful.

And please don''t insult all of our intelligence with the "he works in mysterious ways" BS. Singing songs and believing in fairies does not get you eternal life, it''s a ploy.

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So you''re going to go with "nothing exploded and created everything, then after it had cooled down it produced life from no life" explanation for the explanation for your existence? All of that seems pretty un-scientific to me.[/quote]If the answer is ''God'', then it begs the question, who or what created God?

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Now this is my opinion only, I fail to see how intelligent people con honestly say that they believe that religion is good for the people, where as the only thing I see into it is religion is nothing more than make believe brain washing syndrome it only brings work for the undertaker meaning all wars have been caused by it, As I said to my R.E .teacher 50 years ago prove it to me, He couldn''t, needles to say I never attended R.E. classes and was always in trouble, so you see what I mean I was always in the wrong at school (WHEN I ATTENDED), If people want to believe them let them, but on the same token please don''t bring it into my house

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So you''re going to go with "nothing exploded and created everything, then after it had cooled down it produced life from no life" explanation for the explanation for your existence? All of that seems pretty un-scientific to me.[/quote]

If the answer is ''God'', then it begs the question, who or what created God?
[/quote]

Mrs GOD . They say behind every good man is a good woman![A]

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how come god is an old man - was he ever young or even a baby ?

why did it take him 6 days to create the earth, surely with his powers it should have all been done with one snap of his fingers ?

and most intriguing, is it the same giraffe with his head out of the ark window, or do they take it in turns ?

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