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First Wizard

Praise the Board & Worthy!.

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In today EDP, Worthy states: Ashton is not for sale!.

We must, especially myself, recognise the comitment to NCFC and its fans, by the staunch refusal to ''cash'' in on Dean Ashton, by the board and Nigel Worthington.

Sirs, I salute you.

Also the comitment in trying to get Clinton Morrison here, is further evidence of that resolve to get back to the premiership.

We are lucky to have them, and they should be applauded at the next home game.

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Other City players who were said to be definitely ''not for sale'' include:

Ron Davies, Dave Watson, Clive Woods, Justin Fashanu, Reeves, Jon Fashanu, Townsend, Sherwood, Sutton, Ted McDougall, Phil Boyer.................etc, etc.

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I hope they stick by it i really do. It really does seem like the club is moving forward and by signing Morrison and sounds like we are going to keep Ashton, looks like everyone at the club is focused on getting us back in the Prem and moving the club forward.
I do feel a bit apprehensive though from the old days, when you always wanted the club to make decisions like this and they jsut never did!
Looks like it''s all change in recent years though!
Come on you Yellows!

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[quote]Other City players who were said to be definitely ''not for sale'' include: Ron Davies, Dave Watson, Clive Woods, Justin Fashanu, Reeves, Jon Fashanu, Townsend, Sherwood, Sutton, Ted McDougall, Phil Bo...[/quote]

Ah yes, those stalwarts from the Delia/Worthy regime... oh wait, no they weren''t, they were bloody years ago!

Trust in the board....

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[quote]Other City players who were said to be definitely ''not for sale'' include: Ron Davies, Dave Watson, Clive Woods, Justin Fashanu, Reeves, Jon Fashanu, Townsend, Sherwood, Sutton, Ted McDougall, Phil Bo...[/quote]

And what was name of the fat chairman back then Budgie?.

His name escapes me!. 

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I don''t usually trust what Worthy says to the media regarding transfers, he has a record of smoke screens to hide his activities, but I doubt he would say so categorically that Deano is not for sale and then sell him, he would know what the fans reaction to that would be!

The one thing that worries me, is that he *might* be saying this as a hidden message to the board. *IF* the board are tempted by an £8m offer, he might be trying to make it as hard as possible for them to sell Deano by publicly saying we won''t sell him. I think this is my brain showing general paranoia about losing Deano though, I really don''t think there is a split between Worthy and the Board, but we can''t be 100% sure...

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Come on Wizard!!

From No. 1 Worthy critic to self confessed fan of said person (and Board) all in the space of a few hours. What a U turn that was!

I agree with Budgie. ''Every player has his price'' and I listed many examples of this recently.  Make no mistake, once that price is reached, Ashton will go. HOWEVER, I do agree that Worthy has now made it very difficult for the Board to sell without a lot of egg on their face.

People say that Budgie''s examples were all ''historic''. So? That''s irrelevant. Managers and Chairmen come and go but a club like Norwich will ALWAYS (ultimately) be forced to sell TOP players. As for saying it was all Chase''s fault - get real please! What about Eadie, O''Neill and Bellamy - all sold by the present regime (Board) if my memory is correct. I''m NOT saying we should NOT have sold those players but the point is that leading players kept getting sold. We did well to get shot of O''neill and Eadie when we did due to the injury problems (although we apparently turned down a much bigger offer for O''Neill earlier).

I can go back to about 1969 when I was a schoolboy. i remember the Evening News headline about a player called Hugh Curran. Rumours were he was being flogged off to Spurs. The headline was ''Spurs no bid and Canaries not selling''! SOUNDS EERILY FAMILIAR WOULDN''T YOU SAY?   

If Ashton is not sold then Leon will be. IF that happens can we honestly say we have really improved things? Suddenly this Morrison bloke is being touted as a ''quality goalscorer'' and Leon is being described as ''useless first touch, can''t score or never scores''! RUBBISH. Look at the goalscoring stats. of the two players and there is very little to choose between them. In fact Leons goals per game record at Norwich and Peterboro is BETTER than Morrisons at Brum and Palace.

If you REALLY want to praise Worthy, Mr. Wizard, then if he had spent £2M on a decent footballing center half to partner Shacks and a midfielder who could get into the box and score goals, I would agree. Trouble is he didn''t!        

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Come on Yellow Rider. Saying that football clubs sell players is about as profound as saying that day follows night!

ALL clubs sell players not just Norwich. Arsenal sold Viera, Man Utd sold Beckham & Stam, Liverpool sold Owen etc etc etc.

Yes we have sold players since those on Budgies list, but I don''t recall the present board stating that O''Neill, Eadie, Bellamy etc weren''t for sale before turning round and selling them a few days or weeks later.

You''ve obviously been around for a few years so surely you can remember Robert Chase''s infamous "if Sutton isn''t here at the start of the next season then I won''t be either" statement.

The point at issue here isn''t whether Ashton will leave Norwich City at some point in the future-because he certainly will- but whether he leaves before the end of THIS AUGUST. If he does, then I suppose people will have a right to moan, although I do agree with you that ultimately every player has their price.

As for the Leon v Morrison debate well hopefully we''ll get to see for ourselves who''s better over the course of the coming season. 

Needless to say if neither Ashton or McKenzie are sold before the transfer window closes I''m sure you''ll be big enough to come back on here and say that you were wrong.

 

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I agree totally Yellow Rider. Of course, none of us really know what the plans are until the smoke clears but, in football, all options are always in play, and need to be. To read the emotional "judgement" of some posters as to why it is necessary for the club do to x or y because of supporter goodwill is, after all,...emotion.

I personally hope there is a solid plan in place for a centre back to partner Shackell for the immediate future. I realise midfield needs a strong playmaker but I would make that a close second. West Ham may be a bigger club than us but their record and management over the past few seasons has been nothing to write home about.

 Despite this, however, and upon squeaking back into the Premiership, Pardew wasted no time getting a strong, young team of centre backs in place very quickly with people like Mackay being shown the door immediately. This helps get their season off to a quicker start than we enjoyed last season. We needed that kind of thinking, didn''t get it and now that we''re down, appear to be content going into this season with Mr. Fleming anchoring the defence because, as some have stated, he can perhaps cut it at this level.

That''s not the point, however, is it?

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[quote]Come on Wizard!! From No. 1 Worthy critic to self confessed fan of said person (and Board) all in the space of a few hours. What a U turn that was! I agree with Budgie. ''Every player has his price'' ...[/quote]

Whilst I do agree with most of what you are saying Mr Rider I don''t really think that McKenzie''s and Morrisons goalscoring records are comparible except for when there where at Crystal Palace.  As much as I love McKenzie, his goalscoring record at Peterborough means nothing when comparing it to anyone who was playing in the Premier League at the same time.

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[quote]Come on Wizard!! From No. 1 Worthy critic to self confessed fan of said person (and Board) all in the space of a few hours. What a U turn that was! I agree with Budgie. ''Every player has his price'' ...[/quote]

Whinge, whinge, whinge, whine, whine, whine!

Seriously, some people here make me want to slash my wrists. You''re all so bloody negative!

Worthy has come out and said Ashton is not for sale. Yes, every player has their price, but that price has just been set at an astronomical level. What more do you want the board and Worthy to do? Slap a pair of handcuffs on him and chain him to the bars at Colney?

The difference from the days of Bellamy, Eadie and O''Neill is that today we are financially dependant. We needed to sell those players because in those days we were nearer to Division Two than the Premiership and these players wanted their chances at Premiership football which they would not get at the time here. Today we''re on the verge of Premiership football again, and this makes a difference to players.

Then we were nearer to bankruptcy than self sufficiency. The money we got from those transfers were sunk straight back into debt recovery rather than team building. That''s not the case anymore, as evidenced by the Clinton Morrison transfer, the funds for which undoubtably taken from the deals for Jonson, Helveg, Svensson and - mostly - Damo.  

Today is lightyears away from the situation that you refer to Yellow Rider. This board were not the group that sold those players (IIRC), and even if they were the position they find themselves in today is lightyears different from the position they found themselves in then.

As for a central midfielder and defender, ultimately it''s Worthington''s decision what we need and he obviously disagrees. Perhaps instead of slating him for what you feel we need and want, we should support him in his far superiorly informed decision to pursue what he feels he wants, and for pursuing it in the form of a top class (for this division) striker like Clinton Morrison.

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[quote]Come on Wizard!! From No. 1 Worthy critic to self confessed fan of said person (and Board) all in the space of a few hours. What a U turn that was! I agree with Budgie. ''Every player has his price'' ...[/quote]

You moan if I moan, Yellow Rider.

You moan if I praise.

Nurse!.       

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Andrew, you are also whining at people who are making sensible observations about the reality of football. We all hope for our team to do well this year but let''s not get carried away with hopes and dreams. Let''s have them by all means, but let''s not carried away.Your comment that we are on the verge of Premiership is not a fact, but a hope. We are currently not demonstrating we are on the verge of anything. Last season we conceded 77 goals. Although that was more than five times as many as Chelsea that''s irrelevant given thir budget.

 What is relevant is that 77 goals was almost twice as many as conceded by teams like Manchester City, Birmingham and Blackburn, and 15 and 11 more than Crystal Palace and Southampton respectively. The reason was obvious. Therefore, we had great difficulty winning at all. This season, if we are to use your term and be on the "verge of Premiership", we need to win a good number of away games. So far, all we''ve demonstrated is the inability to win anything at home, never mind away.

So, quite frankly, despite what the rosy picture may look like on paper, taking last seasons efforts combined with what has transpired so far, we are not demonstrating we are on the verge of anything.

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Well said Wiz. I was hoping somebody would notice.  IMO the board need to be congratuated on two counts.  1)  Sticking to their guns with Deano.  Wigan must have been willing to spend a hell of a lot.  and 2) for having the balls to stump up the Morrison cash.  Well done

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[quote]Whinge, whinge, whinge, whine, whine, whine! Seriously, some people here make me want to slash my wrists. You''re all so bloody negative! Worthy has come out and said Ashton is not for sale. Yes, eve...[/quote]

Well Andrew I hope you''re right in your confidence in Worthy''s judgement. I hope that comment does not come back to haunt you.

Mr. Rosario - fair points. I have put a note on my calendar for end Aug. to come back and either say ''told you so'' or hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong. It will have to wait until first week in September though as I''m in the sunny (hopefully!) IOW on Aug. 31.

Mr. Wizard - strange comment from you sir. Are you not the guy who has PERSISTENTLY called for Worthy''s head. I have not. If you actually bother to READ the various posts from the YR you will see that I have defended the team as a whole (and ind. players) so far against the storm of criticism from most corners citing the turnover rate of personnel as one of the main reasons for the disjointed start. I have urged fans to refrain from jeering or booing ind. players. This is hardly the stuff of a ''moaner'' is it!  

In summary (and very briefly), my main arguments against Worthy (and his coaches) are:

1. Failure (in my view) to select sides using totally honest objectivity.

2. Failure to show creativity and fresh ideas in team selection, tactics and, most importantly, failure TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT AS MATCHES UNFOLD.

3. Failure to recognise the need to recruit a decent footballing centre half to partner Shacks, as top priority.

Is this the stuff of ''moaning''?  Ask the other posters. I wager they will largely back the Rider!

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[quote]Andrew, you are also whining at people who are making sensible observations about the reality of football. We all hope for our team to do well this year but let''s not get carried away with hopes and d...[/quote]

Yankee, you''ve clearly not understood my meaning. Regardless of where we are in this division we are certinatly better positioned, better equiped and better staffed to be in the Premiership than we are in the time referenced to by Yellow Rider. I think that is inarguable. How have we got into this position? Though faith and trust in Nigel Worthington who, like him or loathe him, has ultimately forged this team into being - and I apologise for using this phrase again as it seems you''ve taken exception to it - on the verge of the Premiership.

You''d have thought that Nigel would have earnt the chance by now to identify the areas of his team he feels weakest without continual criticism, don''t you think?

On to your points about our defence, consider that last season we played - mostly - with the defence of Edworthy Fleming Doherty Drury and a certain Mr Holt as the midfielder tracking back. We conceeded a majority of our goals with this back four and supporting midfielder. At the end of the season, NW changed that to Helveg Fleming Shackell Drury with Safri tracking back, and we finished with a string of home clean sheets including to Man Utd, Birmingham and Charlton. 

I''m well aware we also conceeded 13 in 3 away fixtures, but two of those were against teams needing those points as badly as we did (which always without fail produces high scoring affairs, just check the other match ups) and it might have helped if we turned up against Fulham as well.

Factor in these changes and the fact we are playing inferior opposition and maybe you begin to understand Worthington''s intentions. He was obviously impressed with how the defence performed at the end of last season, and with the obvious change of Helveg for MLJ/Colin wanted that defence to continue. Maybe we should give this changed defence a chance before blasting them.

And finally onto your point about current performances. Against Crewe we could not have played it any differently. Against Crewe we missed so many chances I lost count at around 12/13. Palace again, we had two or three good chances we missed. Perhaps the amount of chances we spurned has pushed Worthington into bringing Morrison in. In both these games I felt we were solid defensively. Crewe after the goal barely got another shot in and Palace we were bombarded but held up admirably. As for Coventry, best left unsaid!

People are focusing too much on statistics without thought. Yes, we let in alot of goals last season, but two of those four defenders are no longer first team regulars (one even having left the club) and we have a midfielder in Safri who will effectively track back and help out. This is a defence that worked reasonably effectively in the Premiership, and if it learns to cope with the big match ups to avoid the 3-3, 4-3 score lines will see us through this division. However, if we continue to spurn chance after chance, we''re very likely to be watching first division football next season.

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[quote]Well Andrew I hope you''re right in your confidence in Worthy''s judgement. I hope that comment does not come back to haunt you. Mr. Rosario - fair points. I have put a note on my calendar for end Aug....[/quote]

Yellow Rider: You''ve got the wrong end of the stick big time mate!.

I clearly meant that you moan AT ME. Not that you moan about the club. Plus, do you know what a ''winking'' smilie means?.

After rereading my post, I still cannot see how you leapt to the wrong conclusion, so I will not apologise for something I clearly didn''t say.

To clarify: If I change my mind on Worthy or do a ''U'' turn as you said in your original post, you still moan AT ME for doing it.

Better?.

 

 

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[quote]Whinge, whinge, whinge, whine, whine, whine! Seriously, some people here make me want to slash my wrists. You''re all so bloody negative! Worthy has come out and said Ashton is not for sale. Yes, eve...[/quote]

Thank you for a positive comment amongst all the whinging and complaining.   Come on you yellows. 

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