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Whittaker

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I''ve read and heard a few times that Whittaker is an awful defender and should not be in the team. Not all agree but some seem to have this opinion that Martin is the better option.

Martin was a good right back for us ..... A few years ago. For whatever reason (possibly injury, loss of pace or a mixture if both), when played at right back he is atrocious now. He never gets within 5 yards of his man to stop a cross, always seems to look lost and ends up at centre back, either because he''s not comfortable or he''s so far out of position that his centre back has to cover for him.

To be clear, this is not a dig at Russell Martin, I think he does a good job at centre back, it astounds me that people are so convinced Whittaker should not be in the team! With the squad we have, Whittaker is the best option, to those (possibly in the vocal minority) who slate him at Carrow road (I''ve heard this from those near me unfortunately), get off his back, support the team and stop calling for Martin to play a position which he no longer looks comfortable in and is of detriment to the team when he plays there.

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I agree.  Whittaker - at his best - is a decent player.  What we need to see from him is some really good performances and then people will get off his back.  He had a tough time last season with injury and the low confidence of the team as a whole, but I just remember that goal at Swansea the previous season....and it was no fluke either.   Just need him to find his top form and he will be terrific for us imo.

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Whittaker is a decent player and he does get too much criticism - particularly when you consider some of the performances Martin has "got away" with over the last year or so.

 

Neither of them are the greatest defenders you''ll ever see but by Norwich City''s standards they''re pretty good to have - especially in this league.

 

It''s a bit of a halo and horns situation - not dissimilar to what''s happening with the Redmond/Murphy thing. Redmond can do no right and Murphy can do no wrong - even if they''re basically doing the same thing as each other. People who have decided to take a negative view on Whittaker will be much quicker to spot faults with him than they will be with Martin.

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Whittaker or Martin are sadly not the answer at right back. Both are good championship defenders which is were we are at, at the moment but long term we need to be bringing in somebody new. Kyle Naughton or Nathaniel Clyne type players.

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I don''t think too many people are saying Whitts is awful at RB, I think what most people see is a very average footballer who should be playing regularly for a mid table championship side, he should probably be on the bench and replaced by Martin at RB because he''s more solid than whitts, especially in this league and is better there than he is at CB (although I thought he was good b Bournemouth, yet they weren''t an exact threat). Whitts'' only real attribute is that he can get forward, yet he can''t cross or pass in most games, can''t get back quick enough and doesn''t hold a good enough line in defence, whereas although Martin may to be perfect, he''s that little bit better than Whitts imo as well as being our captain

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[quote user="lake district canary"]I agree.  Whittaker - at his best - is a decent player.  What we need to see from him is some really good performances and then people will get off his back.  He had a tough time last season with injury and the low confidence of the team as a whole, but I just remember that goal at Swansea the previous season....and it was no fluke either.   Just need him to find his top form and he will be terrific for us imo.

[/quote]I think that is where the problem lies. People remember that goal as being a piece of brilliance. It was a piece of attacking brilliance. Which we haven''t seen since.IMHO - the injuries appear to have taken a couple of yards of pace off him. He is probably, on balance, better going forward than Martin, but his decision making such as timing his runs etc probably isn''t and nor is his defensive positioning or defending.That doesn''t make him worse so to speak. It makes him different. It means if we are playing a better team with better attacking options then we may want to play Martin, and if we are playing a team that plays one up top and will allow us more space and time out wide then perhaps we''d want Whittaker. That''s exactly what you want though - you want two player vying for a position each with their own attributed that offer something different.

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Parma Ham wrote a very interesting assessment of him as a centre back in another thread, basically that he''s a more modern style centre back that defends well between the lines, has excellent positional sense and would be much more effective in this position in the Premier League.

So basically yes, he is a centre back, this is his primary position since he''s obviously lost some pace (Crohn''s disease playing up again?) and I don''t like him at right back anymore either so yes I''d agree Whittaker is our best option there and on his day is excellent at this level, he just needs to get some consistancy

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[quote user="mrs miggins"] RB because he''s more solid than whitts, especially in this league and is better there than he is at CB (although I thought he was good b Bournemouth, yet they weren''t an exact threat).  [/quote]

This is the thing though, Whittaker also defended well against Bournemouth but there''ll be less recognition for it. Infact he made a number of important wins, particularly in the first half.

 

Overall he probably defended better than Martin. Not that Martin defended badly but, as you say, they didn''t have a lot of threat and Turner certainly let him know he was there.

 

Martin "enjoyed" a good run in the side last season but he was found wanting time and time again. Perhaps, just for a change, we should give it a go without Martin in defence for a few games just to see how things shape up.

 

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I think Whittaker is the better player on the ball, but he is so slow. If he goes marauding forward then we get hit on the counter then he simply can''t get back. Russ isn''t as quick as he used to be, but he still has the edge on Whittaker on that front.

 

For me Whitts is the better going forwards and Russ is the better player defensively. So it''s horses for courses and they both have an important role to play. Regarding Russ at CB, I just think he is too short. Especially in this division, where so many sides play the long ball game.

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Whit is OK for us this season as is martin, but for me right back (whoever plays) is the weak link in our defence that will need attention when we get promoted.

IMO there remains little to choose between either.

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I disagree, I thought he was ok, he made some good tackles which is great, but he was also out of position quite a bit (most noticeably in the last 5 mins of the game when he lost the ball and Grabban had to go and chase the winger-that shouldn''t be happening, it could''ve been a goal had Bournemouth''s cross been better), also his crossing into the box; how many times do we see that guy sky the ball? He was alright v Bournemouth, he did what you''d expect an average player in the championship to do. Martin on the other hand looked much more composed and was comfortable on the ball, dealt with Wilson when he needed to when Wilson wasn''t battling with turner. The only chance they had was the goal really which was garrido''s and Redmond''s fault,the other chance they had that I can remember was just in that last 5 mins when Whitts didn''t track back quick enough. There''s a reason why he doesn''t receive praise and there''s a reason why he doesn''t receive a hate; he''s just an alright player, nothing special, every teams got a weak link; if he''s ours then we''re not doing too badly

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Whit is OK for us this season as is martin, but for me right back (whoever plays) is the weak link in our defence that will need attention when we get promoted. IMO there remains little to choose between either.[/quote]

Should have been looked at before last season. Seemed like nobody wanted to make that difficult decision.

 

Whittaker had only been here for a season and hadn''t done too badly so it would have been harsh to get rid. Martin had been a good servant to the club and is obviously a popular and influential figure so again, harsh to get rid of him.

 

Not a lot between them on the pitch but if you''re going to bring in a superior RB then one of them is getting the push.

 

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]I disagree, I thought he was ok, he made some good tackles which is great, but he was also out of position quite a bit (most noticeably in the last 5 mins of the game when he lost the ball and Grabban had to go and chase the winger-that shouldn''t be happening, it could''ve been a goal had Bournemouth''s cross been better), also his crossing into the box; how many times do we see that guy sky the ball? He was alright v Bournemouth, he did what you''d expect an average player in the championship to do. Martin on the other hand looked much more composed and was comfortable on the ball, dealt with Wilson when he needed to when Wilson wasn''t battling with turner. The only chance they had was the goal really which was garrido''s and Redmond''s fault,the other chance they had that I can remember was just in that last 5 mins when Whitts didn''t track back quick enough. There''s a reason why he doesn''t receive praise and there''s a reason why he doesn''t receive a hate; he''s just an alright player, nothing special, every teams got a weak link; if he''s ours then we''re not doing too badly[/quote]

Yeah but Martin has been caught out plenty of times in similar situations. It''s not as if that''s something only applies to Whittaker. Watch Martin play there and judge him in the same way you judge Whittaker and you''ll see plenty of the same stuff going on.

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]I disagree, I thought he was ok, he made some good tackles which is great, but he was also out of position quite a bit (most noticeably in the last 5 mins of the game when he lost the ball and Grabban had to go and chase the winger-that shouldn''t be happening, it could''ve been a goal had Bournemouth''s cross been better), also his crossing into the box; how many times do we see that guy sky the ball? He was alright v Bournemouth, he did what you''d expect an average player in the championship to do. Martin on the other hand looked much more composed and was comfortable on the ball, dealt with Wilson when he needed to when Wilson wasn''t battling with turner. The only chance they had was the goal really which was garrido''s and Redmond''s fault,the other chance they had that I can remember was just in that last 5 mins when Whitts didn''t track back quick enough. There''s a reason why he doesn''t receive praise and there''s a reason why he doesn''t receive a hate; he''s just an alright player, nothing special, every teams got a weak link; if he''s ours then we''re not doing too badly[/quote]

 

Caught out of position because he was in an attacking area.

Something people were crying out for every week last season.

Do you want our fullbacks to attack or not? This will mean at times they are out of position so other players have to cover for them, also known as teamwork.

 

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Whittaker is a better rb than Martin just, so that means Martin is the 2nd best rb at the club. But he''s now about 7th or eighth best cb at the club but is captain so will probably play somewhere. Whittaker was the rb for the ten game run in the prem which came to an end when he went off injured, I. Happier with whits at rb

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I thought that Whittaker often stole the space that Redmond should be running into. Overlaps are fine, but they have to be timed right and are best used when play switches flank quickly with the winger on the ball slightly more inside than you would usually expect. Sometimes it is better to lay the ball back to the fullback and turn to lose the marker and receiving the ball back again, in space and with more time to push forward with momentum.

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I think Martin is the better right back, but I do rate Whittaker. Certainly at this level. Going forward I would say Whittaker is just better, and the ability he has to use either foot is a great asset for him. That all said though Martin is better defensively, as was proven as it was Whittaker''s fault that Callum Wilson was completely unmarked for Bournemouth''s goal last week.

I''ve never heard anyone say he''s an awful player. He''s nothing special but he''s certainly good enough to be first choice in the Championship.

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ellis206 wrote the following post at 04/09/2014 2:02 PM:

Caught out of position because he was in an attacking area.

Something people were crying out for every week last season.

Do you want our fullbacks to attack or not?

-------------------------------

I want our fullbacks to be smart when they are attacking, I want them to overlap, or when they are on Redmond''s side, to support him. I do not want whittaker trying to take on people (which he can''t really do) and then try to cross (which he can''t do). All I want is for our fullbacks to overlap when given the chance, it''s no good saying ''people have to cover for him because its teamwork'' because it shouldn''t be Whitts'' job to go on individual runs with no one behind him; as the Bournemouth game showed, Grabban is not a defender.

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