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England and the small crowds

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''England may continue to play in front of small crowds during their Euro 2016 qualifying campaign, says Roy Hodgson.''

The reason we have small crowds is because we are rubbish, and I can''t see that changing in the close future either.

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Oh for an edit button - I''m trying to do several things at once and failing on all fronts.

''Manager Hodgson said: "We''ll find it hard to bring attendances back to very high levels because the opponents we''re playing won''t excite the public." ''

No Roy. It''s because we are cack.

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I blame that annoying fcuking "official England band". They are enough to drive any fan away with their droning repetitive untuneful rubbish. If they are there when we play Wednesday I will personally stick their trumpets up their ar$es!

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You are completely right that England are cack, but if you look a little deeper, I think people are finally realising that our players are not only cack, but they just do not get anywhere near the level of other nation''s players and therefore won''t be able to compete. Even against those who we may have previously deemed as weaker opposition such as Switzerland. Our players are only playing for England because they are English, not because they are any good, and 9 times out of 10 play for one of the "Big Clubs", and only have to set foot on the pitch once for their club. You don''t even have to be that good to play for England which is such an awful state to be in and why people are starting to switch off from it all. You only really have to look at the amount of non interest clubs like Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan and the like have in English players. It''s because they are all average at best and would not get a game for any of these clubs. I think if we look at Germany for how they dealt with their demise, we could learn so much.

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Another couple of observations about the lack of interest in yesterday evening’s game

My wife works in an area where there are event parking notices if there’s something going at Wembley. They were not in operation yesterday.

I needed to drive past the end of the road where the Torch pub is (left out of Wembley Park station) as I picked my daughter up from playing golf. There was no little or no traffic and only saw a handful of supporters walking to the ground. This was around 6.30pm.

My twitter timeline, normally full of comments whilst England are playing was very much quieter than usual.

As for me, I watched 30 minutes of the first half then switched it off.

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And just seen on twitter: -

Audience for England''s soggy display against Norway? 4.5m.

The Great British Bake Off was watched by 8.3m.

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I think what disappoints me is that it''s clear we had the players to be a good team, but yet end up with the same $hit. Midfield is probably where we fall

Joe Hart - 3rd best keeper in the hardest league in the world

Johnson- RB in a team that finished 2nd in the hardest league in the world

Cahill- Perhaps the 3rd best defender in the PL, a rock at the back

Jones - Man U CB, tall and strong at the back

Baines- Is one of the best LB''s in the world for Everton

Sterling- Key part of Liverpool''s team, fantastic young talent

Gerrard- Liverpool''s captain, will go down in liverpool legend

Wilshere- great technical ability, if fit, a regular for arsenal

Henderson- Liverpool regular who finished 2nd

The Ox- Arsenal youngster who''s got the speed, a bit like walcott, but more end product

Sturridge- Liverpool striker, selfish with the ball, but scores a lot

Rooney- paid £250,000 a week for a reason in Man U''s eyes

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Joe Hart - 3rd best keeper in the hardest league in the world - possibly behind the best defence in the league and is rarely tested, when he is is often prone to errors

Johnson- RB in a team that finished 2nd in the hardest league in the world - Has more involvement going forwards for Liverpool than defending

Cahill- Perhaps the 3rd best defender in the PL, a rock at the back - Good player, lacks pace

Jones - Man U CB, tall and strong at the back - Not good enough, Man Utd are where they are due to their defence in the last 15 months, coincidence that Jones has been playing?

Baines- Is one of the best LB''s in the world for Everton - Club player with decent free kick and no pace

Sterling- Key part of Liverpool''s team, fantastic young talent - excellent prospect and one bright light for the future

Gerrard- Liverpool''s captain, will go down in liverpool legend - Best game for England was the 5-1 v Germany, how many years ago?!!

Wilshere- great technical ability, if fit, a regular for arsenal -

Henderson- Liverpool regular who finished 2nd - If anyone describes Henderson they always say he has great athletic ability, in other words a bit of a forredt gump!

The Ox- Arsenal youngster who''s got the speed, a bit like walcott, but more end product - End product, think I must have missed it

Sturridge- Liverpool striker, selfish with the ball, but scores a lot - Great player with Suarez pulling opposition defences all over the place, on his own he looks lost

Rooney- paid £250,000 a week for a reason in Man U''s eyes - England captain!! Really??? How is he even in the 11. He is allegedly Englands star player. Would any other top 20 nation swap their star for Rooney?

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Not sure I''d see Cahill as a "rock". He''s good but if you look at some of the defending in Brazil and then a couple of moments at last night it doesn''t point towards him being a really great defender. Joe Hart''s goalkeeping in Brazil was very poor but it seems we just have to accept that nobody gets a chance while he''s around and we all pretend he''s the business.

 

As for Jones, I think he''s got a shot and I''d probably see him as the best defender at Utd now (depending on what Rojo is like). But he is a bit injury prone which obviously causes a problem for his progression but also a problem in creating a solid/settled defence around him.

 

Further up the pitch, and as I mentioned on the other thread, with the likes of Sturridge, Welbeck, AOC and Sterling you''ve got a real chance of hurting the opposition. The more games that lot play together the better.

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I agree oracle, we have a team that only play well for their clubs, although I do think Joe Hart used to be a fantastic GK a few seasons ago, he''s definitely gone off the boil in the last 2 seasons though.

In response to GJP, I would consider Cahill a ''rock'' (as I put it) as he''s reliable in a chelsea shirt; he was great last season playing alongside Terry. In an England shirt however, just like everyone else, the performances aren''t there

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The way I see it Miggins is the players just dont have the same pride in wearing the England shirt. How many of our players belt out the national anthem before the game? Just watch the successful teams and every player to a man actually sings with passion instead of moving their lips in time with the music.

What needs to be done about it I do not know but you will not get the crowds through the door until you have a team of players willing to put it on the line. In this way it is no different to watching City!

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and the more people who buy a Sky Subscription, the more they drive the knife into the heart of the English Game.

in 10 years we''ll be accepting qualification as success...

in 20 we will whistfully think back to the days england used to travel accross the world, taking on the elite at tournaments... sitting at home watching them all on the TV.. whilst "the best league in the world (t) (RM) (C)" continues its murder of the english game...

 

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You couldn''t pay me to go watch that sh!te. Overpaid to55ers from teams I don''t like putting in half arsed performances against mostly inferior but much more motivated and better organised sides...I have no interest in the national side or international football what so ever.

I''m really enjoying the season so far, now we have to suffer a stupid 2 week break for this crap with the possibility of picking up yet more friggin injuries

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Players get paid £250k per week by their clubs.

These clubs make investments in these assets of upwards of £100m.

The FA pay nominal insurance if these assets get injured.

The clubs are billion pound businesses, lending their assets for free, assets which may come back damaged.

Agents may have a single HNW client.

The English game is financially far ahead of other leagues, however educationally, developmentally and tactically it is far, far behind.

Our helter skelter approach leads to more chances, goals and attacking play than other leagues. When players from other cultures revert to playing for their country, they play a more considered tactical game that is natural to them.

Our helter skelter approach does not translate to international football (it may also increase likelihood of injury.

A scary possibility may be (alluded to in the Suarez-Sturridge) analysis, is that our players actually look better than they are, because they are carried by superior foreign talent.

The combination of these factors lead to the status quo of the England Team.

...io tifo per l''Italia....

Parma

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A good summary Parma, and I agree with these issues especially the Sturridge/Suarez comparison. I bet everyone on this board can think of an English player made to look good by an overseas counterpart!

 

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I''m not sure I buy the inferior players things completely. I sure agree that we don''t have many right at the top level. But there aren''t that many in the Suarez/Messi/Ronaldo mould. Those guys are the peak of the peak.

But I do think we have some decent players, although at the moment not the strength in depth which is desirable.

But other teams in Brazil had on paper inferior squads but better teams. Who was not cheering on Chile and Colombia and even Algeria showed attacking flair and creativity. These teams looked better than us, but I am sceptical that they had better players.

Roy Hodgson is, in my opinion, only England manager because there was no one else credible to the FA. But I believe that the qualifications for England manager essentially come down to:

1. tactical and organisational understanding

2. motivation skills

So why, to so many, do we have to have someone who has won trophies, "managed at the highest level", has the grey hairs of experience and so on? The England job seems to me so different from club management that there is almost no correlation.

We consistently fail to look better than the sum of our parts, which is in my opinion down to bad management and a failure in one or both of the above criteria.

Other teams have prima donnas, players on big wages and "difficult" characters, plus journeymen yet perform better. If they can do it then so should we.

Getting back to the OP, I am staggered at Hodgson''s arrogant attitude about qualifiers and Norway. Going to see England should be a treat and something to look forward to regardless of the opposition but the team has so woefully underperformed that it has driven people away. Would they have got any more for a so-called top team? I''m not so sure. Hodgson has created a dull and lifeless team, almost in the mould of dear old Chris Hughton, that few have any expectations of any more than this. There has been no progression since the dark closing of the Capello regime. We had 2 shots on target last night against the world no 53, probably about the same we had against Costa Rica when we needed to go out with a bang against a team who had already qualified and strolled through our game quite comfortably.

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From odd blogs and online journo`s it is becoming clear that the agreements between the ECA, FIFA and UEFA are coming to a head over player release and club compensation.It looks as though the major European clubs ( as represented by ECA) have finally had enough of releasing their assets (players) for insufficient compensation both in terms of time and in cases of any injuries suffered.You want our players for your tournaments?  - you need to pay a lot more FIFA/UEFA and we dont care if you kick us out of your competitions, we are big enough to start our own, at least that is the threat .The current agreement finished just after the World Cup and clubs are looking for a much bigger cut of the £2 billion profit that FIFA made.Is this the beginning of the end for FIFA?This is just one interesting article amongst many on the subject.http://www.insideworldfootball.com/matt-scott/15081-matt-scott-when-money-can-t-buy-peace-how-history-tells-us-a-football-revolutions-is-afoot

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

and the more people who buy a Sky Subscription, the more they drive the knife into the heart of the English Game.

in 10 years we''ll be accepting qualification as success...

in 20 we will whistfully think back to the days england used to travel accross the world, taking on the elite at tournaments... sitting at home watching them all on the TV.. whilst "the best league in the world (t) (RM) (C)" continues its murder of the english game...

 

[/quote] So true , so sad. The English game continues to surrender its identity and soul.

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I did not realise that RH had been manager of England since 1966. Either that or England''s performance is down to factors a little more complicated than one individual.

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To be honest I''ve lost a lot of interest in England games since Hodgson took over. The majority of our games are boring and lack any sort of free-flowing football despite some of the quality players that we have in our squad.

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We aren''t rubbish... What on earth gives you that idea?

It''s hilarious when people start saying England are rubbish.

And Sterling/Sturridge are very very exciting. As is Lallana, Barklay, Ox and a few others. So many football fans have to be so negative, it''s just pointless.

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At least the small crowds mean less money for the FA ==> some motivation to fix the problem.Maybe it''s time to move to a system of central contracts for the England team?Or for the English league to copy the German model and have the FA take over the club''s academies.I know the clubs wouldn''t like it, but surely the FA would be able to find some sanction if they won''t cooperate - maybe asking UEFA to exclude English clubs from Europe until the clubs do as they''re told?If that takes money out of the Premiership and makes clubs less attractive as toys for oligarchs, I would see that as a good thing.

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Last time I went it was the disgusting behaviour of England''s fans that put me off. Took the wife - won''t waste my time or money again. Thoroughly unpleasant bunch, not like an afternoon with the Norwich crowd.

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Passion & Pride.

The players are lined up at the start of every game and forced to sing a song about God saving our glorified tourist attraction.

God save our Queen? 90% of English footballers couldn''t give a t*ss about the Queen. Does the Queen care about me? No. Do I care about the Queen? No. I don''t wish nothing bad upon her but she means as much to me as my neighbour 5 doors down the road. In fact the said neighbour probably means more.

Secondly.. England''s a shithole. How many players are proud and passionate of/about this country?

This is our problem.

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[quote user="STAN"]Passion & Pride.

The players are lined up at the start of every game and forced to sing a song about God saving our glorified tourist attraction.

God save our Queen? 90% of English footballers couldn''t give a t*ss about the Queen. Does the Queen care about me? No. Do I care about the Queen? No. I don''t wish nothing bad upon her but she means as much to me as my neighbour 5 doors down the road. In fact the said neighbour probably means more.

Secondly.. England''s a shithole. How many players are proud and passionate of/about this country?

This is our problem.[/quote]Are you are Oliver Cromwell in disguise?

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So we change the national anthem and our players suddenly become world class. Genius

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