I'm now a 2nd class supporter and proud!

[First Wizard 0]

Since I had to stop going to games for medical reasons, I, like other posters on here, are now rated as second class fans, by the some of the supporters who do go to Carrow Road these days.

Our opinions carry less weight it would seem (according to Dicky and Beds Canary anyway!) and despite a stunning rebuff to them by Yankee Canary, it still going on.

To these self appointed ''''elite'' I''ll say this: Already this season I''ve spent well in excess of £100 on merchandise in the club shop, should I stop my support to the club that way?.

I watch highlights on tv, on line and listen to commentaries on the radio to form an opinion on City today, hell, I even read your bloody threads, and I hear ''elite'' people like you booing the players at a ground where I and others never booed them ever!.

As YC said, there are many like me, some who can''t even get or afford tickets, people who have to work on matchdays, the infirm, old, and hard up. But we all share a love affair with our great club, most of us have put in our time standing in the driving rain, when the river end, really meant the river end!.

And yet you still refer to our views, as less valid. How dare you!. 

If that makes us second class, so be it. We are City fans and proud, I can''t speak for the ''lesser mortals'' who cant get to FCR, but I''m proud of my support to City through the years, home and away.

And if you question that support or belittle it in any way, are you sure you''re supporting the right club?.

[nobbyg 0]

You are unbelievable.  You are not a second class supporter but you are a sulky child.

The point we are making (again) is that your opinion on Andy Hughes or the teams performance or other such likes is not as informed as someone (like me) who sat on a plastic seat for 270 minutes and watched three home games in 8 days.

You can have all the opinions you like on Worthington, etc, etc but you haven''t seen us play this season.  We could quite easily have anywhere from 1 to 9 points. Yes we should have more points but it is not the managers fault or Fleming''s or anybodys.  It is just the way it has gone.

Well done for spending £100 on merchandise - I have only managed £45. One home shirt less 10% discount and three home programmes. 

Does the Inter game and accompanying programme (£12) count in my total.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]You are unbelievable. You are not a second class supporter but you are a sulky child. The point we are making (again) is that your opinion on Andy Hughes or the teams performance or other such likes...[/quote]

Sheer bloody arrogance!.

I rest my case.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

Oh for crying out loud Nobby - you and your ilk are really beginning to annoy me.  So what if you go to the games and have the joy/luck of watching Andy Hughes.   It doesn''t make your comments on his performance any more worthy than mine or 1st Wiz or Morph or any other of us exiles/ex-regular attendees.

 

So as far as you''re concerned it''s no-ones fault that we haven''t won yet - that''s just the way the cookie crumbles is it?

 

That''s a really thoughtful insight - there was me thinking that as you''d proudly attended every game, you might have some useful insight into the performance of the team - but, hey that obviously doesn''t matter to you as, well you win some and you lose some...it''s nothing to do with the team or the manager....

 

Personally speaking I rely on the TV for my view of the games - they say the camera never lies so it''s pretty easy to comment on players performances - especially when it comes to making crucial errors.

 

Stop this puerile "I''m better than you" nonsense now.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

Chill out Wiz. I haven''t been to any games this season and living away only get to see the most mediocre of highlights, I don''t believe I or anyone else is a second class supporter for that and hope that most others wouldn''t either. However, I do think that the opinion of those that have been to the games is more valid about team/player performances than mine and as such won''t be calling for Worthy''s head after 3 games!! All that''s important is that you care and that makes you a top supporter as you obviously do. You''re quite clearly insane but hey ;-)

[nobbyg 0]

I am sorry you are right - those 30 second highlights on The Championship on Sunday morning must have covered every angle and pass for you.

Worthington has made every change most of wanted - Shackell in, Colin in and Safri in all as quick reactions to poor performances and problems. 

Three great saves from Coventrys goalkeeper.

A mix of bad finishing and bad luck against Crewe.

Not getting the second goal when we were playing well in the first 35 mins against Palace.

All of these things happen.  We can''t win because our fans have a stronger will for it on internet message boards.

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote]I am sorry you are right - those 30 second highlights on The Championship on Sunday morning must have covered every angle and pass for you. Worthington has made every change most of wanted - Shackell...[/quote]

Good point, I certainly wont be able to rate the players with what they offer on canaries world, and I dont fancy regurgitating what Roy Waller has had to say. Ill have to rely on Zippers ratings I guess.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I have to agree with Nobby on this one. It does not make you a second class supporter for not attending games however by the same token you are also not in as good a position to give an informed view on how players are performing as those who have seen every minute they have played this season.

As an example Fleming gets 6 or 7 out of 10 in every paper after every game which might lead people who do not go to think he is performing solidly. However anyone (well anyone but Worthy it seems) who watched him last season would have immediately been able to tell you that thos efigures are not a true reflection and that he was out of his depth for a lot of the time.

[Trent Canary 0]

" Oh for crying out loud Nobby - you and your ilk are really beginning to annoy me.  So what if you go to the games and have the joy/luck of watching Andy Hughes.   It doesn''t make your comments on his performance any more worthy than mine or 1st Wiz or Morph or any other of us exiles/ex-regular attendees."

Untrue Im afraid. Speaking as someone that is a season ticket, but an exile most of the season it has to be said that my comments are less worthy than people that have attended games. All I will have to go on (As I have said in a previous post) is a couple of highlights on canaries world, Roy Waller, and all the other posters. I will make comments, but without first-hand evidence I will just merely be basing my remarks on what other people have had to say.

Unless of course you have TV coverage of every minute of every game, in which case Id love to know how! Those Danish TV channels again

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote]Oh for crying out loud Nobby - you and your ilk are really beginning to annoy me. So what if you go to the games and have the joy/luck of watching Andy Hughes. It doesn''t make your comments on his ...[/quote]

"So what if you go to the games and have the joy/luck of watching Andy Hughes.   It doesn''t make your comments on his performance any more worthy than mine or 1st Wiz or Morph or any other of us exiles/ex-regular attendees."

of course it does! That''s like saying my review of the Oasis album that I haven''t heard is just as valid and useful as someone else''s who has cos i might have heard a couple of snippits and have read other people''s reviews. Just what are you basing your comments on if you haven''t seen him? I value the comments of those that go on footballing matters more than those that don''t. That being said there''s clearly value in the comments of us exiles on many matters and some utter tosh written by those that do attend every game!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]I am sorry you are right - those 30 second highlights on The Championship on Sunday morning must have covered every angle and pass for you. Worthington has made every change most of wanted - Shackell...[/quote]

Guess what Nobby?.

If the God Roy Waller yells ''great save by the Coventry keeper'' in his 90 minute commentries!, then what do you think that tells me?.

Or better still, Neil ''Shoes'' Adams says ''that goal was Hucks fault'', in other words they are there at the game, just like you claim to be!.

And if I, and maybe others, had to chose between Adam''s version of events or yours, guess who I''d chose?.

That''s right, Neil Adams every time!.

So I consider myself just as informed as you, if not more, after all, ''Shoes'' is looking at the game an ex pro, and you''re not!.

[sxcanaree 0]

"Personally speaking I rely on the TV for my view of the games - they say the camera never lies so it''s pretty easy to comment on players performances - especially when it comes to making crucial errors."

 

Of course the camera lies thats what it is there for. If the Television was as accurate we would all sit at home and watch it.

 

I''m sure anyone watching "The Championship" on Sunday could tell what a cracker Ashton''s goal was - after all ITV didn''t even deem it worthy enough to show the ball actually hitting the back of the net!

 

Being a remote supporter it is only recently that I have started attending games on a regular basis and the difference between the view that a TV director has decided you should see or a radio commentary (even with or without Roy Waller) is amazing.

 

The point I am making is that everyone will always see things differently - I personally agree with Huck''s statement today - soon we will hammer someone into the ground - sure we haven''t won a game and there have been some atrocious mistakes but some of the passing moves that have broken down before a shot has been fired have been sublime - you will not have seen these on a highlights show.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and those in the ground will always be different to those of the remote supporter - when opining on the players or manager we should be more open and provide the background on which our opinion is given.

 

So for my comment above I''ve watched a game televised live in a corporate box at a ground and the pictures on the screen only told 10% of the game story in front of me.

 

OTBC

[Trent Canary 0]

" I value the comments of those that go on footballing matters more than those that don''t. That being said there''s clearly value in the comments of us exiles on many matters and some utter tosh written by those that do attend every game!"

Bingo, well said.

Wiz - Monday in the EDP one of the columnists said that Deano and Leon were playing well and looked sharp. The Sunday express gave Dean a 9 with an MOM award, whilst shacks got a 6. I dont believe them!

As for Neil Adams, his stance on Gary Holt and Iwan Roberts (Just two examples) means his opinion isnt accurate as far as im concerned, but thats because Ive seen them play and beg to differ.

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote]Guess what Nobby?. If the God Roy Waller yells ''great save by the Coventry keeper'' in his 90 minute commentries!, then what do you think that tells me?. Or better still, Neil ''Shoes'' Adams says ''tha...[/quote]

I can just see it now..

"And now its time for Canary call with Neil Adams, first on the line is 1st Wizard.."

"Hello Neil, how are you?."

"Im not too bad, fire away"

"May I first thank you for your excellent commentary today, I couldnt get to the game... etc"

Sorry, its just your last post reminded me of the token elderly person that rings up every week thanking Neil for his commentary, because it obviously isnt his job to do that every game. Only avin a larf

[nobbyg 0]

Adams thought that the goal was Hucks fault - Worthy seemed to blame Green. Interesting.

Granted Adams has decent views on the games and that is why CanaryCall is such a riot - when people with strong opinions who haven''t been to the game ring up and are shot down.

Neil Adams has a more informed opinion both having been a player and having watched the game.

I myself have only watched the game.  But I have watched Norwich loads of times and know when we play well and when we don''t.  I don''t have to be an ex pro to compare us to last year or Walkers teams or ect etc.

If listening to Adams makes you more informed than me then so be it - as long as you only ever reflect his opinions on the games and teams and players performances.  He hasn''t advocated Worthy out or any other drivel so then neither should you.

I wouldn''t base your opinions on Waller though - if you know where the ball is at anytime you are doing well.....oh it''s in the back of the net. 

Opinions cannot be correct - but the word you keep missing is informed. 

The new Oasis album is rubbish - haven''t heard it though - just basing my opinion on Be Here Now (a poor performance I saw on TV in 1998 when they played for Reading).

The new Oasis album is rubbish - haven''t heard it though - just basing my opinion on Be Here Now.

[Birchington Yellow 0]

Booorrrriiinnngg

Think the time has come for a new forum " Norwich City - pointless self centred circular arguments" The place for all ego maniacs to snipe continually about each other.

[Trent Canary 0]

"I''m sure anyone watching "The Championship" on Sunday could tell what a cracker Ashton''s goal was - after all ITV didn''t even deem it worthy enough to show the ball actually hitting the back of the net!"

Yep, I assume they would have showed his very well taken goal. But did they show the many occasions where he lost the ball? I doubt it. I can only assume the Express reporter only caught that part too!

[Evil Monkey 52]

During our Promotion season my girlfriend of the time came along to quite a few games with me (yes, she was jumping on the wagon a little, but I didn''t mind too much since she was also jumping on my wagon... oh dear, did I say that out loud???)

Anyway, we used to go back to hers after yet another home win, with some brilliant displays, to find her Dad, who had listened to Roy, saying how rubbish the game was and we didn''t deserve to be at the top of the league.

Guess which one of us had the more informed opinion on the matter?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Adams thought that the goal was Hucks fault - Worthy seemed to blame Green. Interesting. Granted Adams has decent views on the games and that is why CanaryCall is such a riot - when people with stron...[/quote]

You seem to forget Nobby, that only 5 short months ago approx, I was there with you so to speak, trust me when I make an opinion on Worthy or the team, its based on the same recent criteria you are using, minus a few games I''ll grant you, its just that I didn''t boast about it back then!.

And don''t be arrogant in thinking I can''t follow a game by radio well enough to form a valid opinion, millions do every Saturday mate.

[Saint Canary 0]

Quite frankly, who cares if you were at the game or not and who is the better informed?  

Whether you were there, listening on the radio, watching live on TV it does not make right and someone else wrong! 

[Tumbleweed 106]

I think what Nobby and Trent are saying is that if you are at the game you can make your own mind up having a view of everything that happens right in front of your eyes.

If you rely on TV or radio you have to rely on what is said and how it is described and the camera angles. What you can''t always get is who is making runs off the ball, who is closing down whom, and get a good idea of the flow of the game.

The Palace goal could be:

(1) Greens fault for a duff throw

(2) Hux fault for miscontrolling it

(3) a great piece of anticipation and skill from their winger

(4) a mysterious gust of wind blowing the ball to Andy Johnson who miskicks it into the goal when aiming for touch.

Now if you are at the game you make your own call. If not you rely on Adams/Waller/Zebedee or whoever to tell you.

That''s all.

It makes nobody a second or first class supporter, but nobody can deny that being there has to be better than not.

[Wandering Someplace West 0]

It has to be put quite bluntly - Nobby you truly are talking out of where the sun don''t shine.

Being a Norfolk exile, I will be lucky to make 1/2 games at Carrow Road this season. With work / family / other commitments (some of us do have them) I am aiming to make about half a dozen away games.

Don''t you dare tell me, or Wiz, or anybody else, that because we don''t see every ball kicked, that our opinions are less valid.

I''m assuming you have an opinion on how well David Beckham and Michael Owen have done in Spain? Correct? Is that based on your attendence at every Real Madrid game?

Dross, I''m afraid Nobby, utter dross.

When I queued for tickets in the snow at 6am during the European run and been a fraction from getting arrested  or trampled under a horse during the Chase protest, it sickens me that you can even come out with such insulting and arrogant squit.

Enjoy your cloud cuckoo season ticket my friend. 

 

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote]I think what Nobby and Trent are saying is that if you are at the game you can make your own mind up having a view of everything that happens right in front of your eyes. If you rely on TV or radio y...[/quote]

Well said Tumbleweed, summed up very nicely. Your right in that there is no such thing as "2nd class supporters" as Wiz has come up with. The only issue ive raised is the fact that you cant comment using firsthand evidence on player performances in specific games if your not there, and that your basing your opinion on what other people have said.  As I stated I say all this as someone that''s a season ticket, yet will spend most the season in Nottingham and wont get to many games!

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

another post by 1st wizard about 1st Wizard. yawn yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Big A 0]

Regardless of the nature of the topic (which BTW i think is pretty pathetic) I think Nobby had it spot on in the first sentence of his first reply.Wiz, you need to relax, you constantly trigger arguments and they are largely based around you feeling as though you are being attacked by other posters. To me if anything is arrogant (a line you keep throwing at Nobby)in this thread it is the nature of the topic and the person who started it!I haven''t been to a game this season as i''m back off to Uni in 3 weeks which is why i have stayed out of posting in threads regarding the Likes of Hughes/ Louis etc. I read with interest the views of those that have watched them however.I personally don''t care how other fans view my support for the team, couldn''t care less. I love the team, always will but if someone questioned my support on an internet messageboard i certainly wouldn''t feel attacked, certianly not enough to start another self-centred thread. Some people love you, some people hate you, thats comes with the territory of posting argumentative topics on the internet which are likely to evoke a response (something you like to do), deal with it.Once again its turning into the ''1st Wizad Show''Cue a change of identity................

[FatMan Fat 0]

Good old, Wiz - stirring it up as ever

I too am an ex River End supporter when it was open terracing and before graduating to a "Barclay Boot Boy" when it was OK to be a hooligan

Any one who has put that amount of time in has a perfect right to call themselves a "First Class Supporter"...however, it does make a certain amount of sense that people who can get to the matches are in a position to give a more informed opinion than those who rely on 3rd parties.  Equally, the opinions of those who cannot get to matches are still valid as there is a mass of information out there for those who are interested in the Club.

Other than that, just plagiarize Zipper/Morph/Tumbleweed as they make more sense than most

[ncfc4eva 0]

why create this thread? you knew it would cause conflict and arguments....

i think the point here is that people are saying you get a better view and reaction of the game if you go.
   And to me that is fact rather than listening to it on a radio. it is better to watch a game with your eyes rather than listen to a radio.
i know personally i would not be able to make as good''a judgement as others if i had not gone to the game and they had.... to over react like you 1st wiz...and saying that people are branding you a second class supporter is untrue.


Surely you yourself would admit that you would be able to make a better reflection of the game and give fairer player ratings if you had SEEN the whole 90 minutes yourself??????

[At last? 0]

Sense from Tumbleweed at last.

Oh well at least we can always rely on good old England to put on a good show. David James, top keeper 100% reliable.

Well we sounded good on the radio anyway

[BedsCanary 0]

Wiz, you''re not a 2nd class supporter because you don''t go to the games, your a 2nd class supporter because you advocate the sacking/replacement of everyone whenever anything goes wrong. Football is football, Norwich will never win every game and Norwich will not always be top of the league handing out spankings.

[ronbol ronbol 0]

Been thinking about this thread long and hard.
I think it does make a difference if you attend the game or not. Totally relying on dodgy TV highlight coverage or Neil Adams commentary can never really give you that accurate view of proceedings.
Has anyone ever tried listening to Neil and CO and watching the game, sometimes makes me wonder if we are watching the same game.
Nothing can make up for attending a game. So i suppose yes 1st wizard is a 2nd class supporter.
but before everyone shoots me down let me say this......
I do not attend away games (well maybe the odd one 40 miles up the road!) I take my hat off to all those supporters that travel up and down the country every single week. They certainly are more dedicated than me. I would not for one minute stand in front of them and argue the match that they had seen live and I had picked up off the radio. you simply can not compare the two. So in my book the regular away supporters are the 1st class supporters the rest are a mere 2nd.

Sorry..... just an opinion............