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Unhinged Canary

Russell Martin

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"Germany forward outjumps Russell Martin and Alan Hutton to put the world champions ahead "

"Scotland are not that big at the back and it is not a sophisticated goal, it is not complicated"

Oh well, I suppose Strachan knows what he is doing, but that was all too predictable...

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Russ Martin as CB is such a liability, as mentioned several times on this forum, by people with a little more than basic football knowledge.

Sadly he lacks the physical frame (both height and muscle) and pace to be a good CB, and I think Neyuuul has adressed this problem with his recent CB aquisitions.

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Muller is one of the best forwards in World Football and has made much better players than RM look silly. From what I saw he had a decent game and made some very important blocks.

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Yeah, Russ Martin is the only CB who is sometimes outjumped/loses out to attackers, especially when playing against the World Cup winners.

I seem to recall that a lot of top quality defenders struggled against the Germans not so long ago also.

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I get the point, but this time last year, Snodgrass was outjumping Dejan Lovren to head the Scots into the lead. I suppose none of you would take Lovren at Norwich?

Let''s just be proud that 2 of our players were involved in a performance of epic grit and will. Hopefully they bring that work ethic back to Norwich.

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RM took over the armband when Fletcher went off, so is such a liability, as some think, that his international manager appoints him capt (vice) and has anyone actually noticed that since RM has been playing regularly for Scotland they have become a force to be reckoned with, and as a team possibly performing above the sum of their parts. If he had been NCFC captain last season, I''m quite certain we would have stayed up, still if my uncle was my auntie..............

So, Strachan plays him and gives him responsibility, NA does the same, as did other managers before him. May be, just may be, he brings something the professional managers see that some on here don''t??

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[quote user="Ray"]RM took over the armband when Fletcher went off, so is such a liability, as some think, that his international manager appoints him capt (vice) and has anyone actually noticed that since RM has been playing regularly for Scotland they have become a force to be reckoned with, and as a team possibly performing above the sum of their parts. If he had been NCFC captain last season, I''m quite certain we would have stayed up, still if my uncle was my auntie..............

So, Strachan plays him and gives him responsibility, NA does the same, as did other managers before him. May be, just may be, he brings something the professional managers see that some on here don''t??[/quote]

For some people "He''s a right back" and that''s it.  He could lead us to the championship as a CB and there will still be people saying he would have been better playing at right-back.....  

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I don''t like Martin as a CB and he''s very weak in the air, but it seems a little harsh in this instance. He''s not the first defender to be out leapt by Muller and he won''t be the last.

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Whilst I agree with the sentiment that conceding to the world champions is no shameful thing, if ''Scotland to concede from a high ball not dealt with particularly well by Russell Martin'' was a betting market I would have lumped on it and made a tidy sum.

The commentators even noted that Germany aren''t usually a big crossing side but were appearing to target that as a specific weak point last night. I like Russ Mart but must admit I am baffled that he plays CB for both my club and my country with such a glaring blind spot in his attributes.

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Cheers ldc,

It is obvious many don''t rate him as a CB and some not as a RB, but, and an important but it is, Strachan, NA and others before him do. These guys are the professionals, they make their living selecting teams, and may I say both are doing pretty well, so may be, just may be, they see something many on here do not. I happen to agree with thge professionals, I think we are lucky to have such a versatile player, particularly one that brings such leadership qualities. My opinion only of course but it proves me right to me!!

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The fact that Strachan made Martin captain after Fletcher went off is likely based upon the fact that Martin is captain at Norwich.

International manager base a lot of their decisions on the work/situation in the club teams, as they dont see the players very often, and can not micro-manage.

So, when Martin was appointed captain at Norwich, he rose up the ranks at the Scottish national team as well. Chain of events.

Imho, his performances does not warrant the armbind, not for Norwich, and not for Scotland either. I think a captain should lead by example, and Martin is not doing this.

I do respect, however, that other people, and those in power, think better of him than I do :)

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For me he''s our very own Gary Neville (not as good obviously).

He has all the intelligence and influence needed as well as technical ability to play centre back, he just could do with a bit more height. I''d rather he stuck to right back normally, especially in the championship where a lot of teams will play ''up and under'' football. I miss the Russell Martin that used to maraud up the other end and score quite regularly. He plays CB for Scotland because of a lack of options in my view.

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grefstad,

Not sure (nay certain I don''t) agree with your captain take on things, Strachan has spent 24/7 with Russ all last week, plus of course all the other times he has played him, and I''m sure Strachan is a man who forms his own opinions. The captain role was an important one last night, possibly more so than normal and Strachan wouldn''t in effect let NA choose his captain (s).

I also think Russ does lead by example, however this can take many forms. RM is not tall for a CB, he can do bu**er all about that, but he can play more in the Bobby Moore style (not suggesting he is as good as Bobby Moore) but plays the space, often being in the right place at the right time, to a) stop/block a forward/winger playing a particular ball, which by definition is difficult to spot, because if the attacker doesn;t play the ball then there is nothing to see, and b) to make the physical block, which he does quite often. I agree therefore he is not the type of player who goes diving in with his head or otherwise, but plays the ''blocking'' game more intelligently than many. Does this mean he is sometimes beaten in the air, yes, after all that is what highly paid forwards are paid to do, if they didn''t they wouldn''t be highly paid!

I like him at CB and I like him at RB, and I know the other players respect him as a damn good leader, so I bow to their opinion and those of GS and NA, that''s not to say I would be surprised if he appeared at RB, because I wouldn''t be, especially given all the specialist CB''s we have now.

All that said I too respect others'' opinions, and thank goodness they differ, be bl**dy boring otherwise.

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People have based this whole myth about Martin being too small to be a centre back (despite being only marginally shorter than Bennett) on the goal conceded at Wolves. Martin has the strength and the pace to be a great centre back and he rarely lets us down when he plays in that position. People who have formed their opinion on Martin clearly missed the aerial bombardment he and Turner dealt with at Ipswich and against Blackburn.

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According to the canaries.co.uk official site, Martin is actually significantly taller and heavier than Ryan Bennett? Find that difficult to believe...

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My issues with Martin as a CB (infact, as a RB too) are:

1. He has lost at least a yard of pace in the last 2 seasons, maybe more.

2. He lacks the height and presence to play CB, espescially in the Champ. His pace is more a worry in the Prem.

3. He backs off too often and too much, leaving space for the attacker, to cover himself as he knows he is likely to be caught for pace otherwise. This creates problems for his fellow defenders, as creative players with space will kill you with passes or shots. This problem is also evident with Whittaker. Both Martin and Whittaker leaves a lot of space in front of them, too often. This was very visible in the Premiership.

4. Because of his other flaws as a CB, he is often made to do desperate last-ditch blocks to keep forwards away from scoring. Good centrebacks should not be relying on last-ditch blocks very often. Martin does. It is a positional thing. Obviously, being able to make these blocks is a good thing, but being able to prevent himself from having to do them is better.

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[quote user="I.S."]According to the canaries.co.uk official site, Martin is actually significantly taller and heavier than Ryan Bennett? Find that difficult to believe...[/quote]Its true.RM  -  1.86mRB   -  1.81mMyths, eh?And btw, Grant Holt was never overweight [;)]

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So is he still regarded as the Norfolk Cafu ? Personally I think hes a very good right back and has proved he is more than capable of playing Centre Back also.

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ellis206,

It is a fact he is our shortest CB, 1" shorter that RB and 3 inches shorter that the others, however he is one of the fittest and strongest players at NCFC that I have on very good authority, so I agree with your strength and pace comment.

Also very often CB''s come in pairs, one better in the air and one better on the ground and I go back to Bobby Moore and Jackie Charlton to make the point, and they did OK. We don''t need both CB''s going for the same ball, ideally we want one winning it and one sweeping up behind if he doesn''t. Doesn''t always work that way of course but if we have two players going for the same ball it leaves someone somewhere unmarked and/or a space for the ball to fall into.

With the ball at his feet he is probably the best CB we have, as can be demonstrated by his forages forward more recently, so if NA wants to play two CB''s who complement each other then RM would probably be selected on a regular basis. If he doesn''t and wants two guys to dominate the aerial battles then 2 of our 6''4" will probably be selected.

I agree between them MT and RM did pretty well against Ipswich and Balckburn and imo that was achieved predominantly by the good cop bad cop scenario I gave above.

Either way, most managers would be delighted to have the selection choices and qualitry available to NA.

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ldc,

Wikipedia have RB as 1" taller than RM and I trust them more than the Canaries site, who I know for a fact have other facts wrong!

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[quote user="Ray"]ldc,

Wikipedia have RB as 1" taller than RM and I trust them more than the Canaries site, who I know for a fact have other facts wrong![/quote]Fair enough. They do seem to have different heights depending on where you look!  I looked on Google - the captions that came up have their heights wrong too.

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There is no doubt that Martin is rightly the club captain and the best leader,  considered and articulate we have at the club and is an asset to teh club in leading the team.  

 

He is also a good defender at this level - irrespective of whether that is at right or centre back.

 

My concerns are less around height or strength in the air (he was always an attacking threat at set pieces for example so is ok) but more his positional or match sense,  he often appears to be just out of position or reacting a little too slowly to a threat (wolves and bournemouth goals being examples of this for me) and is not blessed with enough pace to rectify the positional problem.    I dont see the same frequency of error from Turner,  Bennett or Bassong.   

 

As such, I am not convinced he is either  a very good centre back,  or even the best centre back that we have at the club,  and my preference is to have the best players in their best positions. CB is a position of partnership - will turner perform best as a unit with martin or one of the new guys?   Is a new partnership of Hooiveld with Iggy going to outperform Turner and ANOther?   Its not impossible.

 

          

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[quote user="Ray"]ldc, Wikipedia have RB as 1" taller than RM and I trust them more than the Canaries site, who I know for a fact have other facts wrong![/quote]

 

Are you sure it''s not that RB is close and RM is farer away?

 

 

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Listening to talk sport yesterday afternoon and the co commentator was talking about the inexperience and changes to the Scotland back line his comments were - I''d be more worried if Russell Martin hadn''t got over his injury scare, he''s been a rock at the back for us with some outstanding performances"

this from an Ex Scotland player

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I like Russ Martin alot, however when it comes to Arial ability only a blind man couldnt tell that Ryan Bennett is better header of the ball.

There''s more to it than height, Alan Shearer wasnt the tallest but he was a lethal header of the ball even when up against much taller players.

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